Political Crossfire Forums

[John]

Quote: The Christ has been w/ the human race since its dawn. It didn't just suddenly, randomly appear in the time of Jesus. Jesus was not the first Christ and he was not the last.


I disagree with this.

I believe that Jesus is the prophecied Messiah of the Old Testament.

He is God incarnate come to Redeem mankind.

[psholtz]

John wrote: Quote: The Christ has been w/ the human race since its dawn. It didn't just suddenly, randomly appear in the time of Jesus. Jesus was not the first Christ and he was not the last.


I disagree with this.

I believe that Jesus is the prophecied Messiah of the Old Testament.

He is God incarnate come to Redeem mankind.
Christ is the Eternal Son of God.

The Christ existed before the Foundation of the Universe.

This is orthodox Christian theology..

[John]

psholtz wrote: John wrote: Quote: The Christ has been w/ the human race since its dawn. It didn't just suddenly, randomly appear in the time of Jesus. Jesus was not the first Christ and he was not the last.


I disagree with this.

I believe that Jesus is the prophecied Messiah of the Old Testament.

He is God incarnate come to Redeem mankind.
Christ is the Eternal Son of God.

The Christ existed before the Foundation of the Universe.

This is orthodox Christian theology..

Yes...the Son has always existed with the Father and the Spirit. But "Christ" is just a linguistic translation of the word Meshiach...it's a title. The Messiah will literally rule the earth as King. That will happen in the seventh dispensation...we so happen to be in the fifth.

[Duchifas]

How do you guys know everything with such precision?

[John]

Duchifas wrote: How do you guys know everything with such precision?

What do you mean?

[Duchifas]

John wrote: Duchifas wrote: How do you guys know everything with such precision?

What do you mean?

That you happen to be in the fifth dispensation.

[John]

Duchifas wrote: John wrote: Duchifas wrote: How do you guys know everything with such precision?

What do you mean?

That you happen to be in the fifth dispensation.

From reading the Bible. I could be wrong, but it's what the Bible and history seem to portray.



*

1) Innocence -- From the creation of man until the Fall
*

2) Conscience, or Moral Responsibility -- From the Fall until the flood
*

3) Human Government -- From the Flood until the call of Abram

*


4) Promise and Law -- From the call of Abram until the Exodus, to Sinai until Christ <---I think promise and Law are one dispensation of God's chosen people.

*

5) Grace -- From Pentecost until the Rapture
*

6) Tribulation -- Jacobs trouble
*

7) Kingdom -- From the second coming of Christ until the eternal state





Some people think we're in the 6th dispensation....that the Tribulation isn't a dispensation, but a transition between dispensations. And that Promise and Law are two separate dispensations. That could be true...but I'm of different opinion as of right now.

[John]

Hmmmm...

You know. Something just doesn't feel right about this being the fifth dispensation. The more I think about it....Promise and Law should be separated and the Tribulation is a transition like the Great Flood was.

Anyways...carry one...just thinking out loud here.

:lol:

Well Duchifas, I think it's safe to say we don't know everything with such precision. :wink:

[psholtz]

John wrote: But "Christ" is just a linguistic translation of the word Meshiach...it's a title.
No, it's not.

[psholtz]

Duchifas wrote: How do you guys know everything with such precision?
How do you know everything about separating your wools from your linens w/ such precision? :-D

[John]

psholtz wrote: John wrote: But "Christ" is just a linguistic translation of the word Meshiach...it's a title.
No, it's not.

It is according to Christianity.

Maybe Platonism is what you're thinking about.


Heck...you could argue that God and Lord are pagan gods. I mean "Lord" literally translated as Baal in Hebrew? It's insanity to distil linguistics down to meanings that they don't mean because of common words.

[John]

John wrote: Hmmmm...

You know. Something just doesn't feel right about this being the fifth dispensation. The more I think about it....Promise and Law should be separated and the Tribulation is a transition like the Great Flood was.

Anyways...carry one...just thinking out loud here.

:lol:

Well Duchifas, I think it's safe to say we don't know everything with such precision. :wink:

Here's a chart...

[cap'n queasy]

Cool chart.

[psholtz]

John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: But "Christ" is just a linguistic translation of the word Meshiach...it's a title.
No, it's not.

It is according to Christianity.
No, according to this strange sect of Messianic Judaism that you and Chuck Missler follow.

It's quite possible that the early Jews choose to allegorize the Christ as their "Messiah", and reading the Jewish Scriptures, I can see how this might work, but if that's the case, the later Jewish scribes (e.g., Pharisees and so forth) have *really* bungled up the whole doctrine to the point of being almost unrecognizable.

Quote: Maybe Platonism is what you're thinking about.
Platonism sure was what Jesus was thinking about..

Quote: Heck...you could argue that God and Lord are pagan gods. I mean "Lord" literally translated as Baal in Hebrew? It's insanity to distil linguistics down to meanings that they don't mean because of common words.
The "god" you worship most certainly is a pagan idol, John.

Of that I have no doubt whatsoever.

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: Cool chart.
Can you point out where on the chart the seed is sown, where the harvest is reaped and where the tares are burnt?

If you don't have that, I'm not sure the chart is legitimate.

[cap'n queasy]

If you understood what those things meant maybe you wouldn't have such difficulty placing them on the chart.

They are right there plain as day.

[Duchifas]

psholtz wrote: Duchifas wrote: How do you guys know everything with such precision?
How do you know everything about separating your wools from your linens w/ such precision? :-D

Because it is described clearly in the Torah. Hence, the precision.

Other things aren't. For example, Creation story. What exactly happened, how long it took, etc, I don't know.

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: If you understood what those things meant maybe you wouldn't have such difficulty placing them on the chart.

They are right there plain as day.
Perhaps..

But I'd wager to say that you didn't think of it in those terms until I had said something.. Which again makes me wonder what the value of the chart is.

[cap'n queasy]

Well, I would say there is probably no value in it for you. Since you are an unbeliever. Or rather a believer in a false teaching. But since you are to lazy to think for yourself I will point out where the things go on the chart for you. I will help you.

The seed is sown in the section that says "The Kingdom is at hand". These are Y'shua's teachings. He is the sower.

The harvest is reaped in the section that says the Rapture of the Church. The Church is the harvest. The fruit produced by the seed is the saved ones. The people in whose hearts the seed was able to take purchase.

And the burning of the "tares" is that big flame that is labeled the "Lake of Fire" in the bottom right corner.

BTW tares is a metaphor for false teachings and people who follow them, just so you can by aware of that fact. It's pretty simple it seems to me. Even if someone thinks the Bible is complete hogwash they should be able to figure that out. But I guess the blind are called the blind because they cannot see.

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: Well, I would say there is probably no value in it for you.
Correct, the picture is of no value to me..

Quote: Since you are an unbeliever.
Do you honestly believe that? :lol:

Quote: The seed is sown in the section that says "The Kingdom is at hand". These are Y'shua's teachings. He is the sower.
Yeshua used the metaphor of a farmer.

How do you figure that got changed into "The Kingdom is at hand?"

Quote: The harvest is reaped in the section that says the Rapture of the Church. The Church is the harvest. The fruit produced by the seed is the saved ones. The people in whose hearts the seed was able to take purchase.
Then where, friend, is the Bread of Life?

Surely the Bread of Life is the harvest that the Sower reaps..

I don't see that designated anyplace.

Quote: And the burning of the "tares" is that big flame that is labeled the "Lake of Fire" in the bottom right corner.
Yeah, I figured out *that* much.. :tu: :-D

Quote: BTW tares is a metaphor for false teachings and people who follow them, just so you can by aware of that fact. It's pretty simple it seems to me. Even if someone thinks the Bible is complete hogwash they should be able to figure that out. But I guess the blind are called the blind because they cannot see.
The tares are a metaphor for disobedience (whether conscious, or through ignorance and negligence) of God's Divine Law.