Political Crossfire Forums

[Clara Listensprechen]

Duchifas wrote: Clara Listensprechen wrote: Duchifas wrote: Clara Listensprechen wrote: For starters, I can confirm that The Bible claims that God made bugs with 4 legs and I can confirm that this world doesn't have a single bug which has 4 legs. I got news for you--bats aren't birds, either, and snails don't melt. The Bible says they are, and they do. If that is a mistake, then God makes mistakes.

Some God.

I think for starters we should all be a little less arrogant than we are.

Since you don't speak for anyone but yourself, I agree concerning your plural personalities. Chuck the arrogance then get back to me.

Well, I was actually referring to you.


You mistook me for one of your multiples. I'm only one person who isn't 'arrogant enough to make arrogant pronouncements about other people in multiples. When you quit looking in the mirror and mistaking yourself for me, get back to me.

[Clara Listensprechen]

UrielsFyre wrote: Clara Listensprechen wrote: Quote: I don't your point as being valid.

:D
I don't about that.

The trick in magic is knowing the technology of it. Try reading Mark Twain's "Connecticut Yankee In King Arthur's Court" as a primer. The works of Mark Twain, while literary classics, are hardly primers on magick.

It's a primer on technology that's been labeled magic. Your magic is somebody else's technology.

[Enoch]

Clara Listensprechen wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: Clara Listensprechen wrote: Quote: I don't your point as being valid.

:D
I don't about that.

The trick in magic is knowing the technology of it. Try reading Mark Twain's "Connecticut Yankee In King Arthur's Court" as a primer. The works of Mark Twain, while literary classics, are hardly primers on magick.

It's a primer on technology that's been labeled magic. Your magic is somebody else's technology. No, magick is magick...it is spiritual and energy. There is nothing technology about it.

[Duchifas]

Clara Listensprechen wrote: Duchifas wrote: Clara Listensprechen wrote: Duchifas wrote: Clara Listensprechen wrote: For starters, I can confirm that The Bible claims that God made bugs with 4 legs and I can confirm that this world doesn't have a single bug which has 4 legs. I got news for you--bats aren't birds, either, and snails don't melt. The Bible says they are, and they do. If that is a mistake, then God makes mistakes.

Some God.

I think for starters we should all be a little less arrogant than we are.

Since you don't speak for anyone but yourself, I agree concerning your plural personalities. Chuck the arrogance then get back to me.

Well, I was actually referring to you.


You mistook me for one of your multiples. I'm only one person who isn't 'arrogant enough to make arrogant pronouncements about other people in multiples. When you quit looking in the mirror and mistaking yourself for me, get back to me.

A second in the series of your excellent, thought-provoking replies that goes to the substance.

Well, I believe I've made my point here. You can return to your regularly scheduled confirmations that you know everything in the world.

[Clara Listensprechen]

Like I always say--time spent on research into reliable sources is always time well spent.

Try it sometime.

[cap'n queasy]

mattwa33193 wrote: Alternate theory for the "Tower of Babel" is that it is a mis-translation. What we believe was a tower was actually a (relatively) low building that was used as an astronomical observatory, much like Stonehenge is believed to have been used.

Credit - Neal Stephenson :)

Bab= portal
El= God

Perhaps it wasn't a really tall building that is being described there.

[cap'n queasy]

Clara Listensprechen wrote: Like I always say--time spent on research into reliable sources is always time well spent.

Try it sometime.

Here is a person who thinks claiming that the internet is totally unreliable gives them a pass to say anything they want and not have to back it up at all.

Like I told you before, we accept publishers info, Library of Congress catalog number, name of author and book, and page number as a verifiable source. .

A transcript of the passage would help your case some, as well.

But as far as I can see you have no interest in conveying any information to add to the gestalt.

You just want to rant and rave.

You're just another one of the crazies wandering around on the internet spewing their garbage. And if one searchs your name they get a list of the hundreds of forums you have been spamming just like you are doing here.

You have serious mental problems, take my advice, seek some medical attention.

Please. For your own good.

[John]

cap'n queasy wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Alternate theory for the "Tower of Babel" is that it is a mis-translation. What we believe was a tower was actually a (relatively) low building that was used as an astronomical observatory, much like Stonehenge is believed to have been used.

Credit - Neal Stephenson :)

Bab= portal
El= God

Perhaps it wasn't a really tall building that is being described there.

The movie stargate is a play on the idea.

[cap'n queasy]

Something like that, but more of a spiritual "stargate" I would say.

[wormwood]

Quote: No, my point is that something so powerful that was discovered so early in our history and by so many different groups all across the globe surely would have been discovered by science now. Admitetdly, it's impossible to quantify the probability, but do you expect me to believe that they would discover quantum physics before magic? What about Jeane Dixon? :wink:

Quote: No, impossible. He would've needed MAGIC to make it work. Unless, the story that you are familiar with is simply the garment of the true event. Everything before Abraham is very similar to the account given by religion of Sumeria, except the Hebrew versions seem to be condensed and more symbolic than the older versions.

Quote: The word they used, specifically, was "the heavens." In the Bible, there's usually fairly little distinction between the sky, space, and heaven. The people thought, that by building a tall enough structure, they could essentially build a stairway to heaven. So, obviously, such a structure couldn't just stretch out into the sky, but actually near or even into space, which is far larger than the Ziggurat. It also supposedly contained the population of the entire Earth. I would read Cap's response to this. A similar story exists in Babylonian mythology with the same result of having the world's languages confused. Also, have you seen Egyptian or Hindu gods pictured in "boats of the sky" before? :wink:

Quote: However, need I remind that according to the same date, there were other civilizations around in other places. Civilizations in China date as far back as 16th century B.C.E.. So, the claim that everyone lived there is false. And need I remind you that Young-Earth Creationism itself is disproven by numerous means of science, Personally I would date the arrival of people in China even earlier. The religion of Sumeria spread all the way to India around the time of India's first civilization (check the Vedic texts I believe), I don't think it's inconceivable that it made it to China. I do not believe in a young earth by the way.

Quote: All four of these methods are verified against one another. In fact, verifying that there were discrepencies was precisely how carbon-dating today is calibrated to give calendar dates -- contrary to the claim of Creationists' that the amount of carbon in the atmosphere is unknown. I have never heard that particular argument. I do know that carbon dating is questionable and has proved that there are factors that distort date (see debunking the shroud of Turin).

Quote: The claim that there is a "transitional form" or "missing link," is a myth about evolution propagated by Creationists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_link#Misconceptions Did you read your link? It isn't a myth, scientists just don't believe that a fossil of every state would have been left. What is interesting to me, is that when some scientists say : Quote: Thus, the transition itself can only be illustrated and corroborated by transitional fossils, but it will never be known in detail. However, progressing research and discovery managed to fill in several gaps and continues to do so. ...some people will except this as a fact, but when religion makes a claim with circumstantial evidence that can not be proved, the same people will instantly use this as a means to discredit the proposition 8:) . To me, this says that no matter what, you will find what you are looking for...

Quote: I question how they could have "never died," and it seems as though you're just pulling out magical theories out of thin air to correct the Bible's contradictions. First, this is a perfect example of what I was saying above... your link says most creatures don't leave fossils and you accept that, but now you want fossil proof of a handful of mythical creatures that were created through abomination of the Nephilim. Which leads to my second point, the Nephilim did not have to die, they were fallen angels. These same beings are described in various cultures from all over the world, and they are almost always associated with animals (snakes, bulls etc) and creatures that are half man half beast...the same type of creatures the bibles says they created when they took the daughters of men..."the monsters and heroes of legend". Just a thought.

Quote: I concede that there's a chance that such fossils could exist, but we just haven't found them yet. But we cannot claim that such a thing exists until there is evidence for it. Ok, but if I am confined to this premise then so are you... we can not believe that there was a transitional creature that was the precursor to homo sapiens...so you are left with two choices as far as I can tell. 1) humanity was created or 2) humanity as a species evolved overnight from some vastly different humanoid creature. 8:)


Quote: Furthermore, the entire Bible happens throughout the Middle East, making no mention of outside cultures, thus the claim that they are in China is dubious. That is because the Torah deals with Israel...if you want the story of the world, look to the other ancient religions...again I refer you to the Vedic texts... or Sumerian tablets...or the ancient Mayans...or the Egyptians. (Hint: their gods are all the same beings :wink: )

Quote: It's disputed. Some Jews and Christians say it's allegorical, others say it's literal. It's tough to say. One thing I find interesting is that exodus 20:4 forbids making images of anything that is in heaven above or in the earth below or that is in the water under the earth. What could be in the water below the earth that God does not want us making images of?

[cap'n queasy]

The people who built it wanted to bring God, a holy being, into the material realm.

But the thing is, someone had already made this necessary.

Adam and Eve. The Messiah is how God chose to come into this realm because of our foolish choice that made this necessary. The Babel incident is a replay of this first act of rebellion. That's why it was so bad. The golden calf incident is similar, as well. The Hebrews consider the "sin of the golden calf" to be the worst thing we can do. I think they have it partially right, but I have never seen that they have made the same connection I have here.

Why is this a foolish choice? Because the unadulterated presence of the Father would destroy material reality. So in His mercy He incarnated Himself into a flesh body and made it possible for us to leave this realm our foolish choice to disobey had brought us to.

We are lost little lambs and He is our shepherd.

Get it?

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: Furthermore, the entire Bible happens throughout the Middle East, making no mention of outside cultures, thus the claim that they are in China is dubious.

Do you have any idea where the term Sinology comes from?

[Duchifas]

Clara Listensprechen wrote: Like I always say--time spent on research into reliable sources is always time well spent.

Try it sometime.

Statements of the Director of Science at London's Natural History Museum carry a little more credibility than your "confirmations."

But thank you for the suggestion. It was very kind of you.

[Enoch]

John wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Alternate theory for the "Tower of Babel" is that it is a mis-translation. What we believe was a tower was actually a (relatively) low building that was used as an astronomical observatory, much like Stonehenge is believed to have been used.

Credit - Neal Stephenson :)

Bab= portal
El= God

Perhaps it wasn't a really tall building that is being described there.

The movie stargate is a play on the idea.

One of my favorite movies by the way.

Okay...that's all I had to say.

Back to the topic at hand....

[thefranzkafkafront]

John wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Alternate theory for the "Tower of Babel" is that it is a mis-translation. What we believe was a tower was actually a (relatively) low building that was used as an astronomical observatory, much like Stonehenge is believed to have been used.

Credit - Neal Stephenson :)

Bab= portal
El= God

Perhaps it wasn't a really tall building that is being described there.

The movie stargate is a play on the idea.




How involved was Macgyver in the orginal tower of bable?

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Alternate theory for the "Tower of Babel" is that it is a mis-translation. What we believe was a tower was actually a (relatively) low building that was used as an astronomical observatory, much like Stonehenge is believed to have been used.

Credit - Neal Stephenson :)

Bab= portal
El= God

Perhaps it wasn't a really tall building that is being described there.
That's a very interesting idea, although I'm not sure if the Hebrew works out quite that way. I believe that in Hebrew, "Babel" is spelled "beth-beth-lamed" while "El" is obviously spelled "aleph-lamed".. In other words, in Hebrew you're not going to be able to extract an "el" out of "Babel", at least not in the written script. Such extraction is an artifact of the English transliteration, moreso than the Hebrew characters themselves.

However, phonetically, what you say is true enough. It sounds (to the ear) like those are the two words which are compounded together to form the word "Babel".. Maybe there's something to it.

Very interesting.. :-D

[psholtz]

mattwa33193 wrote: Alternate theory for the "Tower of Babel" is that it is a mis-translation. What we believe was a tower was actually a (relatively) low building that was used as an astronomical observatory, much like Stonehenge is believed to have been used.

Credit - Neal Stephenson :)
Which Neal Stephenson book is that?

[cap'n queasy]

psholtz wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Alternate theory for the "Tower of Babel" is that it is a mis-translation. What we believe was a tower was actually a (relatively) low building that was used as an astronomical observatory, much like Stonehenge is believed to have been used.

Credit - Neal Stephenson :)

Bab= portal
El= God

Perhaps it wasn't a really tall building that is being described there.
That's a very interesting idea, although I'm not sure if the Hebrew works out quite that way. I believe that in Hebrew, "Babel" is spelled "beth-beth-lamed" while "El" is obviously spelled "aleph-lamed".. In other words, in Hebrew you're not going to be able to extract an "el" out of "Babel", at least not in the written script. Such extraction is an artifact of the English transliteration, moreso than the Hebrew characters themselves.

However, phonetically, what you say is true enough. It sounds (to the ear) like those are the two words which are compounded together to form the word "Babel".. Maybe there's something to it.

Very interesting.. :-D
Well, actually the word is Bab El. Not one word.

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: psholtz wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Alternate theory for the "Tower of Babel" is that it is a mis-translation. What we believe was a tower was actually a (relatively) low building that was used as an astronomical observatory, much like Stonehenge is believed to have been used.

Credit - Neal Stephenson :)

Bab= portal
El= God

Perhaps it wasn't a really tall building that is being described there.
That's a very interesting idea, although I'm not sure if the Hebrew works out quite that way. I believe that in Hebrew, "Babel" is spelled "beth-beth-lamed" while "El" is obviously spelled "aleph-lamed".. In other words, in Hebrew you're not going to be able to extract an "el" out of "Babel", at least not in the written script. Such extraction is an artifact of the English transliteration, moreso than the Hebrew characters themselves.

However, phonetically, what you say is true enough. It sounds (to the ear) like those are the two words which are compounded together to form the word "Babel".. Maybe there's something to it.

Very interesting.. :-D
Well, actually the word is Bab El. Not one word.
Which word is Bab El?

In the Torah, "Babel" (i.e., the place where the "tower" was and the seat of where Babylon was) is always spelled as one word, beth-beth-lamed (בבל).

Check the wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babel

Interestingly enough, the wikipedia gives the same explanation of Babel as you do ("gate of god"), at least so far as the Akkadian is concerned.

[mattwa33193]

psholtz wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Alternate theory for the "Tower of Babel" is that it is a mis-translation. What we believe was a tower was actually a (relatively) low building that was used as an astronomical observatory, much like Stonehenge is believed to have been used.

Credit - Neal Stephenson :)
Which Neal Stephenson book is that?

Snowcrash