| Click here to go to the original topic View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Plodder
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 803
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 1:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| even in the case of rape the baby does not deserve death for the sins of her father. |
|
| Back to top |
|
AUEagle
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 78
|
| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 5:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
Seeing as to how that 1 baby could be the person who develops the cure for cancer and saves hundreds of thousands of lives; seeing as to how that 1 baby could be one of the greatest minds that we've ever seen; seeing as to how that 1 baby could be a president (maybe the greatest president in our history); seeing as to how that 1 baby could change the lives of thousands of people in a positive way, I would save the child.
Unless of course you think that 10,000 horses have the same potential as a single child.
Man has a soul; not just a life. Man has a conscience; not just nature's instincts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
steen
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 1430
Location: Upper Midwest
|
| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Plodder wrote: Quote: Proof? proof that it is not? Lets see, embryo has human chromosomes individual to that being only... yes. So does the hydatidiform mole. So does your lung tumor.
Quote: an embryo grows .... yes. So does the hydatidiform mole. So does your lung tumor.
Quote: and embryo can react to stimuli...... yes. Actually, an embryo doesn't react. Now, the fetus at some point does have reflexes to stimuli, reflexes that would be there even after death. So that's not exactly a splendid argument.
Quote: an embryo can consume food provided by the mother.... yes. that sure looks like life to me. So does the hydatidiform mole. So does your lung tumor. yes, tumors and hydatidiform moles sure looks like life to you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
steen
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 1430
Location: Upper Midwest
|
| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
AllAmericanMan wrote: And the issue isnt the right to the womans body, Utter nonsense, as that is the ONLY issue at hand. It is the foundation for all of the woman's rights relating to abortions. It is the foundation for Roe vs Wade. It is the ONLY issue of relevance in the abortion debate.
Quote: its the developing body inside her she CHOSE to create. More nonsense. Choosing sex (if she indeed chose it) is not the same as choosing pregnancy. Your argument is rather void of reality.
Quote: Funny "pro choice" people never acknowledge that fundamental decision Funny how pro-=lifers always lie and claim it is there when it isn't.
Quote: and never acknowledge the lack of choice the life inside her gets. What choice? it is mindless, non-sensate, non-sentient tissue. It gets the same "choice" as a tumor. |
|
| Back to top |
|
steen
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 1430
Location: Upper Midwest
|
| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Plodder wrote: even in the case of rape the baby does not deserve death for the sins of her father. But then, an emrbyo or fetus are not babies. |
|
| Back to top |
|
steen
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 1430
Location: Upper Midwest
|
| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
AUEagle wrote: Seeing as to how that 1 baby could be the person who develops the cure for cancer and saves hundreds of thousands of lives; seeing as to how that 1 baby could be one of the greatest minds that we've ever seen; seeing as to how that 1 baby could be a president (maybe the greatest president in our history); seeing as to how that 1 baby could change the lives of thousands of people in a positive way, I would save the child. or it could be stalin and pol-pot all rolled into one.
Quote: Man has a soul; not just a life. Prove it.
Quote: Man has a conscience; not just nature's instincts. But the embryo or fetus does not. |
|
| Back to top |
|
AllAmericanMan
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 3606
|
| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: But the embryo or fetus does not Age discrimination to legalize murder of an unborn human being. |
|
| Back to top |
|
WsTxRedRaider06
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 146
Location: Lubbock, Texas
|
| Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="steen"] AUEagle wrote: Seeing as to how that 1 baby could be the person who develops the cure for cancer and saves hundreds of thousands of lives; seeing as to how that 1 baby could be one of the greatest minds that we've ever seen; seeing as to how that 1 baby could be a president (maybe the greatest president in our history); seeing as to how that 1 baby could change the lives of thousands of people in a positive way, I would save the child. or it could be stalin and pol-pot all rolled into one.
I believe the point that he was getting at, or a good point to make, was that the question did not ask which has more potential to do more good. The question asked said nothing about Horses being used for food, what you could do with those Horses, how much you could sell them for, and it did not present the baby as being the next Einstein. Sure the baby has great potential to grow and become something great, as the baby has the potential to be a rapist. Horses have the potential to feed the people, they also have the potential to stampede over people. It simply asks which you would save, 10k horses, or one baby, forget about what one might become or might be used for. It was a straightforeward question. I would save the baby.
Quote: Man has a soul; not just a life. Prove it.
Why should he have to prove something to you, that you yourself believe in? These quotes are taken off of YOUR posts in the "are you Christian" thread...
Quote: the only thing God put in is the soul.
Quote: The only thing God puts anywhere is the soul
Quote:
The soul is not being killed. Are you claiming that a soul can be killed?
He was claiming that man has a soul, and you asked him to prove it, but by your own words, you proved that you believe man to have a soul also....So why would you argue this point with him, other than the fact you are just here to disagree with everyone on the other side of the issue that is not of the same stance as you are? |
|
| Back to top |
|
LostSoul3412
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 7784
|
| Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
AUEagle wrote: Seeing as to how that 1 baby could be the person who develops the cure for cancer and saves hundreds of thousands of lives; seeing as to how that 1 baby could be one of the greatest minds that we've ever seen; seeing as to how that 1 baby could be a president (maybe the greatest president in our history); seeing as to how that 1 baby could change the lives of thousands of people in a positive way, I would save the child.
Speculation of the future does not, will not, and cannot be grounds for an argument.
The reason is that however great you think an embryo may become, it is just as easy to say that the embryo will become something just as evil. I cannot decide the fate of an embryo, and neither can you.
AUEagle wrote: Unless of course you think that 10,000 horses have the same potential as a single child.
It's not about potential here, this is not a debate of abortion, this is a debate of life. 10,000 lives > 1 life.
AUEagle wrote: Man has a soul; not just a life. Man has a conscience; not just nature's instincts.
And who is to say that horses have no souls? What proof can you provide that a horse does not have conscience? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Plodder
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 803
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: It's not about potential here, this is not a debate of abortion, this is a debate of life. . wrong this is adiscussion if 10,000 horse lives > 1 human life or vice versa. |
|
| Back to top |
|
LostSoul3412
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 7784
|
| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Plodder wrote: Quote: It's not about potential here, this is not a debate of abortion, this is a debate of life. . wrong this is adiscussion if 10,000 horse lives > 1 human life or vice versa.
:roll:
I say again, this is a debate on life.
Life for different species is not worth more or less, it is just different. A horse's life = a human life. 10,000 lives is more than one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
WsTxRedRaider06
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 146
Location: Lubbock, Texas
|
| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
LostSoul3412 wrote: Plodder wrote: Quote: It's not about potential here, this is not a debate of abortion, this is a debate of life. . wrong this is adiscussion if 10,000 horse lives > 1 human life or vice versa.
:roll:
I say again, this is a debate on life.
Life for different species is not worth more or less, it is just different. A horse's life = a human life. 10,000 lives is more than one.
So, your life is not more valuable than that of a flea? So since it depends not on what species, the life of a flea=that of a human. He could have said anything in his example. You wouldve then voted to save 10k fleas, over one baby? 10k spiders? Roaches? A human life is not worth more than that of a Bug? |
|
| Back to top |
|
AllAmericanMan
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 3606
|
| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 4:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: LostSoul3412 wrote: Plodder wrote: Quote: It's not about potential here, this is not a debate of abortion, this is a debate of life. . wrong this is adiscussion if 10,000 horse lives > 1 human life or vice versa.
:roll:
I say again, this is a debate on life.
Life for different species is not worth more or less, it is just different. A horse's life = a human life. 10,000 lives is more than one.
So, your life is not more valuable than that of a flea? So since it depends not on what species, the life of a flea=that of a human. He could have said anything in his example. You wouldve then voted to save 10k fleas, over one baby? 10k spiders? Roaches? A human life is not worth more than that of a Bug?
Also, what if the choice was between 2 flees and 1 human life? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sataere
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Ohio
|
| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 10,000 horses. It's a horrible scenario though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
LostSoul3412
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 7784
|
| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: So, your life is not more valuable than that of a flea? So since it depends not on what species, the life of a flea=that of a human. He could have said anything in his example. You wouldve then voted to save 10k fleas, over one baby? 10k spiders? Roaches? A human life is not worth more than that of a Bug?
Life, in the basic context, is equal regardless of specie. Since we are not discussing the function, environment, or personality of the life, all there is is the life itself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
LostSoul3412
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 7784
|
| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 10:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
AllAmericanMan wrote: Also, what if the choice was between 2 flees and 1 human life?
See above. |
|
| Back to top |
|
AllAmericanMan
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 3606
|
| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: Life, in the basic context, is equal regardless of specie. Since we are not discussing the function, environment, or personality of the life, all there is is the life itself. Advanced intellegence is not equal to that of a bacteria. |
|
| Back to top |
|
LostSoul3412
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 7784
|
| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: Life, in the basic context, is equal regardless of specie. Since we are not discussing the function, environment, or personality of the life, all there is is the life itself. Advanced intellegence is not equal to that of a bacteria.
Does a bacteria have that intelligence, or does it merely lack to means of expressing thought? |
|
| Back to top |
|
AllAmericanMan
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 3606
|
| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
LostSoul3412 wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: Life, in the basic context, is equal regardless of specie. Since we are not discussing the function, environment, or personality of the life, all there is is the life itself. Advanced intellegence is not equal to that of a bacteria.
Does a bacteria have that intelligence, or does it merely lack to means of expressing thought?
:roll: |
|
| Back to top |
|
Gwijde
Joined: 28 May 2006
Posts: 12
Location: West Vlaanderen
|
| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 8:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think you all go a bit easy over abortion.
Abortion is never a real choice; it is a last way out. Abortion is a horrible thing to experience, and if not really needed a mother would never undergo one.
Please, don't judge people who had an abortion, I can assure you, it is always a last way out. Not only for the mother to have a chance to get quality life, but also to give the child the opportunity to a quality life too (education, good job, no poverty...). If a mother doesn't see a possible way to do that, than is abortion the only way out.
On top of that, I think you are missing the point here. Instead of debating whether or not abortion is murder, think about how to PREVENT abortion!
Why is there abortion? Is today's youth not enough educated about sex? Do they have good access to condoms? What role does the government play here?
Kind regards |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Click here to go to the original topic |
