Political Crossfire Forums

connermt · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1526 Location: CMH OHIO

feederband wrote: psholtz...

Truth----a fact that has been verified..

In relation to this forum does anyone have the real truth...Read the definition 10 times before you answer..

UGH :lol:
Good luck trying to get people to realize this concept on here : "In relation to this forum does anyone have the real truth"

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 4156 Location: Florida

connermt wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz...

Truth----a fact that has been verified..

In relation to this forum does anyone have the real truth...Read the definition 10 times before you answer..

UGH :lol:
Good luck trying to get people to realize this concept on here : "In relation to this forum does anyone have the real truth"

eeh, worth a shot... :lol:

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

feederband wrote: MJB wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz...

Truth----a fact that has been verified..

In relation to this forum does anyone have the real truth...Read the definition 10 times before you answer..

Truth is truth, whether anyone knows it or not.

The truth is that the world was round, even when people thought it was flat.

The truth is what it is, regardless of what people think it might be.

Then it stands to reason there is no god even though a lot of people may THINK there is...Like you said "truth is what it is"---a FACT that has been VERIFIED..
The existence of God can be proven quite easily..

If you are incapable of arriving at this proof, you have noone to blame for it but yourself.

Don't blame others for your own weaknesses and shortcomings..

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 4156 Location: Florida

psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: MJB wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz...

Truth----a fact that has been verified..

In relation to this forum does anyone have the real truth...Read the definition 10 times before you answer..

Truth is truth, whether anyone knows it or not.

The truth is that the world was round, even when people thought it was flat.

The truth is what it is, regardless of what people think it might be.

Then it stands to reason there is no god even though a lot of people may THINK there is...Like you said "truth is what it is"---a FACT that has been VERIFIED..
The existence of God can be proven quite easily..

If you are incapable of arriving at this proof, you have noone to blame for it but yourself.

Don't blame others for your own weaknesses and shortcomings..

It could be proven quite easily huh? Great maybe I can be a born again I want to know this truth...Please wise one what is this truth...?

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

feederband wrote: It could be proven quite easily huh? Great maybe I can be a born again I want to know this truth...
Yes, if you were born again you would know the Truth.

Quote: Please wise one what is this truth...?
Ironically, that's the same question Pilate asked Jesus just before he killed him.. Perhaps in just so mocking a tone as well..

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

feederband wrote: MJB wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz...

Truth----a fact that has been verified..

In relation to this forum does anyone have the real truth...Read the definition 10 times before you answer..

Truth is truth, whether anyone knows it or not.

The truth is that the world was round, even when people thought it was flat.

The truth is what it is, regardless of what people think it might be.

Then it stands to reason there is no god even though a lot of people may THINK there is...Like you said "truth is what it is"---a FACT that has been VERIFIED..

No - truth is truth, whether man knows about it yet or not. Those things that are true, that man has not yet gained a knowledge of, are still true, even though they are unknown to him and have not been verified by him. Something does not, all of a sudden, become true, once it is verified, as if it was not true before. What is true, is always true, before, or after, man discovers it.

connermt · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1526 Location: CMH OHIO

psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: It could be proven quite easily huh? Great maybe I can be a born again I want to know this truth...
Yes, if you were born again you would know the Truth.

Quote: Please wise one what is this truth...?
Ironically, that's the same question Pilate asked Jesus just before he killed him.. Perhaps in just so mocking a tone as well..

But can a personal experience be held out as proof for the masses?

Does the act of & workings of being BORN AGAIN vary between people?
What about the people across the world that never hear about being born again? They never see proof of God?

How do we know that results of being born again isn't just made up within our minds?

connermt · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1526 Location: CMH OHIO

MJB wrote: feederband wrote: MJB wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz...

Truth----a fact that has been verified..

In relation to this forum does anyone have the real truth...Read the definition 10 times before you answer..

Truth is truth, whether anyone knows it or not.

The truth is that the world was round, even when people thought it was flat.

The truth is what it is, regardless of what people think it might be.

Then it stands to reason there is no god even though a lot of people may THINK there is...Like you said "truth is what it is"---a FACT that has been VERIFIED..

No - truth is truth, whether man knows about it yet or not. Those things that are true, that man has not yet gained a knowledge of, are still true, even though they are unknown to him and have not been verified by him. Something does not, all of a sudden, become true, once it is verified, as if it was not true before. What is true, is always true, before, or after, man discovers it.

But can one say it is true w/o knowing about it in the first place?
Don't you first have to FIND something to show any proof of it to begin with?
So if YOU find the truth, then it is true to you, but not to me if I haven't found it personally??

Snarf · Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 5459

MJB wrote: feederband wrote: MJB wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz...

Truth----a fact that has been verified..

In relation to this forum does anyone have the real truth...Read the definition 10 times before you answer..

Truth is truth, whether anyone knows it or not.

The truth is that the world was round, even when people thought it was flat.

The truth is what it is, regardless of what people think it might be.

Then it stands to reason there is no god even though a lot of people may THINK there is...Like you said "truth is what it is"---a FACT that has been VERIFIED..

No - truth is truth, whether man knows about it yet or not. Those things that are true, that man has not yet gained a knowledge of, are still true, even though they are unknown to him and have not been verified by him. Something does not, all of a sudden, become true, once it is verified, as if it was not true before. What is true, is always true, before, or after, man discovers it.
The opposite of one truth is usually another truth. It is more complicated than saying there is 'a truth', even if we get it wrong for a time and discover a more accurate version later. The truth, like everything else, evolves. If you ask what light is, you discover that it is a particle and a wave. It is two things and both of them are 'true'...

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

connermt wrote: MJB wrote: feederband wrote: MJB wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz...

Truth----a fact that has been verified..

In relation to this forum does anyone have the real truth...Read the definition 10 times before you answer..

Truth is truth, whether anyone knows it or not.

The truth is that the world was round, even when people thought it was flat.

The truth is what it is, regardless of what people think it might be.

Then it stands to reason there is no god even though a lot of people may THINK there is...Like you said "truth is what it is"---a FACT that has been VERIFIED..

No - truth is truth, whether man knows about it yet or not. Those things that are true, that man has not yet gained a knowledge of, are still true, even though they are unknown to him and have not been verified by him. Something does not, all of a sudden, become true, once it is verified, as if it was not true before. What is true, is always true, before, or after, man discovers it.

But can one say it is true w/o knowing about it in the first place?
Don't you first have to FIND something to show any proof of it to begin with?
So if YOU find the truth, then it is true to you, but not to me if I haven't found it personally??

That would be like saying that the fire is not hot, until the child touches it and gets burned. When the child does touch it, and does get burned, is that when it becomes hot? No, of course not.

The truth is that the fire was always hot, but the child had not yet learned that truth for himself, until he was burned by it. Being burned caused the child to gain understanding and knowledge that he previously did not have, but it did not change the truth, that the fire was hot all along.

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 4156 Location: Florida

psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: It could be proven quite easily huh? Great maybe I can be a born again I want to know this truth...
Yes, if you were born again you would know the Truth.

Quote: Please wise one what is this truth...?
Ironically, that's the same question Pilate asked Jesus just before he killed him.. Perhaps in just so mocking a tone as well..

A born again what? And how by becoming this will I know the TRUTH..

connermt · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1526 Location: CMH OHIO

MJB wrote: connermt wrote: MJB wrote: feederband wrote: MJB wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz...

Truth----a fact that has been verified..

In relation to this forum does anyone have the real truth...Read the definition 10 times before you answer..

Truth is truth, whether anyone knows it or not.

The truth is that the world was round, even when people thought it was flat.

The truth is what it is, regardless of what people think it might be.

Then it stands to reason there is no god even though a lot of people may THINK there is...Like you said "truth is what it is"---a FACT that has been VERIFIED..

No - truth is truth, whether man knows about it yet or not. Those things that are true, that man has not yet gained a knowledge of, are still true, even though they are unknown to him and have not been verified by him. Something does not, all of a sudden, become true, once it is verified, as if it was not true before. What is true, is always true, before, or after, man discovers it.

But can one say it is true w/o knowing about it in the first place?
Don't you first have to FIND something to show any proof of it to begin with?
So if YOU find the truth, then it is true to you, but not to me if I haven't found it personally??

That would be like saying that the fire is not hot, until the child touches it and gets burned. When the child does touch it, and does get burned, is that when it becomes hot? No, of course not.

The truth is that the fire was always hot, but the child had not yet learned that truth for himself, until he was burned by it. Being burned caused the child to gain understanding and knowledge that he previously did not have, but it did not change the truth, that the fire was hot all along.

It may very well be hot, but we don't know it is hot until we touch it, right?
That does NOT mean it was never 'hot', but until we discover it is HOT & then describe it as hot, we never know
By people not knowing "X" doesn't mean that "X" doesn't exists, just that we don't know about it so we don't KNOW it exists.

Life on other planets may exist, but until we have proof it does, we can't say 100% for sure there is life on other planets

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 4156 Location: Florida

MJB wrote: connermt wrote: MJB wrote: feederband wrote: MJB wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz...

Truth----a fact that has been verified..

In relation to this forum does anyone have the real truth...Read the definition 10 times before you answer..

Truth is truth, whether anyone knows it or not.

The truth is that the world was round, even when people thought it was flat.

The truth is what it is, regardless of what people think it might be.

Then it stands to reason there is no god even though a lot of people may THINK there is...Like you said "truth is what it is"---a FACT that has been VERIFIED..

No - truth is truth, whether man knows about it yet or not. Those things that are true, that man has not yet gained a knowledge of, are still true, even though they are unknown to him and have not been verified by him. Something does not, all of a sudden, become true, once it is verified, as if it was not true before. What is true, is always true, before, or after, man discovers it.

But can one say it is true w/o knowing about it in the first place?
Don't you first have to FIND something to show any proof of it to begin with?
So if YOU find the truth, then it is true to you, but not to me if I haven't found it personally??

That would be like saying that the fire is not hot, until the child touches it and gets burned. When the child does touch it, and does get burned, is that when it becomes hot? No, of course not.

The truth is that the fire was always hot, but the child had not yet learned that truth for himself, until he was burned by it. Being burned caused the child to gain understanding and knowledge that he previously did not have, but it did not change the truth, that the fire was hot all along.

Why try to unsimplify the word truth...The truth is fire has always been hot...Doesn't matter if the kid knew it or not the outcome would of been the same...The problem lies when somones says I have faith its not hot...Yet you ask him to stick his hands in the fire...That person says no I don't have too I have already said I have faith that it is not hot and thats all that matters....Sounds like something else I have heard before..

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

Snarf wrote: MJB wrote: feederband wrote: MJB wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz...

Truth----a fact that has been verified..

In relation to this forum does anyone have the real truth...Read the definition 10 times before you answer..

Truth is truth, whether anyone knows it or not.

The truth is that the world was round, even when people thought it was flat.

The truth is what it is, regardless of what people think it might be.

Then it stands to reason there is no god even though a lot of people may THINK there is...Like you said "truth is what it is"---a FACT that has been VERIFIED..

No - truth is truth, whether man knows about it yet or not. Those things that are true, that man has not yet gained a knowledge of, are still true, even though they are unknown to him and have not been verified by him. Something does not, all of a sudden, become true, once it is verified, as if it was not true before. What is true, is always true, before, or after, man discovers it.
The opposite of one truth is usually another truth. It is more complicated than saying there is 'a truth', even if we get it wrong for a time and discover a more accurate version later. The truth, like everything else, evolves. If you ask what light is, you discover that it is a particle and a wave. It is two things and both of them are 'true'...

Truth does not change. What evolves, or sometimes devolves, is our knowledge and understanding of what is true.

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

connermt wrote: MJB wrote: connermt wrote: But can one say it is true w/o knowing about it in the first place?
Don't you first have to FIND something to show any proof of it to begin with?
So if YOU find the truth, then it is true to you, but not to me if I haven't found it personally??

That would be like saying that the fire is not hot, until the child touches it and gets burned. When the child does touch it, and does get burned, is that when it becomes hot? No, of course not.

The truth is that the fire was always hot, but the child had not yet learned that truth for himself, until he was burned by it. Being burned caused the child to gain understanding and knowledge that he previously did not have, but it did not change the truth, that the fire was hot all along.

It may very well be hot, but we don't know it is hot until we touch it, right?
That does NOT mean it was never 'hot', but until we discover it is HOT & then describe it as hot, we never know
By people not knowing "X" doesn't mean that "X" doesn't exists, just that we don't know about it so we don't KNOW it exists.

Life on other planets may exist, but until we have proof it does, we can't say 100% for sure there is life on other planets

But not being 100% sure, or not knowing, either way, does not change the truth, because either there is life on other planets, or there is not, and our not knowing, does not change it.

This is why an open mind is necessary to discover truth, whether it has to do with God, the world around us, or the universe. One is not going to gain a knowledge of truth, if he has a closed mind.

If man needed tangible proof of the truth of something, before believing it, or before even believing in the possibility of it, how many inventions and discoveries would have ever been made?

connermt · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1526 Location: CMH OHIO

MJB wrote: connermt wrote: MJB wrote: connermt wrote: But can one say it is true w/o knowing about it in the first place?
Don't you first have to FIND something to show any proof of it to begin with?
So if YOU find the truth, then it is true to you, but not to me if I haven't found it personally??

That would be like saying that the fire is not hot, until the child touches it and gets burned. When the child does touch it, and does get burned, is that when it becomes hot? No, of course not.

The truth is that the fire was always hot, but the child had not yet learned that truth for himself, until he was burned by it. Being burned caused the child to gain understanding and knowledge that he previously did not have, but it did not change the truth, that the fire was hot all along.

It may very well be hot, but we don't know it is hot until we touch it, right?
That does NOT mean it was never 'hot', but until we discover it is HOT & then describe it as hot, we never know
By people not knowing "X" doesn't mean that "X" doesn't exists, just that we don't know about it so we don't KNOW it exists.

Life on other planets may exist, but until we have proof it does, we can't say 100% for sure there is life on other planets

But not being 100% sure, or not knowing, either way, does not change the truth, because either there is life on other planets, or there is not, and our not knowing, does not change it.

This is why an open mind is necessary to discover truth, whether it has to do with God, the world around us, or the universe. One is not going to gain a knowledge of truth, if he has a closed mind.

If man needed tangible proof of the truth of something, before believing it, or before even believing in the possibility of it, how many inventions and discoveries would have ever been made?

Quote: ...either way, does not change the truth, because either there is life on other planets, or there is not, and our not knowing, does not change it. agreed - never said anything other than that.
An open mind is required for belief in anything IMO, but simply believing, while may be proof for you (or someone else) doesn't make it true for everyone.
Quote: If man needed tangible proof of the truth of something, before believing it, or before even believing in the possibility of it, how many inventions and discoveries would have ever been made? Again, agreed. You have to know to look for something before you go looking for it. But until IT is proven, IT is only a goal; something to find - IT is not the truth until it is proven.

Snarf · Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 5459

MJB wrote: connermt wrote: MJB wrote: feederband wrote: MJB wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz...

Truth----a fact that has been verified..

In relation to this forum does anyone have the real truth...Read the definition 10 times before you answer..

Truth is truth, whether anyone knows it or not.

The truth is that the world was round, even when people thought it was flat.

The truth is what it is, regardless of what people think it might be.

Then it stands to reason there is no god even though a lot of people may THINK there is...Like you said "truth is what it is"---a FACT that has been VERIFIED..

No - truth is truth, whether man knows about it yet or not. Those things that are true, that man has not yet gained a knowledge of, are still true, even though they are unknown to him and have not been verified by him. Something does not, all of a sudden, become true, once it is verified, as if it was not true before. What is true, is always true, before, or after, man discovers it.

But can one say it is true w/o knowing about it in the first place?
Don't you first have to FIND something to show any proof of it to begin with?
So if YOU find the truth, then it is true to you, but not to me if I haven't found it personally??

That would be like saying that the fire is not hot, until the child touches it and gets burned. When the child does touch it, and does get burned, is that when it becomes hot? No, of course not.

The truth is that the fire was always hot, but the child had not yet learned that truth for himself, until he was burned by it. Being burned caused the child to gain understanding and knowledge that he previously did not have, but it did not change the truth, that the fire was hot all along.
Fire isn't 'hot', it's a certain temperature depending on the local conditions, which can be called 'fact'. Hot, like Truth, is subjective. To a man with no nerves, fire isn't hot because he can't feel it burn his skin, which is how we as human beings without tools measure 'hot'. What is hot to you may not be hot to me. Fire can be made so hot that you never feel it burn you. The truth, like reality itself, is relative and subjective.

It does seem like there should be a deep truth that’s not open to interpretation, but physics tells us that it doesn’t exist. What we have instead are local realities that change as we interact with them. The deep truth, the ultimate truth, is a search for meaning not fact, as the facts change every time we believe they do. Truth is a moving target and we chase it like a cat with a ball of string. That doesn’t make it invalid, just temporary, which is why it’s better to keep an open mind than to say “I know the truth’. Everyone who has every said that so far has been proved ‘wrong’…

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

The problem lies not in finding the Truth, but knowing what it is you are looking at.

Truth is not subjective, a statement is either true or it is not true.

It is only one's opinion of truth that is subjective.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: To a man with no nerves, fire isn't hot because he can't feel it burn his skin

Yet his skin is still ruined. And this is because fire is most assuredly hot. And that is a fact that cannot be disputed. One might be of the opinion that fire is not hot but that doesn't help you much if you stick your hand in a fire.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: To a man with no nerves, fire isn't hot because he can't feel it burn his skin

Yet his skin is still ruined. And this is because fire is most assuredly hot. And that is a fact that cannot be disputed.
Good point..