Political Crossfire Forums

[Tracker]

Clarification: Marriage is a beautiful thing, when it works. When it doesn't it's a misery-trap of seemingly infinite-gravity, harming friends, neighbors, co-workers, aquaintances, and the public at large.

Current statistics are horrid. The blame/shame game of FigurativeCarpentry makes it worse and worse and worse, bankrupting everybody, financially and morally.

Some reformation needs be enacted, because the current 'plans' by 'genius-experts' merely PROscribe needless medications, and then, in their gang-banger mindset/mentality of retaliatory self-protection, ignore all other voices, merely to profit from the continued misery and grief.

The MiracleOfUnity is Pope Benedict XVI's CALLING.

[Tracker]

Did Van de Wall and Hinckley unite and liberate today, or divide TRIBES in HatefulReligiousSupremacy?

[connermt]

wookeyeh wrote: So why not allow gays to marry legally, and leave the exclusionist policies up to the individual churches?

That is the intelligent, responsible approach, which is why the church doesn't want to allow it.
:wink:
Let's us all remember how the church thought the sun revolved around the earth at one point as well. :roll:
In truth, the church would feel like it has lost its 'power hold' on society. {Some} Individuals would then see that the 'world is coming to an end when my [their] coutry allows something that God says is bad/evil/sinful'. It is nothing more than totally ignonoting of science & common sense & allowing people's words from 2000+ years ago to rule our lives today.

[connermt]

Demosthenes_ wrote: As a christian i would have to disagree but not on all accounts. I agree that this post is interesting. Everyone knows about the issues dealing with homosexuality. I don't hate homosexuals, they are as much a person as the next in line, but i can't say that i believe in their cause. I have often had difficulities presenting my reasons.

I think that homosexuality is wrong not because another christian told me,but becuase of my own opinions. First, i cant accept the fact that it is natural. Think about it. The male and female sex organs were designed to be compatable with the opposite sex. It makes sense. Male with male isn't natural because they can't reproduce. I think this is a problem because to the best of my knowledge, nature hasn't made any mistakes to date and nature has worked better than any of mans ideas, so who are we to challenge it.
And as a sidenote, God created nature and he didn't intend for us to challenge it.

This is human nature after all. My reason for the recent rise in homosexuality is the family structure in America and around the world. I'm not saying that homosexuality is a curse but lets believe for a second that heterosexuality is the right way to go. If a child growing up has both parents active in that childs life, it will get an equal exposure to feminism and masculinity. If one of the parents is not present though, there is an upset in the balance. In today's society, divorce is common and the number of single parents is on the rise. How can one parent take the place of two. This means that the child won't be exposed to what both parents should give their children.

I understand that this doesnt apply to all homosexuals but i believe it to be a common trend. I have no proof except for the homosexual people that I know at school.

Christians may choose to accept homosexuality because of the social pressures or because they think it right. I know of the pressure to accept homosexuality and I am sure every one else does also.

Quote: Male with male isn't natural because they can't reproduce.
Of course you know that 1) being natural & reproducing have NOTHING to do with each other, 2) even so, gays can still reproduce if the want to, naturally or unnaturally, 3) by that logic people/animals that can't reproduce aren't 'natural'
Quote: ...God created nature and he didn't intend for us to challenge it. Then we are ALL in a world of hurt. We should be running around in animal skins clubbing our next meal. No cars, no TV, no stoves,... the list goes on.
Quote: If one of the parents is not present though, there is an upset in the balance. In today's society, divorce is common and the number of single parents is on the rise. How can one parent take the place of two. This means that the child won't be exposed to what both parents should give their children. Of course I think most people will agree that 2 parents are better than one, however, that doesn't mean anything other than that. There are many gay kids from homes that have a dad & mom, from a home with one dad or one mom, from homes with 2 dads or 2 moms. Likewise, there are many straight kids from the same situations. Granted that the famile situation does have some kind of relavance on the kid's life as a whole (which includes, but not limited to, its sexuality), but there are many other factors that play into it as well.

[connermt]

Mormonsstone wrote: Quote: Christianity doesn’t "own" marriage.

Tell me then, where do you think it originated? Just out of thin air? This country used to be all-christian, that's when marriage and marriage packages came about.

And Coolchick, that's my point exactly. We should give gays the benefits of marriage, but the actual act of marriage within our church is what shouldn't be allowed, simply because our organization disagrees with it. Nobody would force a muslim in this country to not wear their attire, or force them to do anything for that matter. So why should christians be subjected to having to marry someone in their church with whom they don't necessarily feel are fit for Holy MAtrimony?

Quote: Tell me then, where do you think it originated? Just out of thin air? This country used to be all-christian, that's when marriage and marriage packages came about. Our form of marriage probably did have its origins in Christianity, but there are many MANY groups of people who get 'married' that aren't chrsitians. There are tribes in Africa & such places that get married w/o any reference to our God. Does that mean their marriage isn't valid?

[connermt]

Etienne wrote: Marriage should be restricted to the church. However, marriages should not be recognized by the State, and therefore are not awarded any benefits such as property rights. Only civil unions between 2 consenting adults would be recognized, and thereby granted benefits.

Win-Win for everyone. Gays get equal rights, and Christians are able to protect the sanctity of marriage.

That's a good idea, but will never happen. The gov't has its hooks in marriage so deeply that they will never overturn it - they can't.
Even IF they could, it would be such an undertaking that no politician would even want to start to work on it (see LAZY)

[Tracker]

Good posts, user named 'connermt.'

connermt wrote: Let's us all remember how the church thought the sun revolved around the earth at one point as well.
In truth, the church would feel like it has lost its 'power hold' on society. {Some} Individuals would then see that the 'world is coming to an end when my [their] coutry allows something that God says is bad/evil/sinful'. It is nothing more than totally ignonoting of science & common sense & allowing people's words from 2000+ years ago to rule our lives today.

Most of those words from 2000+ years ago were DELETED/REVISED/EDITED and then CAST-OUT and REPLACED by HatefulReligiousSupremacists DECEIVING, defrauding, dividing -- instead of UNITING TRIBES IN PEACE.

The WHOLE purpose was show how horrid societies were under NegativePositive-isms, which ALWAYS is a PROMISE for HOLOCAUST. It's 2-dimensional thinking -- a trained ThoughtVirus -- putting blinders over eyes and brains that see and process in a 3-dimensional universe.

AllThings is EXACTLY THAT -- not divisions of 'your kind of people' to holocaust 'not your kind of people.' That's why I've ALWAYS SAID: "Heaven does not discriminate -- YOU DO!"

('you' is figurative, user named 'connermt,' and not directed personally at you).

[toddytodd]

Mormonsstone wrote: In this modern society where Homosexuality is largely accepted in society, many people feel that it is their god-given right to exist And I must say I agree: Everyone put on this earth has a reason, everyone put on this earth has a God-given right to exist.

The Christian religion (along with almost every other religion as well), is one of the few institutions left in the country willing to speak out against homosexuality, despite the constant bombardment by a largely Liberal American society. This arises the question by many atheists and gays: why? The religion of love seems to hate these people although they are humans just like us!

Before I continue, I must adress that the fact that Christians HATE Homosexuality is an absloute farce. By no means are homosexuals shunned in the Christian church. While homosexuality is considered a sin, so is every other human activity on the planet these days. Homosexuals are forgiven in our religion, just like any other sin.

But, while modern homosexuals are accepted (and accepted as we aren't trying to kill them or exclude them from the church), the Christian church does not wish to see Homosexuality expand as to influence the younger generations. As an example...when a gay couple grows up and adopts a child, that child will not only be exposed to ridicule from having "Two Daddies" or "Two Mommies", but that child, especially if they are born straight (because I believe gays are born that way) will have to witness their homosexual parents and may be traumatizing to a child whom is straight oriented. Allowing Gay Marriage in the Church's eyes will lead to a proliferation of homosexual culture. In the church's eyes, this will lead to a decay of western society. It is written in the Bible that the cities of Soddom and Gimmorah were destroyed for reasons like perveted sex (which the bible deems homosexual sex as) and other so-called "perverted" issues. Whether or not you choose to believe or follow the Church's stance is your own choice, but this is the church's reason for the way it thinks, and people who follow it tend to think similarly. So next time you think about calling christians biggots for this belief, you have to realize that it's their religion that makes them think this. Why do you say it's ok that muslims blow themselves up because "their religion says too and its not their fault?" Why does it apply to them and not us? While there are many areas of religious dogma that are utterly rediculous and sound proposeterous, you can never eliminate religion from people's lives, so we need to learn to compromise, and Social Contracts granted by the government that grant the equilavent of marriage rights seems to be the only logical solution. Religion has no problem allowing gays to do as they wish, as long as a religious term is not used. We are a forgiving religion, but we also have our own rules, and the government, along with the people of the country, need to respect our rules, just as you'd respect any other opinion.

Quote: the Christian church does not wish to see Homosexuality expand as to influence the younger generations. Allowing Gay Marriage in the Church's eyes will lead to a proliferation of homosexual culture.
There isn't much of a choice there, as there has always been & will continue to be gay people.
Quote: when a gay couple grows up and adopts a child, that child will not only be exposed to ridicule from having "Two Daddies" or "Two Mommies", but that child, especially if they are born straight (because I believe gays are born that way) will have to witness their homosexual parents and may be traumatizing to a child whom is straight oriented The gay parent I know with children that is not the case. Quite the contrary actually. Children ridicule other children for any reason possible. Having 2 dads or 2 mom is a target for children to ridicule, but so is a white dad & black mom, a fat mom, a skinny dad, being too tall, being too short, etc list is endless. Fact of the matter is kids with gay parents are often more adjusted socially (meaning less likely to condemn & judge) once they mature.
Quote: Religion has no problem allowing gays to do as they wish, as long as a religious term is not used I am not so sure about this, as referenced by, among other things, what was stated earlier: "the Christian church does not wish to see Homosexuality expand as to influence the younger generations."
There are many Christians that only look at the act as sin (which is open for debate) & see the people as friends, co-workers, family, etc. Those christian should be commended for showing the love that they are required to show. There are others, however, that have gotten so caught up in their quest that they forget everything else - it becomes an utter stamping out of all things gay.