Political Crossfire Forums

[John]

Colossians 1

13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.

17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,

20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.






What exactly do you think is meant here, when it says that Jesus is the "image of the invisible God"?

And what could possibly be the meaning of the statement that "in Him all things hold together"?

[Clara Listensprechen]

That was written by a man who was a satanist and confessed:

Quote: Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you. Yet, crafty fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery!
2 Cor 12:16

In other words, the Image of God may very well be a cruel delusion:

Quote: Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the creator--who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way, the menalso abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversions. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what might not to be done.
Romans 1:24-28
So given that this is the punishment, no hell for these guys, huh.
Quote: ...but for Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone". As it is written:
See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble, a rock that makes them fall and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.
Romans 9:31-33, quoting Isaiah 8:14 / 28:16
Quote: What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, as it is written:
"God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see, and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day"
And David says:
"May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them. May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever."
Romans 11:7-10 which quotes Isaiah 65:2 and Psalm 69:22-23
Quote: The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that decieves those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. [b]For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
2 Thess 2:9-12 God deludes you to make absolutely sure you're condemned. Some God.
Quote: His disciples asked him what this parable meant. He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the Kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables so that:
"Though seeing, they may not see, though hearing, they may not understand."
Luke 8:9-10 quoting Isaiah 6:9
Quote: Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:
"Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?"
For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:
"He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts so they can neither see with their eyes nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--or I would heal them"
John 12:37-39 quoting Isaiah 53:1 and Isaiah 6:10

[John]

Clara Listensprechen wrote: That was written by a man who was a satanist and confessed:

Quote: Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you. Yet, crafty fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery!
2 Cor 12:16

Read in it context, Paul is plainly being sarcastic. Basically he's making the point that if he was tricking them for gain as he was being accused...then it sure was silly that he didn't gain anything.

Are you going to play the game of quoting out of context?

[cap'n queasy]

She hasn't been on the forum very long, but she seems to do stuff like that every post.

She called a peace treaty signed by Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Israel a unilateral action in another thread.

:lol:

[John]

Quote: In other words, the Image of God may very well be a cruel delusion:

Quote: Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the creator--who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way, the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversions. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what might not to be done.


Ok, this is talking about how when a people reject God they will always end up in all types of sinful lifestyles. We can see this happening in America. The further the nation slips away from honoring God....the more popular things like homosexuality become.

What does this have to do with the subject at hand?

[Clara Listensprechen]

You can't see that the same guy that wrote the quote that you quoted also believed in a deceptive God; I'm saying that this image could well be a delusion because deluding people is what Paul says God does.

[cap'n queasy]

Huh?

[Clara Listensprechen]

Huh what? The Bible says God sends delusions. Image of God could very well be one of 'em. Paul says he is a deceptive God. If you believe in The Bible as The Word of God, then you believe what Paul says.

You also believe in The Lord's Prayer where Jesus entreats God to "lead us not into temptation", indicating quite clearly that this is something that God can and will do.

[John]

Clara Listensprechen wrote: You can't see that the same guy that wrote the quote that you quoted also believed in a deceptive God; I'm saying that this image could well be a delusion because deluding people is what Paul says God does.

No...that's not what Paul’s said. He said that God will allow you to delude yourself. Everyone who chooses sin over the Truth is living a delusion.


The other passages you quoted are about how the Jews are blinded by the works of their own hands. That Jesus is a stumbling stone to them because He doesn't fit what they had expected God to do. They have based their worship of God around their personal pride instead of truly wanting to know and love God. Basically they have been blinded by their own man made “traditions of the elders”. They will not be saved until they cry out to their Savior (see Matthew 23:39).

But even still it's all part of the plan of getting more people to accept and see the Truth. The Jews who finally see, in the end times will play a major part in God's plan to save a lot of people from themselves.

[Clara Listensprechen]

What part of "GOD sends them a powerful delusion" do you not understand? Looks like you're making the claim that Man = God.

[cap'n queasy]

Clara Listensprechen wrote: Huh what? The Bible says God sends delusions. Image of God could very well be one of 'em. Paul says he is a deceptive God. If you believe in The Bible as The Word of God, then you believe what Paul says.

You also believe in The Lord's Prayer where Jesus entreats God to "lead us not into temptation", indicating quite clearly that this is something that God can and will do.

Thanks for proclaiming what I believe for me.

Your reading comprehension seems to be rather limited, whether it is a history book or a Bible.

[Clara Listensprechen]

And it's clear to me that you refuse to read what's actually written.

Another of God's delusions, doubtless.

[cap'n queasy]

:lol:

[John]

Clara Listensprechen wrote: What part of "GOD sends them a powerful delusion" do you not understand? Looks like you're making the claim that Man = God.

Again..you're misunderstanding is caused by a lack of understanding context.

What is being spoken of here is a falling away in "Christian" circles. In this context, the apostle speaks about a coming apostasy in the churches that claim to be Christian but take pleasure in unrighteousness, instead of having a love for the truth. We see this today in churches that claim to be Christian but accept sinful lifestyles as being normal. They take pleasure in their unrighteousness, some even make commercials advertising and bragging about it. Yes, if you resist the will of God and reject the calling of the Holy Spirit in your life...you will be lost over to strong delusions. These people are convinced that what they are doing is right. It is a dangerous thing to knowingly and persistently resist divine Truth, because there will come a point where you can't help but believe the lie.

[psholtz]

John wrote: Are you going to play the game of quoting out of context?
Why not?

You do it to me all day long.. :lol:

[Clara Listensprechen]

Jesus quoted stuff out of context as did Paul. Don't let 'em hold you to a higher standard than they hold Jesus...who, by the way, was in favor of deception hizzownbadself:

Quote: I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.
Matthew 10:16

John, you presume to speak for the Word of God as if God can't speak well enough on his own for himself. What's written is written and God doesn't need YOU to interpret for him.

[John]

"hizzownbadself" :lol:



Of course we should be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves. There are dark forces at hand that only want to see us destroyed.

[Clara Listensprechen]

That would contradict that "truth will set you free" line. Face it: God made a world where deception is required for survival, and he created Darwin to say as much.

[John]

Clara Listensprechen wrote: That would contradict that "truth will set you free" line. Face it: God made a world where deception is required for survival, and he created Darwin to say as much.


Being wise isn't deception. And you don't even understand what "the truth will set you free" even means.

[psholtz]

John wrote: "hizzownbadself" :lol:



Of course we should be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves. There are dark forces at hand that only want to see us destroyed.
Gee John, when I quoted that Jesus verse to you, you told me that wisdom is foolishness, and that we should avoid wisdom at all costs..

Have you had a change of heart?