Political Crossfire Forums

[Todd D.]

Quote: Abstract and Semantics again
Using words that do not fit the definition of your argument is not semantics, it's dishonest. You are calling it murder not because that is what it is, but because it provokes a negative connotation in people's minds.

Quote: Do you live in the real world?
Yes.

Quote: They can get married right now it just won't be recognized by the government.
...well goodie. Shoot I can call myself King and it won't be recognized by the government either. While I agree that ideally, there would be no government recognition of any marraige, while there is it is inapropriate to limit that recognition to the lifestyles that happen to fit a faith that they might not even believe in.

Quote: And i don't really care what "they" think
Obviously. You don't care that you are violating their rights because they offend a God that they might not aknowledge.

Quote: Can you not read, I said it was murder again!!!
And you were just as wrong that time as you were the first time.

Quote: Did I ever state it was right?
You implied that the "right" to abortion was given in the 20th Century by the government. I never said that you said it was "right", but you did say that it was "A right".

[LetsGetReal]

Because it is a right that Society gave to us. They do fit, you just like to stretch, twist, and move them to fit your own unique perspective just like the bible. The definition doesn't change just because of the legality of the issue, sorry to tell you. So if you lived in 1944 Germany you would be arguing "killing" Jews is ok, because it was approved by the government?

Have I ever stated that my feelings against Gay marriage was because it offended God? Have I ever made this a religious crusade against Gay Marriage? I also asked not to talk about the gay issue because I'm sick of it, but yet you persist because of your arrogance and self-serving attitude.

[Saf]

joe christian wrote: Judeo-Christians and Muslims are commanded by God to live under, and according to, God's Law. Since they are religiously right they also have the right to be politically right and to oppose and resist the secular legislation of the left.
There is NO law in America which prevents YOU PERSONALLY from living under God's law. What you are suggesting is forcing others to live under your interpretation of God's law, which is tantamount to playing God. Furthermore, I see you using devisive and puerile right/left language. If you feel it is your job to enforce your idea of God's law into the legal code of secular countries, why don't you support "leftist" ideas like wealth redistribution? I refer you to Matthew 19:24: "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God... With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

[Clara Listensprechen]

Saf wrote: Why does the "religious right" in America (and similar institutions in other countries) attempt to put their religious beliefs into law?

The Christians who want to do that are dominionist megalomaniacal imperial control freaks.
Quote:
This sounds like judging other human beings where it is only God's business to do so. If abortion and homosexuality are wrong, won't God punish those who sin in the afterlife?

No. Despite what you've been taught about how your just rewards are in the afterlife if you only repent and find redemption, Romans says that God sends you into a delusion that causes you to do those things.

Quote: Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the creator--who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way, the menalso abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversions. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what might not to be done.
Romans 1:24-28
Quote:
It seems that it would be wiser to put the energy that goes into Christian politics into praying for the souls of those who (arguably) sin through abortion, premarital sex, contraception, homosexuality, &tc. Why do Christian politicians think it is their right to put God's law into man's law?

Imperialistic dominionism megalomania.
Quote:
I think that this is demeaning to God's law. It suggests that man is a better arbiter of the law than God. Religion and politics should stay totally separated.

BIG OLE AMEN TO THAT!!

[mattwa33193]

joe christian wrote:
Quote: This sounds like judging other human beings where it is only God's business to do so.
God made it our business also by giving us His laws to live under.

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

Quote: If abortion and homosexuality are wrong, won't God punish those who sin in the afterlife?
joe christian wrote: Yes, but He also punishes Judeo-Christians and Muslims in this life who fail to chastize and punish those who perpetually sin and cause death in their midst. Sin is the breaking of God's Law, you know, and those who advocate homosexual and abortion rights are sinning.

See above



Quote: Why do Christian politicians think it is their right to put God's law into man's law?
joe christian wrote: Rather ask why evil men create laws making God's laws null, void and of no account?

Should be rephrased as "Rather ask why evil men create laws making my interpretation of my God's laws null, void and of no account? Claiming to know what God thinks, what God wants, or the nature of God and that all who disagree with you are wrong is arrogant. And pride is a sin as well.

Quote: I think that this is demeaning to God's law. It suggests that man is a better arbiter of the law than God.
joe christian wrote: I think you have it backwards since those who would arbitrarily invent their own secular laws demean the laws of God.

Arbitrary? Read the Bible ignoring everything but what Jesus says. Then read the Constitution. The priciples we based our Republic on are ancient and universal.

Quote: Religion and politics should stay totally separated.
joe christian wrote: Politics without religion has no moral philosophy to base its agenda on which satisifies man's need to have an infallible Supreme Being or Ultimate Authority rule over them in terms of social justice though. Secularists make poor judges of humanity.

So if we woke up tomorrow and created a government based on Taoist or Wiccan or Shinto priciples you'd be fine with that?

[joe christian]

Gryff1nd0r wrote: joe christian wrote: Judeo-Christians and Muslims can do whatever God's Law allows them to do. We can ban abortions and homosexist marriages if we want to.

For yourself.
For the community, society, state or nation which we live in.

joe christian wrote:
You obviously discount the Great Commision.
Quote: explain
The Great Commission (Matt: 28:18-20) empowers all Judeo-Christians to bring all nations into God's Kingdom and under God's Law.

Quote: The Old Testament covanent doesn't apply, for the coming of Christ created a new covanent and the old became obsolete. Jesus does not preach the death penalty. No, he says to love your enemy and not be proud.
That is only an antinomian interpretation of what Christ's Advent means. Judeo-Christians believe that God's Laws based on the Ten Commandments are still in force since without them, there can be no sin.

Quote: being a CHRISTian, one would think you would attempt to follow CHRIST.
I do. Christians are not at liberty to violate the Ten Commandments though, are they? Since when does believing in the Son negate the Will and Commands of the Father?

[connermt]

joe christian wrote: Gryff1nd0r wrote: joe christian wrote: Judeo-Christians and Muslims can do whatever God's Law allows them to do. We can ban abortions and homosexist marriages if we want to.

For yourself.
For the community, society, state or nation which we live in.

joe christian wrote:
You obviously discount the Great Commision.
Quote: explain
The Great Commission (Matt: 28:18-20) empowers all Judeo-Christians to bring all nations into God's Kingdom and under God's Law.

Quote: The Old Testament covanent doesn't apply, for the coming of Christ created a new covanent and the old became obsolete. Jesus does not preach the death penalty. No, he says to love your enemy and not be proud.
That is only an antinomian interpretation of what Christ's Advent means. Judeo-Christians believe that God's Laws based on the Ten Commandments are still in force since without them, there can be no sin.

Quote: being a CHRISTian, one would think you would attempt to follow CHRIST.
I do. Christians are not at liberty to violate the Ten Commandments though, are they? Since when does believing in the Son negate the Will and Commands of the Father?

Quote: For the community, society, state or nation which we live in. Good idea! Oh wait, you MUST have forgot about all the gays & women that share YOUR society, YOUR state & YOUR nation in which you live. Women & gays who have on some level contributed to YOUR lifestyle & community in a positive way. But I guess those people don't count. Jesus would probably agree.

Quote: Christians are not at liberty to violate the Ten Commandments though, are they? So free will has been abolished as well? Did I miss the memo ?!?! Maybe you missed the memo that Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven....

[Plodder]

while we still have free will that does not mean that we can abuse it to do as we wish. we must take into accoun t what God wishes .

[connermt]

Plodder wrote: while we still have free will that does not mean that we can abuse it to do as we wish. we must take into accoun t what God wishes .

People can abuse it if they so wish, they will just have to answer for what they do eventually