Political Crossfire Forums

[name]

"Advanced intellegence is not equal to that of a bacteria."

An embryo in the early developmental stages has the same level of advanced intelligence as a bacteria. If, in your opinion, advanced intelligence equals personhood, abortions before 2 months should be fine with you.

[Gilbert1908]

Gwijde wrote: I think you all go a bit easy over abortion.
Abortion is never a real choice; it is a last way out. Abortion is a horrible thing to experience, and if not really needed a mother would never undergo one.
Please, don't judge people who had an abortion, I can assure you, it is always a last way out. Not only for the mother to have a chance to get quality life, but also to give the child the opportunity to a quality life too (education, good job, no poverty...). If a mother doesn't see a possible way to do that, than is abortion the only way out.

On top of that, I think you are missing the point here. Instead of debating whether or not abortion is murder, think about how to PREVENT abortion!
Why is there abortion? Is today's youth not enough educated about sex? Do they have good access to condoms? What role does the government play here?

Kind regards

Abortion unfortunately is NOT ALWAYS the last way out, it has become for many a method of birth control since a very significant % of women have more than one abortion. I agree with your suggestion that the goal ought to be to find a way to make abortions unnecessary or very rare.

And the answer to your question as to why there is abortion is unfortunately far too obvious when applied to the USA. In the vast majority of cases it is a matter of irresponsibility on the part of BOTH partners. It is also an unfortunate reality that women, as with most other aspects of morality, are burdened with more responsibility due to the results of equal irresponsibility than are their male partners.

[steen]

AllAmericanMan wrote: Advanced intellegence is not equal to that of a bacteria. It is guaranteed that for sure before the 26th week of pregnancy, the bacteria has as much intelligence as the fetus or embryo.

[WsTxRedRaider06]

steen wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: Advanced intellegence is not equal to that of a bacteria. It is guaranteed that for sure before the 26th week of pregnancy, the bacteria has as much intelligence as the fetus or embryo.

It is also garunteed, that if left unharmed and without complication, the embryo or fetus will be born a living, breathing human child. This is not garunteed for the bacteria, or any cancerous tumor, nor is it even a possibility.

[Omega1]

Quote: It is also garunteed, that if left unharmed and without complication, the embryo or fetus will be born a living, breathing human child. This is not garunteed for the bacteria, or any cancerous tumor, nor is it even a possibility.

It's also guaranteed that a cell, which contains human DNA, that if left unharmed and without complication, can become an organism if somatic cell nuclear transfer is utilized. Does this cell have rights since it too can become an individual person?

[steen]

WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: steen wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: Advanced intellegence is not equal to that of a bacteria. It is guaranteed that for sure before the 26th week of pregnancy, the bacteria has as much intelligence as the fetus or embryo. It is also garunteed, that if left unharmed and without complication, the embryo or fetus will be born a living, breathing human child. This is not garunteed for the bacteria, Ah, but the bacteria is already a full-fledged organism in its own right.

The question here, before your lame and pathetic dodge, was about intelligence.

[WsTxRedRaider06]

steen wrote: WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: steen wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: Advanced intellegence is not equal to that of a bacteria. It is guaranteed that for sure before the 26th week of pregnancy, the bacteria has as much intelligence as the fetus or embryo. It is also garunteed, that if left unharmed and without complication, the embryo or fetus will be born a living, breathing human child. This is not garunteed for the bacteria, Ah, but the bacteria is already a full-fledged organism in its own right.

The question here, before your lame and pathetic dodge, was about intelligence.

Your ignorance is amusing. I was interjecting, and making a seperate claim, that "It is also garunteed, that if left unharmed and without complication, the embryo or fetus will be born a living, breathing human child. This is not garunteed for the bacteria, nor is it a possibility". This was not a "lame and pathetic dodge" as you called it. Heck, by using the word also, I was basically agreeing with you! I was not arguing against your claim, I was saying that my seperate claim, was also true.

What is lame and pathetic, is your response to it, as is with most all of your responses.

[steen]

Ah, still pathetically dodging. LAME.

[WsTxRedRaider06]

Please point me to my post that was disagreeing with you, then I will continue to discuss it on this thread. Please point out where I was dodging your claim. I was not arguing against your claim in the first place, so how can I be dodging anything? Again, all you can do is label, and name call, and attack other posters without provocation. Not surprising at all.

[Plodder]

Quote: Life for different species is not worth more or less, it is just different. A horse's life = a human life. 10,000 lives is more than one. ok then just for you:


which would you save 1 horse or 1 baby?

[politikill]

AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: The issue isn't the comfort of the mother, it's the right to one's own body. It's the value of choice above the value of the unknown. Individual decision before governmental regulation. Also, there is no baby in question, only an embryo awaiting to become life. It is the choice of the mother that is important Its a newly concevied human life. Not an embryo waiting to become life. And the issue isnt the right to the womans body, its the developing body inside her she CHOSE to create. Funny "pro choice" people never acknowledge that fundamental decision and never acknowledge the lack of choice the life inside her gets.

but what if she DIDNT choose to create that life?
What if she was raped an became pregnant?
What if she was taking every birth control option available, and by some freak chance still became pregnant?

Funny how pro-life people are all about denying people the right to make a choice, and pro-choice people leave it up to the individual and particular situation to decide what is right and wrong :roll:

[WsTxRedRaider06]

politikill wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: The issue isn't the comfort of the mother, it's the right to one's own body. It's the value of choice above the value of the unknown. Individual decision before governmental regulation. Also, there is no baby in question, only an embryo awaiting to become life. It is the choice of the mother that is important Its a newly concevied human life. Not an embryo waiting to become life. And the issue isnt the right to the womans body, its the developing body inside her she CHOSE to create. Funny "pro choice" people never acknowledge that fundamental decision and never acknowledge the lack of choice the life inside her gets.

but what if she DIDNT choose to create that life?
What if she was raped an became pregnant?
What if she was taking every birth control option available, and by some freak chance still became pregnant?

Funny how pro-life people are all about denying people the right to make a choice, and pro-choice people leave it up to the individual and particular situation to decide what is right and wrong :roll:

Funny how Pro-Choicers value their OWN life, but not that of another. Funny how Pro-Choicers value convinience and lifestyle, over that of another life. It aint you right? SO who cares what you do with it. When you say it, tell it like it is....Pro-Life people are all about denying people the right, to deny another human being the right to life. Hey, it aint yours, why should you care?

[politikill]

WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: politikill wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: The issue isn't the comfort of the mother, it's the right to one's own body. It's the value of choice above the value of the unknown. Individual decision before governmental regulation. Also, there is no baby in question, only an embryo awaiting to become life. It is the choice of the mother that is important Its a newly concevied human life. Not an embryo waiting to become life. And the issue isnt the right to the womans body, its the developing body inside her she CHOSE to create. Funny "pro choice" people never acknowledge that fundamental decision and never acknowledge the lack of choice the life inside her gets.

but what if she DIDNT choose to create that life?
What if she was raped an became pregnant?
What if she was taking every birth control option available, and by some freak chance still became pregnant?

Funny how pro-life people are all about denying people the right to make a choice, and pro-choice people leave it up to the individual and particular situation to decide what is right and wrong :roll:

Funny how Pro-Choicers value their OWN life, but not that of another. Funny how Pro-Choicers value convinience and lifestyle, over that of another life. It aint you right? SO who cares what you do with it. When you say it, tell it like it is....Pro-Life people are all about denying people the right, to deny another human being the right to life. Hey, it aint yours, why should you care?

I do value my own more than another, who wouldnt?
However, a 2 week cell blob that formed from a sprem meeting with an egg is not a human life, its a cell blob

[AllAmericanMan]

Quote: However, a 2 week cell blob that formed from a sprem meeting with an egg is not a human life, its a cell blob Utterly ignorant description of a system of cells engaged in human development.

[Gilbert1908]

politikill wrote: WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: politikill wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: The issue isn't the comfort of the mother, it's the right to one's own body. It's the value of choice above the value of the unknown. Individual decision before governmental regulation. Also, there is no baby in question, only an embryo awaiting to become life. It is the choice of the mother that is important Its a newly concevied human life. Not an embryo waiting to become life. And the issue isnt the right to the womans body, its the developing body inside her she CHOSE to create. Funny "pro choice" people never acknowledge that fundamental decision and never acknowledge the lack of choice the life inside her gets.

but what if she DIDNT choose to create that life?
What if she was raped an became pregnant?
What if she was taking every birth control option available, and by some freak chance still became pregnant?

Funny how pro-life people are all about denying people the right to make a choice, and pro-choice people leave it up to the individual and particular situation to decide what is right and wrong :roll:

Funny how Pro-Choicers value their OWN life, but not that of another. Funny how Pro-Choicers value convinience and lifestyle, over that of another life. It aint you right? SO who cares what you do with it. When you say it, tell it like it is....Pro-Life people are all about denying people the right, to deny another human being the right to life. Hey, it aint yours, why should you care?

I do value my own more than another, who wouldnt?
However, a 2 week cell blob that formed from a sprem meeting with an egg is not a human life, its a cell blob

If human life does not begin at conception then exactly when does human life begin according to the medical and scientific experts that study the stages of human development?

[steen]

Gilbert1908 wrote: If human life does not begin at conception then exactly when does human life begin according to the medical and scientific experts that study the stages of human development? Anywhere from 8-10 mill to 125K years ago to the fetal stage of the mother to birth, depending on what the issue is and what the source of your evidence is trying to establish..

[AllAmericanMan]

steen wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: If human life does not begin at conception then exactly when does human life begin according to the medical and scientific experts that study the stages of human development? Anywhere from 8-10 mill to 125K years ago to the fetal stage of the mother to birth, depending on what the issue is and what the source of your evidence is trying to establish.. ROFL, how about a humans life?

[steen]

AllAmericanMan wrote: steen wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: If human life does not begin at conception then exactly when does human life begin according to the medical and scientific experts that study the stages of human development? Anywhere from 8-10 mill to 125K years ago to the fetal stage of the mother to birth, depending on what the issue is and what the source of your evidence is trying to establish.. ROFL, how about a humans life? That would be anywhere from the fetal stage of the mother to 1+ month before ovulation all the way up to birth, again depending on the specifics and context that you are looking for.

[AllAmericanMan]

steen wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: steen wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: If human life does not begin at conception then exactly when does human life begin according to the medical and scientific experts that study the stages of human development? Anywhere from 8-10 mill to 125K years ago to the fetal stage of the mother to birth, depending on what the issue is and what the source of your evidence is trying to establish.. ROFL, how about a humans life? That would be anywhere from the fetal stage of the mother to 1+ month before ovulation all the way up to birth, again depending on the specifics and context that you are looking for.
How about the point that a single organism comes into existence, that can develop into a single or even multiple adult human if left in its natural habitat?

[steen]

AllAmericanMan wrote: How about the point that a single organism comes into existence, that can develop into a single or even multiple adult human if left in its natural habitat? A single organism? As in an individual? That doesn't happen until birth.