Political Crossfire Forums

[Saracen]

Now, I know that there is something similar in the MidEast politics section, but here, everyone is welcome to join this debate. I don't want the thread on Islam and Abortion to veer in another different direction.

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: You think that Islam is sucking up to liberalism or socialism?


Socialism specifically. I find it interesting that many radical Islamic groups have deep socialist roots. Take a look at a person named George Habash, for example. There are many, many more, as well.

George Habash is a Christian Palestinian. That negates your claim.

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Cap'n, try to keep the things that unite us between us, and forget about the falsehoods made by the western media that divide us.

Yes, let's concentrate on that.

Sure, fire away...

cap'n queasy wrote: I'm more worried about falsehoods that come from Islamic promoters and sympathizers of terrorism with leftist tendencies, like the idea that you are tentively broaching that Islam may somehow allow abortion. That's a wedge issue between Islamic socialists and western socialists and you are trying to run damage control on it to cement their bonds.

Ok, so what you're saying is that socialists and Muslims are cut from the same cloth just because Islam as a religion is lax on only some of its rules? Wow, and I thought Christianity was the more freedom-loving religion. It's not that I despise Christianity, though. However, I am not branching Islam and twisting it: those are the teachings that were descended down to Muhammad (peace be upon him) from God (Allah or YHWH or any of His 99 Attributes).

However, as the fatwa indicates, abortion is infanticide, but it may be not the case when it comes to certain stages of pregnancy, and that condition is further constrained by the rule that only sick women, dying women, and women who have been raped (even this one is controversial) can abort.

cap'n queasy wrote: I'm just wondering if all of Islam are desperate enough to sell out their religious beliefs to garner support among Western infidels.

Well, that's not the case. Many ultra-conservative Christian priests in the Western world have converted to Islam for purely non-political reasons. And as I and my fellow Muslim brethren have pointed out in the forums, Islam is not a unified body, nor is it some secret conspiracy against the state of Israel.

cap'n queasy wrote: Or in other words, is it really the stricter Islamics that are the terrorists and bad people, or is it the Islamic factions that are based on socialist and other ideologies that originate in western secular societies who are the bad people?

Neither. The more conservative and fundamentalist Muslims are really the ones who are shooting themselves in the foot, so to speak. The real followers of any religion are known only to God, lest I speak a lie. However, it is clear that if you were to read the Koran and Hadith, you will find who really are the ones who peruse the Koran: the violent extremists. The Muslims on the street are more worthy of protection and guidance than Bin Laden and his bunch.

However, socialism is a new philosophy, and a terrible ideology at that. Islam is a religion sacred to 1.4 billion people who differ in their political beliefs. Islam is also more than a millenium and a half old right now. I think you should realize that Muslims are like yourself, Jews and Christians, who fear God and want nothing but to do good in life.

cap'n queasy wrote: I think it is the strict followers who are really the good people. Rather than what you sometimes hear on western leftist media, which is that the strict followers of Islam who are the ones who want to attack us. I think it is really Western socialists and Middle Eastern socialists coming together to attack the economic system that rightfully is the main one on the planet.

So, what you think is that strict Muslims like the ones in Saudi Arabia are the good people? I think you've got it the other way around. Muslims living in Saudi Arabia absolutely loathe the monarchy and its repressive regimes. The really strict followers of Islam are those who follow it better than anyone else. I can tell you many leaders, among them being Amr Khaled, Hamza Yusuf Hanson and others, who are real examples of Islamic faith and piety. The ones who want to attack you are the ones like Bin Laden and his loonies, for all the years of foreign policy intervention on behalf of the U.S. government.

However, to say that MidEastern socialists and western socialists are uniting is as ridiculous as saying that the American Fascist party has any power in America.

cap'n queasy wrote: Many of these folks are like you, and seem to be a little ignorant of certain Islamic precepts at times.

Who are you to distinguish the true followers of Islam from the false ones? God? I don't think so. Read above.

cap'n queasy wrote: I guess the question I want to ask is; Which is the real Islam?

The one that really believes their values and always follows them, who we never hear from in the West or the one that compromises their values for political gain and we hear from all time on the media?

No, the people who really believe their values and always follow them are the true followers at most. The ones who follow bad ideologies do not follow Islam's fundamentals. I eagerly anticipate your reply, queasy. Salaam.

[cap'n queasy]

Quote:
George Habash is a Christian Palestinian. That negates your claim.

George Habash is a socialist who runs an anti-Jewish, anti-Israel leftist terrorist organization organization called the Popular Front for Palestinian Liberation.

He was also a founder of the Arab Nationalist Movement.
Quote: On a 1969 congress, the PFLP re-designated itself a Marxist-Leninist movement, and has remained a Communist organization ever since. Its Pan Arab leanings were somewhat diminished since the ANM days, but the demand for a united Arab world to confront Western imperialism and Zionism remained. It held a hard-line stance on Israel, demanding the complete eradication of this "Zionist entity" through military struggle, in favor of a Palestinian and Arab state, and totally opposing any form of negotiations or compromise with, or recognition of, the Jewish state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Habash

Apparently socialists are a heavy influence in the Palestinian Movement, which has a heavily secular flavor, rather than Islam, which was my claim, so it is hardly negated at all. What does any of this hate based crap have to do with Islam? Not much really, just that they are trying to drag Islam's name through the mud with theirs and stir up some support among people who do not realize this radical movement and Al Quaeda have more to do with political goals than the goals of Islam. They just pose as religious people to get support among the Islamic world.

You only reinforced my point, Saracen. You have pointed out that the Palestinian cause is a national socialist Jew killing cause and not an Islamic one at all.

The PFLP was the second largest group in the PLO, He and Yasser Arafat are old running buddies. BTW Arafat was a member of the household of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a man who created a Muslim arm of the Waffen SS, the most hated troops in the National Socialist Party that created Nazi Germany. So the Palestinians movement's Jew exterminating credentials go straight back to the source. Nazi Germany itself.

It's no wonder all those radical pro-Palestinians that held the protest in New York City where holding up signs that said the Holocaust was a hoax along with their wipe out Israel signs.

They're nothing but National Socialists, Nazis.

Information regarding the PFLP
Quote: The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) (Arabic الجبهة الشعبية لتحرير فلسطين - al-jabhah al-sha`biyyah li-tahrīr filastīn) is a Marxist-Leninist, nationalist Palestinian political and military organization, founded in 1967. It has consistently been the second-largest of the groups forming the Palestinian Liberation Organization (the largest being Fatah), but now has only limited popular support in the Palestinian Territories. It has generally taken a hard line on Palestinian national aspirations, opposing the more moderate stance of Fatah. It opposed the Oslo Accords and was for a long time opposed to the idea of a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but in 1999 came to an agreement with the PLO leadership regarding negotiations with Israel. The US has listed it as one of world's terrorist organizations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine

Other groups in this movement:
PFLP-General Command
Quote: The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command (الجبهة الشعبية لتحرير فلسطين - القيادة العامة) is a left-wing Palestinian nationalist organization, backed by Syria. The US has listed it as one of the world's terrorist organisations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine_-_General_Command
DFLP - a Maoist group
Quote: The Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Arabic: 'الجبهة الديموقراطية لتحرير فلسطين', transliterated Al-Jabha al-Dimuqratiya Li-Tahrir Filastin) is a Palestinian Marxist-Leninist political and military organization. It is also frequently referred to as the Democratic Front, or al-Jabha al-Dimuqratiyah (الجبهة الديموقراطية).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine
PPP
Quote: The Palestinian People's Party (PPP, in Arabic حزب الشعب الفلسطيني Hizb al-Sha'b al-Filastini), founded in 1982 as the Palestinian Communist Party, is a socialist political party in the Palestinian territories and among the Palestinian diaspora.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_People%27s_Party
PLF
Quote: The Palestine Liberation Front (PLF, Abu Abbas faction) - Minor left-wing faction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Front
ALF
Quote: The ALF was founded in April 1969, as the Palestinian branch of the Iraqi-led faction of the Ba'th Party. In June 1969 it became a member of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO). The first leader of ALF was its Secretary-General Zeid Heidar. Other leaders have included Munif al-Razzaz, Abd al-Wahhab al-Kayyali and Abd al-Rahim Ahmad. Today the Secretary-General is Rakad Salem (Abu Mahmoud). ALF has a seat on the PLO Executive Committee, held by Mahmoud Ismael.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Liberation_Front
As-Sa'iqa
Quote:
As-Sa'iqa (also transliterated as al-Saika, Saeqa, etc, from Arabic: الصاعقة meaning storm or thunderbolt; also known as the Vanguard for the Popular Liberation War) is a Palestinian political and military faction created and controlled by Syria. It is the Palestinian branch of the Syrian Ba'th Party, and is a member organisation of the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO), although it is presently not active in the organization.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As-Sa%27iqa
PDU
Quote: The Palestine Democratic Union (Fida) - Minor left-wing faction,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Democratic_Union
PPSF
Quote: The Palestinian Popular Struggle Front (PPSF, occasionally abbr. PSF), (Arabic, jabhat al-nidal al-sha'biyya al-filastiniyya), a militant Palestinian organization. Main branch led by Dr. Samir Ghawshah, with a competing faction led by Khalid ‘Abd al-Majid.

The PPSF was founded as the Palestinian Popular Struggle Organization (PPSO) in the West Bank in 1967. It had close ties to Fatah, and in 1971 it officially became a Fatah-affiliated organization. It fell out with the Arafat leadership in Fatah in 1973, and left the organization to act independently. In 1974 it took a further step, leaving the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) to become a founding member of the Rejectionist Front, in protest of the increasingly moderate politics of Arafat. They think Arafat was moderate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Popular_Struggle_Front
And then of course Fatah.
Fatah
Quote: Fatah (Arabic: فتح); a reverse acronym from the Arabic name Harakat al-Tahrir al-Watani al-Filastini (literally: "Palestinian National Liberation Movement") is a major Palestinian political party and the largest organization in the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), a multi-party confederation. In Palestinian politics it is on the center-left of the spectrum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah
That covers the the groups under the PLO umbrella organization and the Left. All corrupt, all leftist.

On the religious side we have HAMAS and the Muslim Brotherhood, virulent terrorists. Totally dedicated to eradicating Jews. But are they really religious?
Here's an article extolling HAMAS in the the Socialist Worker Online.
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=8204
They use the typical socialist revolutionary tactics and methods, they have the same goals, they do interviews in radical leftist publications. They must be somewhat sympathetic to the radical leftist movements.

But even worse they want to eradicate Jews.
Here is an excerpt from the HAMAS covenant.
Quote: Preface: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (A quote by Imam Hassan al Banna) Just like which others before it is the Imam talking about?
Anyway let's continue.
Quote:
Article 6: "The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine, for under the wing of Islam followers of all religions can coexist in security and safety where their lives, possessions and rights are concerned..."

Article 11: "The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up."

Article 13: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with."

Article 28: "The Zionist invasion is a vicious invasion ... It relies greatly in its infiltration and espionage operations on the secret organizations it gave rise to, such as the Freemasons, The Rotary and Lions clubs, and other sabotage groups. All these organizations, whether secret or open, work in the interest of Zionism and according to its instructions ..."

Article 31: "The Islamic Resistance Movement is a humanistic movement. It takes care of human rights and is guided by Islamic tolerance when dealing with the followers of other religions. It does not antagonize anyone of them except if it is antagonized by it or stands in its way to hamper its moves and waste its efforts. Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other."

Article 32: "After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. [/b]Their plan is embodied in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."[/b][24]

Suicide attacks are an element of what the group sees as its asymmetric warfare against Israel. Since the group considers all Israel to be a "militarized society" (there is mandatory military service for most Jewish men and women) and Israelis to be participants in an illegal occupation of Palestinian land, Hamas does not distinguish between Israeli civilian and military targets. This failure to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants and the group's willingness to target civilian facilities including buses, supermarkets, and restaurants has helped lead to it being labeled a terrorist organization.

Anti-Semitism

Anti-Semitism is a recurring theme in the Hamas Covenant and speeches of its leaders. The Covenant cites The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, describing it as "the embodiment of the Zionist plan to usurp Palestine".
Other examples of Anti-Semitism in their Covenant include:

Introduction: Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised.

Article 7: ... the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

Article 28: ... when the Jews conquered the Holy City in 1967, they stood on the threshold of the Aqsa Mosque and proclaimed that "Mohammed is dead, and his descendants are all women." Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep."

Hamas categorizes the Freemasons, Lions Club, and the Rotarians as organizations promoting "the interest of Zionism." It accuses those organizations, and the "Zionist invasion" in general, of being "behind the drug trade and alcoholism in all its kinds."

Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi, co-founder of Hamas, reiterated beliefs of Holocaust denial as recently as one year before his 2004 death, contending that the Holocaust did not occur in the manner described by Western historians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAMAS

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Holocaust denial, claims of a massive Jewish conspiracy to enslave the world, substituting the term Jew for the term more vague "zionist" when speaking in public and an agenda designed for nothing but plain old Jew killing. Or at best Christians and Jews "living under the arm of Islam". How about just letting them live their own lives, huh?

What exactly makes these guys any different than your average neo-nazi outfit? Why should they have exclusive control of the area? Sounds like they just want to completely dominate it to me. They treat their own Arab brothers like s**t, why would Christians and Jews want to live under their "arm"? Doesn't sound to pleasant at all to me.

They say they follow Islam. Or do they? Do naive somewhat left leaning Americans with good intentions realize what exactly it is they are backing here when they think if George Bush is against something, then it must be something good? Do they really understand the goals and mindset of the radical left and the groups it backs and it's goals? World revolution, that they will stop at nothing to bring to fruitition.
I can't say for sure, but if any people of conscious are reading this I ask them to research some of these groups and who they are linked to and not just take my word for any of it. I admit I'm biased. But I really have to say that IMHO if anyone who takes the time to check some of this stuff out a little may find themselves a little biased against these criminal terrorists, too.

You make the call.

[cap'n queasy]

You say it is the religious Muslim who is the radical, I say it is Marxist/Maoist criminals like the ones I just pointed out.

[Saracen]

cap'n queasy wrote: George Habash is a socialist who runs an anti-Jewish, anti-Israel leftist terrorist organization organization called the Popular Front for Palestinian Liberation.

No, it was not anti-Jewish. It was only anti-Israel. Read the excerpt that you just pulled out.

cap'n queasy wrote: Apparently socialists are a heavy influence in the Palestinian Movement, which has a heavily secular flavor, rather than Islam, which was my claim, so it is hardly negated at all.

What are you talking about? Religion is only one part of that driving force. On the other hand, Palestinian Muslim and Christians are against the occupation resistance-wise. Have you ever heard of the peace rallies and passive resistance demonstrations that have been going on?

Oh, that's right, most of them are really bogged down by the I"D"F.

cap'n queasy wrote: What does any of this hate based crap have to do with Islam? Not much really, just that they are trying to drag Islam's name through the mud with theirs and stir up some support among people who do not realize this radical movement and Al Quaeda have more to do with political goals than the goals of Islam.

That's not true. This hate towards Israel is a historical one, and due to the usurping of their land. You should know better. In that sense, you are, again, trying to associate Islam with terrorists, which is no good association considering that Islam is not a homogenized group.

cap'n queasy wrote: They just pose as religious people to get support among the Islamic world.

Not all of them are religious and they openly admit that they're not.

cap'n queasy wrote: You only reinforced my point, Saracen. You have pointed out that the Palestinian cause is a national socialist Jew killing cause and not an Islamic one at all.

That is not true. All you have to do is google for more resistance fronts. The PFLP was a radical socialist cause but it was founded by a Christian. Other PFLP organizations were founded by Muslims, but were less radical. However, the idea of pushing the Jews into the sea went down long time ago.

cap'n queasy wrote: The PFLP was the second largest group in the PLO, He and Yasser Arafat are old running buddies.

No sh!t.

cap'n queasy wrote: BTW Arafat was a member of the household of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a man who created a Muslim arm of the Waffen SS, the most hated troops in the National Socialist Party that created Nazi Germany.

How do you know that? Hated as in feared by opponents, or hated by the Nazi party itself? Did you know how big a following? Only a few joined his cause, and as pharaoh said, the Mufti had no knowledge about the master plans of the Nazi party: the genocide of the Jews.

Heck, everyone was helping out the Nazis.

cap'n queasy wrote: So the Palestinians movement's Jew exterminating credentials go straight back to the source. Nazi Germany itself.

Bullsh!t. The real resistance to the Israeli occupation is because of what the Israelis are doing. However, the real resistance nowadays is the demonstrations that go on near the apartheid wall that is dividing the west bank into little bantustans.

To say that all Palestinians are associated with Nazi Germany is like saying that all Americans are associated with Nazi Germany because of how people like Prescott Bush financed the Nazis, as well as companies like IBM supplied computers.

cap'n queasy wrote: It's no wonder all those radical pro-Palestinians that held the protest in New York City where holding up signs that said the Holocaust was a hoax along with their wipe out Israel signs.

How do you know? Do you assume that all Palestinians are like that, even though only a few are holding up these signs? I've seen equally bad in an Israeli rally: "Transfer all Jews and Arabs", "End the Arab "occupation" of Jewish land", "Kill 'em all", etc.

cap'n queasy wrote: They're nothing but National Socialists, Nazis.

All of them? Thanks for making my day. :rotf:

By the way, look what you missed:

Wikipedia wrote: It opposed the Oslo Accords and was for a long time opposed to the idea of a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but in 1999 came to an agreement with the PLO leadership regarding negotiations with Israel. The US has listed it as one of world's terrorist organizations.

Obviously, the PFLP is now a moderate group.

cap'n queasy wrote: That covers the the groups under the PLO umbrella organization and the Left. All corrupt, all leftist.

Most of these groups disbanded long time ago. Moreover, these groups were formed out of the radical groups that made up the Israeli Army (creating a monster by abuse). However, I think you should also realize that Palestinian terrorism as it is today was born out of Israeli terrorism as pharaoh mentioned. On the other hand, many of these groups did not engage in terrorist acts, when every single government of Israel really did.

So, what were you saying?

cap'n queasy wrote: They use the typical socialist revolutionary tactics and methods, they have the same goals, they do interviews in radical leftist publications. They must be somewhat sympathetic to the radical leftist movements.

Hamas is not a socialist group. Just because it's "sympathetic" to the radical left doesn't mean that it is really leaning towards them.

However, the State of Israel is a socialist body. It started that way and still is today. Regarding their racist and apartheid policies, they were more Nazi-like.

cap'n queasy wrote: The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Holocaust denial, claims of a massive Jewish conspiracy to enslave the world, substituting the term Jew for the term more vague "zionist" when speaking in public and an agenda designed for nothing but plain old Jew killing.

They're not talking about Jews. They're talking about Zionists. They showed themselves not to be enemies of the Jews when groups like Neturei Karta and other peace activists actually paid visits to these radical groups. Moreover, they're against occupation. However, their resistance is unjustified because they're killing innocent civilians. I refer you to a thread here in the Islam section by the author "Suleiman the Magnificent."

cap'n queasy wrote: Or at best Christians and Jews "living under the arm of Islam". How about just letting them live their own lives, huh?

They're living under the banner of Islam. There is no "arm", but I like it when you invent phrases. You know very well that the two groups lived well under Muslims.

cap'n queasy wrote: What exactly makes these guys any different than your average neo-nazi outfit?

Not more than Israel is. At least Israel has been carrying out a silent Holocaust against the Palestinian people.

cap'n queasy wrote: Why should they have exclusive control of the area? Sounds like they just want to completely dominate it to me. They treat their own Arab brothers like s**t, why would Christians and Jews want to live under their "arm"? Doesn't sound to pleasant at all to me.

Hamas treats Palestinian Christians with respect. There are no Muslims or Christians in the resistance, but only Palestinians. I think you should realize that.

cap'n queasy wrote: They say they follow Islam. Or do they?

No, they don't follow it correctly.

cap'n queasy wrote: Do naive somewhat left leaning Americans with good intentions realize what exactly it is they are backing here when they think if George Bush is against something, then it must be something good?

George Bush isn't always against something good, but he's not always against something bad either. However, these leftists that you speak of heed the words of peace groups like the International Solidarity Movement for Palestine than others.

cap'n queasy wrote: Do they really understand the goals and mindset of the radical left and the groups it backs and it's goals? World revolution, that they will stop at nothing to bring to fruitition.

There is no need for revolution.. They don't want to back radical "leftist" groups. Hamas is rightwing in terms of Palestinian politics.

cap'n queasy wrote: I can't say for sure, but if any people of conscious are reading this I ask them to research some of these groups and who they are linked to and not just take my word for any of it.

Yeah, they shouldn't take your word. Research the groups, and you'll find a lot of good resistance and peace groups out there.

cap'n queasy wrote: I admit I'm biased. But I really have to say that IMHO if anyone who takes the time to check some of this stuff out a little may find themselves a little biased against these criminal terrorists, too.

I'm against terrorists of all kinds, but I support the Palestinians, just like many other people. And I'm pretty sure we outnumber those who support terrorists.

cap'n queasy wrote: You make the call.

So you're assuming that ALL Muslims and all of Islam revolves around Hamas and other radical Palestinian groups? Your government is not using Christianity wisely either. I keep hearing speeches from Dubya that God told him to do things. At least Hamas doesn't do that.

[Saracen]

cap'n queasy wrote: You say it is the religious Muslim who is the radical, I say it is Marxist/Maoist criminals like the ones I just pointed out.

Well, there you go. The religious Muslim like myself isn't a radical, so what do you have against Islam other than the beliefs that counter yours?

[cap'n queasy]

You back radical terrorist groups, so you're a radical. You say your religious, but then have to ask if Islam accepts abortion etc.

Case closed.

Quote: No, it was not anti-Jewish. It was only anti-Israel.
Same thing.

Arabs got over 80% of the British Mandate. Deal with it and move on.

Quit supporting groups that blow people up while they are sitting down eating a falafel. The vast majority of Arabs could care less about the issue that you think is important enough to shoot rockets into Israeli civilians areas and blow yourself up over. The only ones who do support it hate Jews.

Tell your people to pursue something worth while because you already wasted over fifty years trying to steal the last 20% of the Palestinian Mandate. The Palestinians are lucky Israel doesn't treat you like Jordan did when you guys tried to overrun Jordan. Because that is what you deserve for using strongarm methods and losing. No one supports you because they feel sorry for you, they support you because they hate Jews. Look how many Arab countries have gone ahead and accepted Israel. You know why? because there is no percentage in backing a bunch of hateful terrorists that focus on killing innocent people.

Accept Israel, make peace, create your homeland, and do something worth while for a change instead trying to drag everyone else down with your crap. .

It's pretty simple, figure it out.

[Saracen]

cap'n queasy wrote: You back radical terrorist groups, so you're a radical.

Wow, putting words into my mouth. Are you trying to win an already lost debate?

cap'n queasy wrote: You say your religious, but then have to ask if Islam accepts abortion etc.

Islam only accepts abortion in the most severe cases, but it's open to interpretation.

cap'n queasy wrote: Case closed.

Far from it.

cap'n queasy wrote: Same thing.

No, it's not. Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism. Face it.

cap'n queasy wrote: Arabs got over 80% of the British Mandate. Deal with it and move on.

No, they did not. The Jordanian Arabs got Jordan. The Palestinian Arabs have Palestine as their home, not the other way around. The splitting of the two was not because of one land for the Jews and one land for the Palestinians and Jordanians. In case you know, the Jews only owned less than 2% at that time when Transjordan was formed.

cap'n queasy wrote: Quit supporting groups that blow people up while they are sitting down eating a falafel.

That's not what I'm doing. If I were, I would more than just justify what they were doing. I'm not justifying anything or supporting.

I suggest you don't support the Israeli government, but the Israeli people.

cap'n queasy wrote: The vast majority of Arabs could care less about the issue that you think is important enough to shoot rockets into Israeli civilians areas and blow yourself up over.

How do you know? The Arabs I know are only anti-Zionist, not anti-Semitic. Heck, a large proportion of Arabs are pro-Semitic. And you're bringing up a rash assumption. You're stating an opinion that is based on no water or facts.

cap'n queasy wrote: The only ones who do support it hate Jews.

No, they don't. I don't hate Jews. If you think putting words into people's mouths is a way to win a debate, I suggest you take a hike.

cap'n queasy wrote: Tell your people to pursue something worth while because you already wasted over fifty years trying to steal the last 20% of the Palestinian Mandate.

What are you talking about? The initial split after World War 1 was only for Transjordan and Jordanian Arabs, not for the Palestinian Arabs. The Palestinian Arabs are much different. Moreover, the "mandate" only came into effect AFTER Ottoman rule, where many Arabs were living in the said area.

cap'n queasy wrote: The Palestinians are lucky Israel doesn't treat you like Jordan did when you guys tried to overrun Jordan.

Yeah, the Israelis treat the Palestinians much worse.

cap'n queasy wrote: Because that is what you deserve for using strongarm methods and losing.

No, they don't. The Palestinians deserve much more than that. The Israelis are the ones who just came, carved out this land, and took it.

cap'n queasy wrote: No one supports you because they feel sorry for you, they support you because they hate Jews.

Bullsh!t. You're saying that only racists support us? That's a wrong assumption. There are many people who support us for political and religious reasons, and yet most pro-Palestinians are not anti-Semitic. Comprende, dude?

cap'n queasy wrote: Look how many Arab countries have gone ahead and accepted Israel. You know why? because there is no percentage in backing a bunch of hateful terrorists that focus on killing innocent people.

Gone ahead? I wish Israel was just integrated into the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in the name of one state: Palestine-Israel (or Israel-Palestine). The Palestinians are not a bunch of hateful terrorists. Only those who suffer to the max back them out of desperation. I DON'T.

cap'n queasy wrote: Accept Israel, make peace, create your homeland, and do something worth while for a change instead trying to drag everyone else down with your crap. .

..The crap that you're giving me? Yeah, sure. I'll do that.

*cough* (I needed that)

Ok, you want us to make peace with Israel? Bilateral disarmament, 1967 borders and a jurisdiction on East Jerusalem should do the trick.

cap'n queasy wrote: It's pretty simple, figure it out.

Just did, buddy.