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Jufarius87
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 1138
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:55 pm Post subject: question for other christians |
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| if you sin and are repentant, and confess your sin to God is it nessacary to admit your sin to another christian or a party that you may have hurt? scripture would be apprieciated |
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airo
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 2583
Location: Tampa, Florida
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:43 am Post subject: |
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Remember the dude who got crucified next to Christ? Yeah, i didn't see him confessing to a priest, or anyone else for that matter, except for Christ.
He was saved, or so said Christ. |
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John
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 24189
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:55 am Post subject: Re: question for other christians |
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Jufarius87 wrote: if you sin and are repentant, and confess your sin to God is it nessacary to admit your sin to another christian or a party that you may have hurt? scripture would be apprieciated
The ONLY thing that necessary is that you truly accept the Lord Jesus as your Lord and Savior. That's it.
But, personally asking someone you have wronged to forgive you is pleasing to the Father, and you will have fulfilled your part as a Christian. Basically, we're all going to answer for what we do in our lives (saved or not saved).....so clearing things up with the person you hurt is in your best interest....and it's beneficial to the person you hurt. |
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Gilbert1908
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 5246
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Since the question is clearly pointed at the sacrement of confession let me agree with John wholeheartedly and point out that Priests DO NOT FORGIVE SINS, only God can forgive sins, this is Catholic dogma.
A soul need not partake in ANY of the Catholic sacrements and still can be welcomed into heaven with a brass band, or by tradition I suppose a choir of angels.
I know you Catholic haters have a tough time with this one, but I'm afraid it is true. |
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airo
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 2583
Location: Tampa, Florida
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Gilbert1908 wrote: Since the question is clearly pointed at the sacrement of confession let me agree with John wholeheartedly and point out that Priests DO NOT FORGIVE SINS, only God can forgive sins, this is Catholic dogma.
A soul need not partake in ANY of the Catholic sacrements and still can be welcomed into heaven with a brass band, or by tradition I suppose a choir of angels.
I know you Catholic haters have a tough time with this one, but I'm afraid it is true. Of you believe this... then what's the point? |
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Gilbert1908
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 5246
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:26 am Post subject: |
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airo wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Since the question is clearly pointed at the sacrement of confession let me agree with John wholeheartedly and point out that Priests DO NOT FORGIVE SINS, only God can forgive sins, this is Catholic dogma.
A soul need not partake in ANY of the Catholic sacrements and still can be welcomed into heaven with a brass band, or by tradition I suppose a choir of angels.
I know you Catholic haters have a tough time with this one, but I'm afraid it is true. Of you believe this... then what's the point?
My point here is simply to dispel the commonly misunderstood belief 1. Priests forgive sins and 2. That Catholics believe unless you confess your sins to a priest you are doomed.
Both are commonly held beliefs by non-Catholics and often used by anti-Catholics as examples of unreasonable "dogma" when they are simply not true.
That is my point. |
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airo
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 2583
Location: Tampa, Florida
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Gilbert1908 wrote: airo wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Since the question is clearly pointed at the sacrement of confession let me agree with John wholeheartedly and point out that Priests DO NOT FORGIVE SINS, only God can forgive sins, this is Catholic dogma.
A soul need not partake in ANY of the Catholic sacrements and still can be welcomed into heaven with a brass band, or by tradition I suppose a choir of angels.
I know you Catholic haters have a tough time with this one, but I'm afraid it is true. Of you believe this... then what's the point?
My point here is simply to dispel the commonly misunderstood belief 1. Priests forgive sins and 2. That Catholics believe unless you confess your sins to a priest you are doomed.
Both are commonly held beliefs by non-Catholics and often used by anti-Catholics as examples of unreasonable "dogma" when they are simply not true.
That is my point. Point, as in, why do you do them if you don't view them as essential to salvation? |
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John
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 24189
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:35 am Post subject: |
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airo wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: airo wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Since the question is clearly pointed at the sacrement of confession let me agree with John wholeheartedly and point out that Priests DO NOT FORGIVE SINS, only God can forgive sins, this is Catholic dogma.
A soul need not partake in ANY of the Catholic sacrements and still can be welcomed into heaven with a brass band, or by tradition I suppose a choir of angels.
I know you Catholic haters have a tough time with this one, but I'm afraid it is true. Of you believe this... then what's the point?
My point here is simply to dispel the commonly misunderstood belief 1. Priests forgive sins and 2. That Catholics believe unless you confess your sins to a priest you are doomed.
Both are commonly held beliefs by non-Catholics and often used by anti-Catholics as examples of unreasonable "dogma" when they are simply not true.
That is my point. Point, as in, why do you do them if you don't view them as essential to salvation?
Why do you work-out, if it's not essential to survival? |
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airo
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 2583
Location: Tampa, Florida
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:38 am Post subject: |
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John wrote: airo wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: airo wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Since the question is clearly pointed at the sacrement of confession let me agree with John wholeheartedly and point out that Priests DO NOT FORGIVE SINS, only God can forgive sins, this is Catholic dogma.
A soul need not partake in ANY of the Catholic sacrements and still can be welcomed into heaven with a brass band, or by tradition I suppose a choir of angels.
I know you Catholic haters have a tough time with this one, but I'm afraid it is true. Of you believe this... then what's the point?
My point here is simply to dispel the commonly misunderstood belief 1. Priests forgive sins and 2. That Catholics believe unless you confess your sins to a priest you are doomed.
Both are commonly held beliefs by non-Catholics and often used by anti-Catholics as examples of unreasonable "dogma" when they are simply not true.
That is my point. Point, as in, why do you do them if you don't view them as essential to salvation?
Why do you work-out, if it's not essential to survival? It's not?
In many cases, working out, or at least being physically fit, is an essential to survive. I plan on spending the rest of my life under at least one of these situations. That's why i do it. ;)
As for you, John, i'm surprised you're jumping on his bandwagon. You're the friggan poster boy for Anti-legalism. |
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Gilbert1908
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 5246
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:41 am Post subject: |
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airo wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: airo wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Since the question is clearly pointed at the sacrement of confession let me agree with John wholeheartedly and point out that Priests DO NOT FORGIVE SINS, only God can forgive sins, this is Catholic dogma.
A soul need not partake in ANY of the Catholic sacrements and still can be welcomed into heaven with a brass band, or by tradition I suppose a choir of angels.
I know you Catholic haters have a tough time with this one, but I'm afraid it is true. Of you believe this... then what's the point?
My point here is simply to dispel the commonly misunderstood belief 1. Priests forgive sins and 2. That Catholics believe unless you confess your sins to a priest you are doomed.
Both are commonly held beliefs by non-Catholics and often used by anti-Catholics as examples of unreasonable "dogma" when they are simply not true.
That is my point. Point, as in, why do you do them if you don't view them as essential to salvation?
I do them because they are part of the tradition which is required within my faith. Acknowledgement and repentence of sin IS a requirement of all faiths involving the God of Islam, Judaism and Christianity if I am not mistaken. Each deals with this issue in different ways.
And I'm not saying that Confession is not a requirement, I am simply saying the representation by anti-Catholics is often false, it places the priest alone with the power to fogive which is simply untrue. |
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John
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 24189
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:41 am Post subject: |
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airo wrote: John wrote: airo wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: airo wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Since the question is clearly pointed at the sacrement of confession let me agree with John wholeheartedly and point out that Priests DO NOT FORGIVE SINS, only God can forgive sins, this is Catholic dogma.
A soul need not partake in ANY of the Catholic sacrements and still can be welcomed into heaven with a brass band, or by tradition I suppose a choir of angels.
I know you Catholic haters have a tough time with this one, but I'm afraid it is true. Of you believe this... then what's the point?
My point here is simply to dispel the commonly misunderstood belief 1. Priests forgive sins and 2. That Catholics believe unless you confess your sins to a priest you are doomed.
Both are commonly held beliefs by non-Catholics and often used by anti-Catholics as examples of unreasonable "dogma" when they are simply not true.
That is my point. Point, as in, why do you do them if you don't view them as essential to salvation?
Why do you work-out, if it's not essential to survival? It's not?
In many cases, working out, or at least being physically fit, is an essential to survive. I plan on spending the rest of my life under at least one of these situations. That's why i do it. ;)
As for you, John, i'm surprised you're jumping on his bandwagon. You're the friggan poster boy for Anti-legalism.
Exactly my point. I'm sure I do things that you would think are "legalistic", but I do them because it's beneficial...not because my Salvation is on the line.
BTW...I plan on spending the rest of eternity in my situation. :wink: |
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Gilbert1908
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 5246
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:54 am Post subject: |
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airo wrote: John wrote: airo wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: airo wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Since the question is clearly pointed at the sacrement of confession let me agree with John wholeheartedly and point out that Priests DO NOT FORGIVE SINS, only God can forgive sins, this is Catholic dogma.
A soul need not partake in ANY of the Catholic sacrements and still can be welcomed into heaven with a brass band, or by tradition I suppose a choir of angels.
I know you Catholic haters have a tough time with this one, but I'm afraid it is true. Of you believe this... then what's the point?
My point here is simply to dispel the commonly misunderstood belief 1. Priests forgive sins and 2. That Catholics believe unless you confess your sins to a priest you are doomed.
Both are commonly held beliefs by non-Catholics and often used by anti-Catholics as examples of unreasonable "dogma" when they are simply not true.
That is my point. Point, as in, why do you do them if you don't view them as essential to salvation?
Why do you work-out, if it's not essential to survival? It's not?
In many cases, working out, or at least being physically fit, is an essential to survive. I plan on spending the rest of my life under at least one of these situations. That's why i do it. ;)
As for you, John, i'm surprised you're jumping on his bandwagon. You're the friggan poster boy for Anti-legalism.
The fundamental concept of acknowledgement and repentence of sin will find John and I in full agreement.
Catholics have the sacrement of Confession, but you actually sin again if you believe kneeling in front of some guy in robe and listing a bunch of things you did wrong in order to clean the slate off for a while is your goal. Two people going through a prescribed ritual is far different than God's presence at a moment of profound belief and regret for knowingly entering in to sin. |
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airo
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 2583
Location: Tampa, Florida
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:55 am Post subject: |
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John wrote: airo wrote: John wrote: airo wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: airo wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Since the question is clearly pointed at the sacrement of confession let me agree with John wholeheartedly and point out that Priests DO NOT FORGIVE SINS, only God can forgive sins, this is Catholic dogma.
A soul need not partake in ANY of the Catholic sacrements and still can be welcomed into heaven with a brass band, or by tradition I suppose a choir of angels.
I know you Catholic haters have a tough time with this one, but I'm afraid it is true. Of you believe this... then what's the point?
My point here is simply to dispel the commonly misunderstood belief 1. Priests forgive sins and 2. That Catholics believe unless you confess your sins to a priest you are doomed.
Both are commonly held beliefs by non-Catholics and often used by anti-Catholics as examples of unreasonable "dogma" when they are simply not true.
That is my point. Point, as in, why do you do them if you don't view them as essential to salvation?
Why do you work-out, if it's not essential to survival? It's not?
In many cases, working out, or at least being physically fit, is an essential to survive. I plan on spending the rest of my life under at least one of these situations. That's why i do it. ;)
As for you, John, i'm surprised you're jumping on his bandwagon. You're the friggan poster boy for Anti-legalism.
Exactly my point. I'm sure I do things that you would think are "legalistic", but I do them because it's beneficial...not because my Salvation is on the line.
BTW...I plan on spending the rest of eternity in my situation. :wink: And you seem to think that i'm unconcerned about my afterlife? **shrugs**
Eitherway, i just remember the whole Sabbath issue. You've seemed to change your opinions since then. |
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Jufarius87
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 1138
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| although the question may seem to point to cathjolic priest/confession tht was not my intention, i seriously just need to know if it is mandatory to confess sins to another beleiver or to the wronged party..... |
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John
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 24189
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: And you seem to think that i'm unconcerned about my afterlife? **shrugs**
Eitherway, i just remember the whole Sabbath issue. You've seemed to change your opinions since then.
What makes you think that? Just because I make a comment about myself doesn't mean I'm saying you don't.
Sabbath issue? What have I changed my mind about? |
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fourtysixandtwo
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 1012
Location: Mattawan, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| The priest dosen't forgive teh sins, he is merly a way for the person to open up. |
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David Roche
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 519
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:33 am Post subject: |
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Jufarius87 wrote: although the question may seem to point to cathjolic priest/confession tht was not my intention, i seriously just need to know if it is mandatory to confess sins to another beleiver or to the wronged party.....
Look. If you are truly repentant you will not be asking if something is 'mandatory'. Thinking in terms of mandatory makes me think in terms of legalism.
If you are repetant God has read your heart and has forgiven you. That's the concept Christ understood as a Jew. If you are not repetant God has not forgiven you and you can go through all the rigamarole you want and you will still not be forgiven.
I heard a baprtst minister who claimed to belive in Grace tell his congregation that in order to be sure you were forgiven you should go into your closet and stay there until you have confessed all your sins and then when you come out you are forgiven. I left that church service saying how will I know if I havent forgotten one or two. Upon reflection I could see that this 'method' of confession was just a form of legalism in and of itself. It was not Grace at all.
This is an example of the way God deals with sinners and their sins:
Bless the Lord O my soul.....Who pardons all your iniquities; Who heals all your diseases; Who redeems your life from the pit; The Lord performs acts of justice and judgements for all who are oppressed..... He has not dealt with us according to our sins, Nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.....As far as the east is from the west, So far has he removed our transgressions from us.....For He Himself knows our frame; He is mindful that we are but dust. (Psalm 103:1-14)
Thou does not delight in sacrifice otherwise I would give it; Thou art not pleased with burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit. A broken and a contrite heart O God; thou wilt not despise. [note: God forgives in response to repentance, not any priestly blood atonement] (Psalm 51: 16,17). To do judgement and justice is desired by the Lord rather than sacrifice. (Proverbs 21:3). For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; And the knowledge of God, more than burnt offering. (Hosea 6:6)
If you have hurt another individual it is just common courtsey to say I am sorry please forgive me. But if you are not repetant there is no forgiveness whatsoever for you. |
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airo
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 2583
Location: Tampa, Florida
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:36 am Post subject: |
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John wrote: Quote: And you seem to think that i'm unconcerned about my afterlife? **shrugs**
Eitherway, i just remember the whole Sabbath issue. You've seemed to change your opinions since then.
What makes you think that? Just because I make a comment about myself doesn't mean I'm saying you don't.
Sabbath issue? What have I changed my mind about? When i mentioend that i was raised in the SDA church, you seemed to pounce on the whole "Why do you worship on the Sabbath?" stance, citing it was uneeded legalism. At least, that's how i remember it. |
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John
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 24189
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:18 am Post subject: |
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airo wrote: John wrote: Quote: And you seem to think that i'm unconcerned about my afterlife? **shrugs**
Eitherway, i just remember the whole Sabbath issue. You've seemed to change your opinions since then.
What makes you think that? Just because I make a comment about myself doesn't mean I'm saying you don't.
Sabbath issue? What have I changed my mind about? When i mentioend that i was raised in the SDA church, you seemed to pounce on the whole "Why do you worship on the Sabbath?" stance, citing it was uneeded legalism. At least, that's how i remember it.
It is un-needed legalism. As in not needed for Salvation. Anyways the SDA seem to think that Sabbath is about going to church, when in actuality it's about rest.
Going to church on Sunday isn't about "keeping Sabbath"...it's just a day that has been set aside due to tradition to come together and fellowship and worship the Lord as a congregation.
If you want to keep the Sabbath, then rest on Saturday and thank the Lord for His gift of rest. |
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Jufarius87
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 1138
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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David Roche wrote: Jufarius87 wrote: although the question may seem to point to cathjolic priest/confession tht was not my intention, i seriously just need to know if it is mandatory to confess sins to another beleiver or to the wronged party.....
Look. If you are truly repentant you will not be asking if something is 'mandatory'. Thinking in terms of mandatory makes me think in terms of legalism.
If you are repetant God has read your heart and has forgiven you. That's the concept Christ understood as a Jew. If you are not repetant God has not forgiven you and you can go through all the rigamarole you want and you will still not be forgiven.
I heard a baprtst minister who claimed to belive in Grace tell his congregation that in order to be sure you were forgiven you should go into your closet and stay there until you have confessed all your sins and then when you come out you are forgiven. I left that church service saying how will I know if I havent forgotten one or two. Upon reflection I could see that this 'method' of confession was just a form of legalism in and of itself. It was not Grace at all.
This is an example of the way God deals with sinners and their sins:
Bless the Lord O my soul.....Who pardons all your iniquities; Who heals all your diseases; Who redeems your life from the pit; The Lord performs acts of justice and judgements for all who are oppressed..... He has not dealt with us according to our sins, Nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.....As far as the east is from the west, So far has he removed our transgressions from us.....For He Himself knows our frame; He is mindful that we are but dust. (Psalm 103:1-14)
Thou does not delight in sacrifice otherwise I would give it; Thou art not pleased with burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit. A broken and a contrite heart O God; thou wilt not despise. [note: God forgives in response to repentance, not any priestly blood atonement] (Psalm 51: 16,17). To do judgement and justice is desired by the Lord rather than sacrifice. (Proverbs 21:3). For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; And the knowledge of God, more than burnt offering. (Hosea 6:6)
If you have hurt another individual it is just common courtsey to say I am sorry please forgive me. But if you are not repetant there is no forgiveness whatsoever for you.
the point was is it nessacary to attone with other people? i already asked for forgiveness from god |
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