Political Crossfire Forums

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 8246

Plodder wrote: read the bible

:sigh1:

First, I have, and God has actually done some pretty vengeful things to humanity. Destorying cities, flooding the earth, corrupting his most loyal follower (Book of Job, anyone?), and scattering humanity for becoming to organized, and other things.

Second, respond to his point, don't hide behind the Bible.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

Plodder wrote: read the bible I have. It confirms my point and shows your argument to be nonsense.

Plodder · Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 803 Location: USA

Quote: First, I have, and God has actually done some pretty vengeful things to humanity. Destorying cities, flooding the earth, corrupting his most loyal follower (Book of Job, anyone?), and scattering humanity for becoming to organized, and other things.

he has done just things to humanity. God is not vengeful he is just. Sodom and Gamorrah got what they desrved for their sins of Homoseuality. And he was testing Job. the entire thing was a test. and the flood was justice to the world for becoming atheist.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

Plodder wrote: he has done just things to humanity. God is not vengeful he is just. So killing infants and cutting open pregnant women is just. Ah, thanks for clarifying that.

Quote: Sodom and Gamorrah got what they desrved for their sins of Homoseuality. Why are you lying about God's word? S&G were destroyed because its residents didn't receicve God's messengers.

Did God give you some kind of dispensation to lie about the bible, or are you merely using the bible as a blasphemous excuse for your hate mongering and lying?

Quote: And he was testing Job. the entire thing was a test. By killing off innocent people. Yes, I see the "justice" you are promoting.

Quote: and the flood was justice to the world for becoming atheist. So all the fetuses killed during the flood were atheist fetuses and deserved to die?

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 8246

Plodder wrote: he has done just things to humanity.

Personally, I don't believe "he" has done anything to humanity. But for the interest of debate, if you do a wrong, and then do a right, it does not eliminate the wrong. Even if God has done just things on behalf of humanity, he has also committed purges of his own.

Plodder wrote: God is not vengeful he is just.

Vengeful justice?

Plodder wrote: Sodom and Gamorrah got what they desrved for their sins of Homoseuality.

So if God has some the world a justice by killing mass amounts of homosexuals, does that mean that it is right to murder them because they "deserve it" based off their sexuality?

Plodder wrote: And he was testing Job. the entire thing was a test.

Like torture is a test of innocence, right? :roll:

Plodder wrote: and the flood was justice to the world for becoming atheist.

Sounds almost petty to me... "Worship me or die"...

In my book that's worse than vengeful.

Plodder · Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 803 Location: USA

Quote: Did God give you some kind of dispensation no, he gave the Church the right to derive teachings from the bible and not you.

Quote: Plodder wrote:
he has done just things to humanity.

Personally, I don't believe "he" has done anything to humanity. But for the interest of debate, if you do a wrong, and then do a right, it does not eliminate the wrong. Even if God has done just things on behalf of humanity, he has also committed purges of his own.

Plodder wrote:
God is not vengeful he is just.

Vengeful justice?

Plodder wrote:
Sodom and Gamorrah got what they desrved for their sins of Homoseuality.

So if God has some the world a justice by killing mass amounts of homosexuals, does that mean that it is right to murder them because they "deserve it" based off their sexuality?

Plodder wrote:
And he was testing Job. the entire thing was a test.

Like torture is a test of innocence, right?

Plodder wrote:
and the flood was justice to the world for becoming atheist.

Sounds almost petty to me... "Worship me or die"...

In my book that's worse than vengeful. The problem with your entire position is that you cannot infallibly say these things. Thses staements are your own opinion.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 8246

Plodder wrote: no, he gave the Church the right to derive teachings from the bible and not you.

Actually, according to the Catholic faith, the only one able to determine the teachings of the Bible is the Pope, so you don't have that right either.

Lucky for me, I'm not Catholic.

Plodder wrote: The problem with your entire position is that you cannot infallibly say these things. Thses staements are your own opinion.

Exactly, just like "God is just" is your opinion. If my interpretation of the Bible is unacceptable, then so is your's. So attempting to use the Bible to support your argument is unacceptable by your own logic.

Plodder · Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 803 Location: USA

actually Im reapeting the position of the church.

and God is just is not just my opinion but is part of the catholic faith.

Quote: Lucky for me, I'm not Catholic.

Your vincible ignorance will be your failure.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 8246

Plodder wrote: actually Im reapeting the position of the church.

and God is just is not just my opinion but is part of the catholic faith.

Or is it your opinion because it follows that of the Catholic church?

Plodder wrote: Quote: Lucky for me, I'm not Catholic.

Your vincible ignorance will be your failure.

My ignorance is what kept me part of the church for as long as it did. When I realized that Catholicism involves subjecting your faith to the Pope, I was determined to decide my own beliefs. My enlightenment has happened after leaving the Catholic church, and since I have become my own individual. Ignorance is what keeps people as part of the herd. Enlightenment is what leads to individuality.

Plodder · Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 803 Location: USA

Quote: Or is it your opinion because it follows that of the Catholic church? I follow both my faith and my reason.

Quote: When I realized that Catholicism involves subjecting your faith to the Pope, I was determined to decide my own beliefs. My enlightenment has happened after leaving the Catholic church, and since I have become my own individual. Ignorance is what keeps people as part of the herd. Enlightenment is what leads to individuality. Then you never understood what it means to be Catholic. You call your new belifs enlightnment? Ha! you simply worship objects as your god since they are teh priority of your life. I can tell you that money will never give you eternal life. "Ënlighment"l leads to sin. True enlightment is sanctity.

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

The worst attrocities in history happened while good people did nothing to stop it. Viewing something as murder and still saying eh if it dont effect you then dont bother is the most illogical statement you could make on abortion. Its equally immoral as the act itself. Religion has nothing to do with that. Its just common sense.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

Quote: "Ënlighment"l leads to sin. Ah, so THAT is why you are so scornful of facts and evidence and claim that your subjective, wishful thinking is "fact." That's delusional.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

AllAmericanMan wrote: The worst attrocities in history happened while good people did nothing to stop it. Which is why we will stop you from enslaving and oppressing women.

Quote: Viewing something as murder and still saying eh if it dont effect you then dont bother is the most illogical statement you could make on abortion.. But then it isn't murder anyway, pro-life lies and delusional claims none withstanding.

Quote: Its equally immoral as the act itself. Ah, so fully moral. OK, thanks for clarifying.

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

Quote: Which is why we will stop you from enslaving and oppressing women Troll.

Quote: But then it isn't murder anyway, pro-life lies and delusional claims none withstanding Troll.

Quote: Ah, so fully moral. OK, thanks for clarifying Unsubstantiated.

Plodder · Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 803 Location: USA

Quote: Which is why we will stop you from enslaving and oppressing women. we will stop the murder of babies

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 8246

Plodder wrote: we will stop the murder of babies

Then I challenge you:

Prove under legal definitions and legal laws that abortion is murder, and that embryos are indeed the same as babies.

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

Quote: Then I challenge you:

Prove under legal definitions and legal laws that abortion is murder, and that embryos are indeed the same as babies. Retarded question. The whole debate is about changing the legal definitions.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: Which is why we will stop you from enslaving and oppressing women Troll.
Quote: But then it isn't murder anyway, pro-life lies and delusional claims none withstanding Troll.
Quote: Ah, so fully moral. OK, thanks for clarifying Unsubstantiated. Ah, more lame and cowardly avoidance of the issues. How typically pro-life, this lame lack of integrity.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

Plodder wrote: Quote: Which is why we will stop you from enslaving and oppressing women. we will stop the murder of babies But then, abortion is not about murdering babies, your lies none withstanding.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: Then I challenge you:

Prove under legal definitions and legal laws that abortion is murder, and that embryos are indeed the same as babies. Retarded question. The whole debate is about changing the legal definitions. So you admit that you lied. Well, that's better, I suppose.