Political Crossfire Forums

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Looks like Sholtz found himself a possible girlfriend. :lol:

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

John wrote: Colossians 1

13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.

17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,

20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

What exactly do you think is meant here, when it says that Jesus is the "image of the invisible God"?

And what could possibly be the meaning of the statement that "in Him all things hold together"?

Well - as per your bolded, I would have to say that:

15 is saying that he (Jesus Christ) is in the image of God (his Father).
17 is saying that he (Jesus Christ) was before all things, and is reiterating verse 16, that he created all things.
19 is referring to the fullness of God the Father's power, that he endowed his Son, Jesus Christ, with.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24188

psholtz wrote: John wrote: "hizzownbadself" :lol:

Of course we should be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves. There are dark forces at hand that only want to see us destroyed.
Gee John, when I quoted that Jesus verse to you, you told me that wisdom is foolishness, and that we should avoid wisdom at all costs..

Have you had a change of heart?

Why do you constantly lie?

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: "hizzownbadself" :lol:

Of course we should be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves. There are dark forces at hand that only want to see us destroyed.
Gee John, when I quoted that Jesus verse to you, you told me that wisdom is foolishness, and that we should avoid wisdom at all costs..

Have you had a change of heart?

Why do you constantly lie?
It's not a lie John...

I've told you many times that Jesus commanded us to be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves, and you've responded many times by telling me that the "wisdom of this world" is mere foolishness in the eyes of God.

I've noticed that fundies like you have this tendency to put St. Paul on a higher pedastal than Jesus, more esp when (a) the teachings of St. Paul appear "easier" than those of Jesus; and (b) when the teachings of St. Paul appear to be in direct contradiction to those of Jesus. Under such cases, I've noticed that you (and other Zionist Christians) tend to opt for the "easy" St. Paul interpretation (and it's a false interpretation at that, but no matter), rather than adhering to what Jesus taught.

This is one of those (many) examples.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24188

psholtz wrote: John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: "hizzownbadself" :lol:

Of course we should be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves. There are dark forces at hand that only want to see us destroyed.
Gee John, when I quoted that Jesus verse to you, you told me that wisdom is foolishness, and that we should avoid wisdom at all costs..

Have you had a change of heart?

Why do you constantly lie?
It's not a lie John...

I've told you many times that Jesus commanded us to be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves, and you've responded many times by telling me that the "wisdom of this world" is mere foolishness in the eyes of God.

I've noticed that fundies like you have this tendency to put St. Paul on a higher pedastal than Jesus, more esp when (a) the teachings of St. Paul appear "easier" than those of Jesus; and (b) when the teachings of St. Paul appear to be in direct contradiction to those of Jesus. Under such cases, I've noticed that you (and other Zionist Christians) tend to opt for the "easy" St. Paul interpretation (and it's a false interpretation at that, but no matter), rather than adhering to what Jesus taught.

This is one of those (many) examples.

Please stop misrepresenting me. You lie and twist things around and it's really getting old.

But this wisdom you should know;

Philippians 3
18 For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ,

19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.

20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24188

Clara Listensprechen wrote: That would contradict that "truth will set you free" line. Face it: God made a world where deception is required for survival, and he created Darwin to say as much.

Are you free Clara?

John 8
31 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;

32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

33 They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, 'You will become free'?"

34 Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

35 "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.

36 "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

John wrote: But this wisdom you should know;

Philippians 3
18 For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ,

19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.

20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
That sounds more like a job description for some of the Zionist Christians I know, moreso than a description of "wisdom"..

Wisdom you'll find in the Proverbs and in Ecclesiastes (and in the Pslams, so some extent).. well, actually you'll find it throughout the Bible, but more especially in those parts. So how about the next time I post a quote from Proverbs or Ecclesiastes, you don't snipe back w/ some absurd "but the wisdom of this world is foolishness in the eyes of God" crap, and maybe you won't have this problem anymore where you think that I'm "misrepresenting" you and "mischaracterizing" you?

Sounds like a plan to me..

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24188

psholtz wrote: John wrote: But this wisdom you should know;

Philippians 3
18 For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ,

19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.

20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
That sounds more like a job description for some of the Zionist Christians I know, moreso than a description of "wisdom"..

Wisdom you'll find in the Proverbs and in Ecclesiastes (and in the Pslams, so some extent).. well, actually you'll find it throughout the Bible, but more especially in those parts. So how about the next time I post a quote from Proverbs or Ecclesiastes, you don't snipe back w/ some absurd "but the wisdom of this world is foolishness in the eyes of God" crap, and maybe you won't have this problem anymore where you think that I'm "misrepresenting" you and "mischaracterizing" you?

Sounds like a plan to me..

I have no idea what you're talking about.

But offer you an answer of wisdom that remains on the topic of this thread.

Ephesians 1
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

8which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight

9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him

10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: That sounds more like a job description for some of the Zionist Christians

Hmmm. And it's found in the Bible.

Imagine that.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: Wisdom you'll find in the Proverbs and in Ecclesiastes

Hmmm. Let's see what Ecclasiastes has to say about wisdom.

Quote: The Futility of Wisdom

Ecclesiastes 1:12 I, the Preacher, have been king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 And I set my mind to seek and explore by wisdom concerning all that has been done under heaven. It is a grievous task which God has given to the sons of men to be afflicted with. 14 I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. 15 What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted.

16 I said to myself, "Behold, I have magnified and increased wisdom more than all who were over Jerusalem before me; and my mind has observed a wealth of wisdom and knowledge." 17 And I set my mind to know wisdom and to know madness and folly; I realized that this also is striving after wind. 18 Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain.

"And I set my mind to know wisdom and to know madness and folly; I realized that this also is striving after wind."
That doesn't sound much like an endorsement for the Gnostic impulse to me.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: Mt 12:42 -
"The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here.

Something......greater..........than..........wisom.........(sound of mind expanding)

Arggghhhh. nnnooooo

HELP ME I'M MELTING!

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Wisdom you'll find in the Proverbs and in Ecclesiastes

Hmmm. Let's see what Ecclasiastes has to say about wisdom.

Quote: The Futility of Wisdom

Ecclesiastes 1:12 I, the Preacher, have been king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 And I set my mind to seek and explore by wisdom concerning all that has been done under heaven. It is a grievous task which God has given to the sons of men to be afflicted with. 14 I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. 15 What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted.

16 I said to myself, "Behold, I have magnified and increased wisdom more than all who were over Jerusalem before me; and my mind has observed a wealth of wisdom and knowledge." 17 And I set my mind to know wisdom and to know madness and folly; I realized that this also is striving after wind. 18 Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain.

"And I set my mind to know wisdom and to know madness and folly; I realized that this also is striving after wind."
That doesn't sound much like an endorsement for the Gnostic impulse to me.
There we go.. that's better.

That's the good Zionist Christian I remember!

* Wisdom is bad and evil
* Adolf Hitler and Jeffrey Dahlmer are in Heaven right now
* Christ's parable of the mustard seed is a description of Hell, not of Heaven

Keeping talking, cap'n.. I think it's clear to everyone just who's team you're really playing for..

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Mt 12:42 -
"The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here.

Something......greater..........than..........wisom.........(sound of mind expanding)

Arggghhhh. nnnooooo

HELP ME I'M MELTING!
Yes indeed, cap'n... Melting indeed..

Such is the fate of all the Lawless Ones who follow the vanity of their own imaginations, rather than adhering to the Law of God.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24188

psholtz wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Wisdom you'll find in the Proverbs and in Ecclesiastes

Hmmm. Let's see what Ecclasiastes has to say about wisdom.

Quote: The Futility of Wisdom

Ecclesiastes 1:12 I, the Preacher, have been king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 And I set my mind to seek and explore by wisdom concerning all that has been done under heaven. It is a grievous task which God has given to the sons of men to be afflicted with. 14 I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. 15 What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted.

16 I said to myself, "Behold, I have magnified and increased wisdom more than all who were over Jerusalem before me; and my mind has observed a wealth of wisdom and knowledge." 17 And I set my mind to know wisdom and to know madness and folly; I realized that this also is striving after wind. 18 Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain.

"And I set my mind to know wisdom and to know madness and folly; I realized that this also is striving after wind."
That doesn't sound much like an endorsement for the Gnostic impulse to me.
There we go.. that's better.

That's the good Zionist Christian I remember!

* Wisdom is bad and evil
* Adolf Hitler and Jeffrey Dahlmer are in Heaven right now
* Christ's parable of the mustard seed is a description of Hell, not of Heaven

Keeping talking, cap'n.. I think it's clear to everyone just who's team you're really playing for..

See....you lie and twist things around to serve your purposes.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Try this on for size.

*Wisdom is futile, we need something greater than that.

*All have a possibility of salvation, not just a "wise" elite. Reach out and take it, even if you really have screwed up bad.

*Christ's parable of the mustard seed is a description of our futile efforts to turn our ideas of wisdom and goodness into the kingdom of heaven on earth.
A monstrosity that is run through with sin.

Comprende?

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: Such is the fate of all the Lawless Ones who follow the vanity of their own imaginations, rather than adhering to the Law of God.

Oh my! how Pharisaical of you. Don't you know that the law written in the heart is to Love God, and to love your brothers? This is the new covenant.

This is the old one.
Quote: Ro 3:20 -
because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Since you have such a tight focus of Law it seems to me that you would realize that you have a heavy burden on your shoulders.

Where are you gonna put it?

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

cap'n queasy wrote: *Christ's parable of the mustard seed is a description of our futile efforts to turn our ideas of wisdom and goodness into the kingdom of heaven on earth.
A monstrosity that is run through with sin.
Christ's parable of the mustard is quite plainly and quite obviously a parable of Heaven.

It has nothing to do w/ monstrosities run through w/ sin..

Comprende?

Who's the one lying and twisting things around??

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Such is the fate of all the Lawless Ones who follow the vanity of their own imaginations, rather than adhering to the Law of God.

Oh my! how Pharisaical of you. Don't you know that the law written in the heart is to Love God, and to love your brothers? This is the new covenant.
What fate do you believe befalls the Lawless Ones?

I think it was spelled out in sufficient detail by the Master himself in Matthew 7:21-23

Quote: This is the old one.
Quote: Ro 3:20 -
because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Since you have such a tight focus of Law it seems to me that you would realize that you have a heavy burden on your shoulders.
I don't much care for what passes amongst the Jews as "Law"... I think you're keenly aware of that by now.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

You don't care much for law at all. Because all law, not just Jewish law, makes one concious of sin and you don't want to see that you are a sinner too.

It irritates your elite sensitivities.

man=law
man=wisdom
man=works

God =salvation

2+2+2=6 every time. You need 7.

How are you gonna get it?

Savvy?

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

cap'n queasy wrote: You don't care much for law at all. Because all law, not just Jewish law, makes one concious of sin and you don't want to see that you are a sinner too.

It irritates your elite sensitivities.

man=law
man=wisdom
man=works

God =salvation

2+2+2=6 every time. You need 7.

How are you gonna get it?

Savvy?
The Law comes from God, quesy.. not man..