Political Crossfire Forums

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24724

psholtz wrote: John wrote: Man has to ability to do those things...he doesn't have the ability to save his own soul.
A farmer doesn't have the ability to take a seed and turn it into a stalk of wheat either. But he's the one responsible for planting the seed, tending to it as its growing, and harvesting it once the crop is ready.

If you don't sow the seed, how do you expect to eat of the Bread of Life?

God is the sower....man is the dirt.

Are you good dirt or bad dirt, psholtz?

Jesus Christ is the Bread of Life. Putting your faith in Him will provide the substance to feed your soul.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: Man has to ability to do those things...he doesn't have the ability to save his own soul.
A farmer doesn't have the ability to take a seed and turn it into a stalk of wheat either. But he's the one responsible for planting the seed, tending to it as its growing, and harvesting it once the crop is ready.

If you don't sow the seed, how do you expect to eat of the Bread of Life?

God is the sower....man is the dirt.

Are you good dirt or bad dirt, psholtz?

Jesus Christ is the Bread of Life. Putting your faith in Him will provide the substance to feed your soul.
Your analogies are in almost completely contradiction to Galatians 6:7.. :?

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24724

psholtz wrote: John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: Man has to ability to do those things...he doesn't have the ability to save his own soul.
A farmer doesn't have the ability to take a seed and turn it into a stalk of wheat either. But he's the one responsible for planting the seed, tending to it as its growing, and harvesting it once the crop is ready.

If you don't sow the seed, how do you expect to eat of the Bread of Life?

God is the sower....man is the dirt.

Are you good dirt or bad dirt, psholtz?

Jesus Christ is the Bread of Life. Putting your faith in Him will provide the substance to feed your soul.
Your analogies are in almost completely contradiction to Galatians 6:7.. :?

What do you think it means if one sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life?

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

John wrote: What do you think it means if one sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life?
Why are you even asking that question John?

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24724

psholtz wrote: John wrote: What do you think it means if one sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life?
Why are you even asking that question John?

Because I want to know.

Why else would I ask a question?

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: What do you think it means if one sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life?
Why are you even asking that question John?

Because I want to know.

Why else would I ask a question?
Because you ask many questions which are pointless, or the answers to which you would not comprehend if they were revealed to you.

Suffice to the say, St. Paul is qutie clear here that is MAN who is doing the sowing, and it is MAN who will reap eternal life if he should CHOOSE to sow to the Spirit.

I don't know what else you'd like to read into this verse.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24724

psholtz wrote: John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: What do you think it means if one sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life?
Why are you even asking that question John?

Because I want to know.

Why else would I ask a question?
Because you ask many questions which are pointless, or the answers to which you would not comprehend if they were revealed to you.

Suffice to the say, St. Paul is qutie clear here that is MAN who is doing the sowing, and it is MAN who will reap eternal life if he should CHOOSE to sow to the Spirit.

I don't know what else you'd like to read into this verse.

It amazes me how you can read something and take the opposite of the intent from it.

He is saying that you need to allow the Spirit to save you...NOT save yourself in the flesh. Read the chapter in context. How could you miss that?

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: What do you think it means if one sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life?
Why are you even asking that question John?

Because I want to know.

Why else would I ask a question?
Because you ask many questions which are pointless, or the answers to which you would not comprehend if they were revealed to you.

Suffice to the say, St. Paul is qutie clear here that is MAN who is doing the sowing, and it is MAN who will reap eternal life if he should CHOOSE to sow to the Spirit.

I don't know what else you'd like to read into this verse.

It amazes me how you can read something and take the opposite of the intent from it.

He is saying that you need to allow the Spirit to save you...NOT save yourself in the flesh. Read the chapter in context. How could you miss that?
John, I don't much care for you or the state of your Soul. What you do w/ your life is your business, not mine, but the verse clearly reads that "man reaps what he sows".. On this there is no debate.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24724

psholtz wrote: John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: What do you think it means if one sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life?
Why are you even asking that question John?

Because I want to know.

Why else would I ask a question?
Because you ask many questions which are pointless, or the answers to which you would not comprehend if they were revealed to you.

Suffice to the say, St. Paul is qutie clear here that is MAN who is doing the sowing, and it is MAN who will reap eternal life if he should CHOOSE to sow to the Spirit.

I don't know what else you'd like to read into this verse.

It amazes me how you can read something and take the opposite of the intent from it.

He is saying that you need to allow the Spirit to save you...NOT save yourself in the flesh. Read the chapter in context. How could you miss that?
John, I don't much care for you or the state of your Soul. What you do w/ your life is your business, not mine, but the verse clearly reads that "man reaps what he sows".. On this there is no debate.

How exactly does one "sow" the Spirit in the flesh....or in other words sow God? You can’t "plant" God with the works of your hands ...you can only accept God's implantation in you and allow Him to work through you through the Spirit.

If you try and save yourself...you reap the result that saving yourself will bring...and that is contempt and failure.

Or you can humble yourself…admit that you NEED the Redeemer Jesus Christ and be saved, for it is from the Spirit that one reaps eternal life.

BTW...proof that the Spirit is working through you is that you start actually caring for the state of people souls. You will care...because the Spirit cares.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

John wrote: How exactly does one "sow" the Spirit in the flesh....or in other words sow God? You can’t "plant" God with the works of your hands ...you can only accept God's implantation in you and allow Him to work through you through the Spirit.
You seem hung up on this "works of your hands" business, when in fact noone ever said it was the "works of your hands" that saves a man. Is it the "work of my hands" when a rose grows and blooms into a flower? Is it the "work of my hands" when a seed of wheat grows into a stalk of wheat? Granted, unless I work w/ my hands to plant these flowers and tend to them, they won't grow and bloom, but it's God who gives the increase. Have a look at what St. Paul tells us in 1 Cor 3:5-9. Jesus chose the Parable of the Sower as an allegory for the process of Salvation for a very, very good reason. Namely b/c it's the best one conceivable.

You ignore this parable at your own risk.

Quote: If you try and save yourself...you reap the result that saving yourself will bring...and that is contempt and failure.
The laborer is worthy of his hire, John (Luke 10:7)

If you don't put any elbowgrease of your own into it, you'll never get anywhere and you'll never be saved.

The farmer who doesn't sow the seed, tend to the crop and reap the harvest has no bread to eat. Likewise, the Christian who fails to do these things shall not partake of the Bread of Life. Only the laborer is worthy of his hire.

Quote: Or you can humble yourself…admit that you NEED the Redeemer Jesus Christ and be saved, for it is from the Spirit that one reaps eternal life.
There is no such thing as a personal "Savior" John, and there's no verse in the Bible where you will be able to quote what you just told me: "you need Jesus!" .. Noone in the Bible ever says that. It's always phrased as an option. Man has Free Will, and is permitted to do whatever he will. He may reap to the flesh and sow the tares therefrom, or he may reap to the Spirit and reap the Bread of Life.

The choice is in the hand of man, who was created in the image of God.

Quote: BTW...proof that the Spirit is working through you is that you start actually caring for the state of people souls. You will care...because the Spirit cares.
Actually, one proof that the Spirit is in you is that you stop caring for those Soul which you know are already lost.. :-|

Omega1 · Joined: 29 Apr 2006 Posts: 456

Quote: Example? I provided proof for my position.

2 Kings

2:23 And he went up thence unto Bethel, and as he was going up by the way there came forth little children out of the city and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou baldhead.

2:24 And he turned back and looked at them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she-bears out of the wood and tore forty and two children of them.

This was the work of the good God -- the merciful God!

Quote: At some point the line of Enki deviates from the will of Anu, and tries to take over the holy land from the line of Enlil. Ninurta who is Anu's chief warrior, fights them off using "magic weapons"(like a flaming sword). All of the "gods" below Anu, were sent to work on earth and they were not allowed to ascend to the "heavenly abode". In other words all of the "gods" below Anu, are the Nephilim from OT. So Ninurta (Michael) had fallen already...that is why he was on earth in the first place. I know this probably doesn't make sense... most people do not interpret these religious texts together... it is just something you realize after reading enough about the subject.

Your right, it doesn't make any sense.

Quote: The good ones yes.

:lol: You just proved my point. They were good.

Quote: The others fornicate with women and create monstrous offspring. :lol:

Angels have DNA? I thought they were spiritual? Can you have sex in heaven?

Quote: Two interesting side notes: The Sumerians had a pictographic writing system, and also incorporated pictographic concepts in their art. The way they denoted the "gods" were with horns. The "gods" that could fly in the heavens were depicted with wings, even though they did not necessarily use these wings to fly.

The Sumerians came before the OT was written.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 8999

Wasn't the Bible written to be interpreted by the people? Scripture has many different ways of being read, so there is no one way to defining the intent of the Trinity. Even through my religion education classes as a child, the Holy Spirit was rarely discussed, except in Pentecost. It was taught, through the Catholic Church, that the Father and Son are two separate entities. The Father being God, and the Son (Jesus) were separate bodies, not the same entity. The Holy Spirit was referred to as the faith of the people. The Holy Spirit was man-made through the grace of God, and the faith in Jesus created the Holy Spirit to watch over the people in the form of a fiery dove, peaceful, yet fierce.

This is coming from someone who has rejected their faith in Catholicism years ago, and this is what I can remember from classes required for Conformation.

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

Trinity threads never cease to be a curiosity to me. While I can understand why there could be questions in some people's minds as to who or what the Holy Ghost might be (though obviously he is a spirit being that bears witness to our spirit of things that are true) I find it especially curious that there should be any confusion as to who the Father and Son are, when the scriptures clearly tell us that God is the Father of Jesus and Mary is his mother.

Father: male parent
Son: immediate male offspring
Offspring: immediate descendant
Descendant: descended from an ancestor
Ancestor: parent, or ancestor of parent

Jesus Christ = the Son of God
God = the Father of Jesus Christ

Mother: female parent
Mary = the Mother of Jesus Christ

Jesus Christ = the only begotten Son of God

Begotten: generated by procreation
Procreation: the act by which organisms reproduce

God = Father
Mary = Mother
Jesus = Son

So simple that even a child can understand.

Snarf · Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 5459

MJB wrote: Trinity threads never cease to be a curiosity to me. While I can understand why there could be questions in some people's minds as to who or what the Holy Ghost might be (though obviously he is a spirit being that bears witness to our spirit of things that are true) I find it especially curious that there should be any confusion as to who the Father and Son are, when the scriptures clearly tell us that God is the Father of Jesus and Mary is his mother.

It's probably because Jesus, the prophet cum idol of the faith, didn't believe in such illogical nonsense as three=one. It's the Medieval Christian fear of pantheism that makes this little rationalization such an abject lie that can't be reasoned away. I trust in children’s questions. That's what makes "Who made God?" such a faith killer, at least if by faith you mean 'truth' instead of what it should be, inspiration...

Ananda Lee · Joined: 05 Jul 2005 Posts: 69

Well, the best way I ever heard the trinity explained was like this: there's solid, liquid and gas. Vapor, water and Ice. The same thing fundamentally, in three different manifestations. it's the same way for the trinity. The same thing (god) in three different manifestations (god, christ, spirit).

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24724

Ananda Lee wrote: Well, the best way I ever heard the trinity explained was like this: there's solid, liquid and gas. Vapor, water and Ice. The same thing fundamentally, in three different manifestations. it's the same way for the trinity. The same thing (god) in three different manifestations (god, christ, spirit).

Ever heard of the Triple Point of Water?

It's actually possible for the temperature and pressure of water to coexist in all three phases (solid, liquid and gas) in equilibrium.

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

I like the analogy of three lit matches being held together making one unified flame.

Omega1 · Joined: 29 Apr 2006 Posts: 456

MJB wrote: I like the analogy of three lit matches being held together making one unified flame.

That doesn't mean you can simultaneously be 3 people. Do those matches have 3 minds controlled by 1 person?

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

MJB wrote: I like the analogy of three lit matches being held together making one unified flame.
On this note, the analogy I've heard that I like the best is that God is like a Fire (a consuming fire, as per the OT), but this Fire is forever hidden and invisible from the comprehension of man. Instead, man only has the capacity is perceive the (a) heat; (b) light; and (c) smoke which the Fire generates.. hence the Trinity.

sLiPpY · Joined: 24 Nov 2004 Posts: 10201

psholtz wrote: MJB wrote: I like the analogy of three lit matches being held together making one unified flame.
On this note, the analogy I've heard that I like the best is that God is like a Fire (a consuming fire, as per the OT), but this Fire is forever hidden and invisible from the comprehension of man. Instead, man only has the capacity is perceive the (a) heat; (b) light; and (c) smoke which the Fire generates.. hence the Trinity.

:think: yeh, that's what Philo says. :)