Political Crossfire Forums

[Ssushi]

I've been listening to some BBC Radio 4 programs about the job cuts and the like - most arguments seem to say:

1) We don't like the jobs cuts
2) The NHS is performing better than it has in decades
3) There are some problems but thet're related to the period of change

It's kinda ironic that the tories are running labour down regarding the issue, if you ask me they're siding with the unions (who are complaining about the job losses), simply because it suits their argument.

Overall I'd say that the NHS is in better shape than 10 or 20 years ago.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4931648.stm

[antonio62]

Perhaps they should think about making the NHS more efficient and cutting bureaucrats within the health service before cutting patient care.

[Lord Hargreaves]

Ssushi wrote: I've been listening to some BBC Radio 4 programs about the job cuts and the like - most arguments seem to say:

1) We don't like the jobs cuts
2) The NHS is performing better than it has in decades
3) There are some problems but thet're related to the period of change

It's kinda ironic that the tories are running labour down regarding the issue, if you ask me they're siding with the unions (who are complaining about the job losses), simply because it suits their argument.

Overall I'd say that the NHS is in better shape than 10 or 20 years ago.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4931648.stm

You're missing the point. Next year NHS spending will have tripled from what it was when Labour came to power. Its not about whether it has improved, its about how little it has for so much money. When people still have to type "I'd say that the NHS is in better shape than 10 or 20 years ago." on the back of the largest tax burden since the creation of Great Britain, and with health spending taking a record percentage of that spending, then surely you must understand why the Tories criticise so harshly on this.

[Ssushi]

Lord Hargreaves wrote: Ssushi wrote: I've been listening to some BBC Radio 4 programs about the job cuts and the like - most arguments seem to say:

1) We don't like the jobs cuts
2) The NHS is performing better than it has in decades
3) There are some problems but thet're related to the period of change

It's kinda ironic that the tories are running labour down regarding the issue, if you ask me they're siding with the unions (who are complaining about the job losses), simply because it suits their argument.

Overall I'd say that the NHS is in better shape than 10 or 20 years ago.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4931648.stm

You're missing the point. Next year NHS spending will have tripled from what it was when Labour came to power. Its not about whether it has improved, its about how little it has for so much money. When people still have to type "I'd say that the NHS is in better shape than 10 or 20 years ago." on the back of the largest tax burden since the creation of Great Britain, and with health spending taking a record percentage of that spending, then surely you must understand why the Tories criticise so harshly on this.

It's trippled as under the tories, NHS spending just went down and down. The hospitals have not previously been forced to think about how they spend money vs how they deliver care; now they have to and it is actually working.

[Lord Hargreaves]

Ssushi wrote:

It's trippled as under the tories,

I know I just said that

Ssushi wrote: Yes I just said that NHS spending just went down and down.

Can't really see how thats the case. I don't think spending on the NHS in real terms as ever been cut. In fact Maggie poured money into that bottomless pit too.

Ssushi wrote: The hospitals have not previously been forced to think about how they spend money vs how they deliver care;

WTF? Hospitals have never had to think about money before? I don't understand that you know that isn't true. Whats happened is that Labour has poured and dumped money onto a health service which has not undergone any real and meaningful reform since the 1950s. In terms of its bueraucracy, hierachy and total government monopoly, its the most socialist institution in Europe and should have fell with the Berlin Wall imho. Alas we are still lumbered with it

Ssushi wrote: now they have to and it is actually working.

Like I said, "working" is subjective. Yes, I suppose by quite a few estimates the NHS is "working" if you look purely at performance and not spending. But if you factor in value for money, the NHS is nothing short of a national disgrace.

[Ssushi]

Lord Hargreaves wrote: Ssushi wrote:

It's trippled as under the tories,

I know I just said that


Will you stop acting the dick, when you've passed puberty LHG?

[Lord Hargreaves]

Ssushi wrote: Lord Hargreaves wrote: Ssushi wrote:

It's trippled as under the tories,

I know I just said that


Will you stop acting the dick, when you've passed puberty LHG?

Sorry dude, I just didn't know where you were going by repeating me :wink:

[Ssushi]

Lord Hargreaves wrote: Ssushi wrote: Lord Hargreaves wrote: Ssushi wrote:

It's trippled as under the tories,

I know I just said that


Will you stop acting the dick, when you've passed puberty LHG?

Sorry dude, I just didn't know where you were going by repeating me :wink:

Well that's the thing about sentances isn't it - you have to read the whole thing for the first part to make sense:

Quote: It's trippled as under the tories, NHS spending just went down and down.

I saw the stats on the BBC web site about a year ago (can't find it now so choose to believe me or not) and under the last conservative term, the NHS spending was run down significantly. Labour has had to invest huge amounts of money just to return spending to pre-tory days.

Now, in terms of the efficiency of the spending - I know from my job that fast, massive investments of money do in fact result in waste. It's simply a fact that if you want fast change, you'll get waste. But the hospitals and trusts themselves are responsible for their budgets and need to sort it out:

a) People are complaining about the excessive amount of money being pumped into the NHS
b) The hospitals are complaining about having to make cuts

These two statements are contradictory! Reading between the lines; the HNS is having to change the way it works and make more and more of the $$ it gets instead of blowing it away...

They're doing it; case example:

I broke my arm a few years ago and had to have pins in it, when I returned t o the hospital to have the pins removed the specialist said that I'd come in in the morning and leave that day - that normally I'd be in for 2-3 days but they can nolonger do that. He also said that when they started doing this, they realised that it was fine and that they were wasting time and money before. This exact example has been reflected by many hospitals - Blair is simply forcing Dr's to examine HOW they give care and quite rightly.

Now, Labour and the hospitals need to work more on efficiency, so the tax payer get more for his/her money.