Political Crossfire Forums

[forthegreatergood]

Why is this fair?

Here is something to debate. Paris Hilton, the Hilton heiress who was born with millions, who is able to live a lavish lifestyle, who is on numerous magazine covers who humans buy to read, who is famous, who some envy, who wears a fur coat that creatures die for her to wear, who has a dog she pampers called Tinkerbell, who is on a show called the Simple Life that basically makes fun of those who are not rich who do labor to survive, a show which people watch.

Compare that to those who are not born into wealth and comfort, those who struggle to find food to eat, and experience suffering?

Why is this fair? If you believe in reincarnation, or even if you do not, why do you think this occurs? What is the solution?





Paris Hilton with coat made by killing creatures Paris Hilton with creature she nurtures

Paris Hilton mocking those who have to earn money

[ieatfood]

Look at it this way.
Paris hilton is the result of capitalism
Capitalism is a system by which prevents massive starvation like you see in Africa.

Thus, you should not see it as an injustice that Paris Hilton exists. You should see it as an injustice that poor nations don't try and adopt the capitalist system in which paris hilton exists.


btw, life isn't fair

get over it

compared to a starving guy in africa, YOU are living the life of Paris hilton
so your lavish lifestyle is an injustice too
ok?

[forthegreatergood]

[quote="ieatfood"] Quote: Look at it this way.
Paris hilton is the result of capitalism
Capitalism is a system by which prevents massive starvation like you see in Africa.
Or has capitalism(notice the pun? I didn't capitalize capitalism!) caused starvation by consuming vast resources that could be dispersed differently and equally for the planet's countries instead of specific countries, and individuals in these countries, hording wealth and goods while others suffer? If you believe in karma and reincarnation and are reading this, why does this happen? What can be done to better existence?

Quote: Thus, you should not see it as an injustice that Paris Hilton exists.

So you are proud of her? She must be very smart huh? You are proud of her mocking of those who work and suffer to barely survive to make those who are rich like her happy and comfortable and can be free to do things like make a show called THE SIMPLE LIFE to make fun of those who work for minumum wage as inferior? Is that why you possibly stay at Hilton Hotels to support her? Is that what capitalism is about? Why was she born into a rich family and another being not born into a rich family? Is it because of inhumane things like wearing a fur coat and then mocking it by acting humane having a dog called Tinkerbell? Is that not hypocrisy? So she is rewarded by it by being rich and famous? What about hypocrites who are not rich and famous and suffer more? What about those who are not hypocrites who are not rich and suffer?


Quote: You should see it as an injustice that poor nations don't try and adopt the capitalist system in which paris hilton exists.

Is she a role model for what a capitalist society citizen should be like? Maybe that is why other countries do not like capitalism.

Quote: btw, life isn't fair

Why is life not fair? What can we do to make life fair? Wouldn't it be better if life were fair?

Quote: get over it

Are you Paris Hilton? Are you trying to defend yourself? Should I "get over" unfairness? Should I accept unfairness? That would be unfair.


Quote: compared to a starving guy in africa, YOU are living the life of Paris hilton
so your lavish lifestyle is an injustice too
ok?


You do not know if I am wealthy or not wealthy; You do not know if I am living a lavish lifestyle or not living a lavish lifestyle.

[ieatfood]

forthegreatergood wrote:
Or has capitalism(notice the pun? I didn't capitalize capitalism!) caused starvation by consuming vast resources that could be dispersed differently and equally for the planet's countries instead of specific countries, and individuals in these countries, hording wealth and goods while others suffer? If you believe in karma and reincarnation and are reading this, why does this happen? What can be done to better existence?

btw, great pun

but that theory is plain wrong

all the "resources" that capitalism creates are produced by capitalism. Capitalism takes raw resources, and produces things from them. The raw resources are not valuable in themselves.

It's not like if you gave zimbabwe some extra crude oil or some extra copper, that it would solve the starvation problem.

no i don't believe in karma. It's a bunch of bullsh*t created by people who can't deal with life and so they need to create an artificial sense of hope for themselves. In reality, there is no justice in this world, except the one that humans create for themselves.

forthegreatergood wrote:
So you are proud of her? She must be very smart huh? You are proud of her mocking of those who work and suffer to barely survive to make those who are rich like her happy and comfortable and can be free to do things like make a show called THE SIMPLE LIFE to make fun of those who work for minumum wage as inferior? Is that why you possibly stay at Hilton Hotels to support her? Is that what capitalism is about? Why was she born into a rich family and another being not born into a rich family? Is it because of inhumane things like wearing a fur coat and then mocking it by acting humane having a dog called Tinkerbell? Is that not hypocrisy? So she is rewarded by it by being rich and famous? What about hypocrites who are not rich and famous and suffer more? What about those who are not hypocrites who are not rich and suffer?

i'm not proud of her. But she has free speech. She can make fun of whatever she wants. I really dont care.

forthegreatergood wrote:

Is she a role model for what a capitalist society citizen should be like? Maybe that is why other countries do not like capitalism.
she's not a role model for capitalism
capitalism does not need a role model because it is clearly better than other systems




forthegreatergood wrote:
Why is life not fair? What can we do to make life fair? Wouldn't it be better if life were fair?

If life were fair, it would be better. But we cannot make some parts fair without making other parts more unfair.

For example, you could force the hilton family to donate their life savings to charity. But then, they would have never built their hotels in the first place. As a result, all the workers in the hotels would lose their jobs. Is that fair?


forthegreatergood wrote:

You do not know if I am wealthy or not wealthy; You do not know if I am living a lavish lifestyle or not living a lavish lifestyle.

i know that compared to some starving guy in africa, you are living a very lavish lifestyle.

you have a computer!!!
do you know what kind of luxury that is to some starving kid in africa?
you are being a hypocrite in that compared to a starving guy, you are living the lifestyle of paris hilton.

[George W Bush]

her experience in life is limited, dont you think?

she's poor in reality. were the ones with the truth. shes all 2 dimensional magazine cut-off and sex fodder.

she will sell out, become miserable at a very old age, then realize how little she actually knows about humanity.

a good contrast is with Angelina Jolie who saw this and went to third world country's to be awakened.

paris isnt awakened. she is sleeping. time wakes her up, but she'll be too old to take in life.

but you have to, at least, see she is a beautiful girl. and she gives alot to the entertainment industry with her looks.

[ieatfood]

George W Bush wrote: her experience in life is limited, dont you think?

she's poor in reality. were the ones with the truth. shes all 2 dimensional magazine cut-off and sex fodder.

she will sell out, become miserable at a very old age, then realize how little she actually knows about humanity.

a good contrast is with Angelina Jolie who saw this and went to third world country's to be awakened.

paris isnt awakened. she is sleeping. time wakes her up, but she'll be too old to take in life.

but you have to, at least, see she is a beautiful girl. and she gives alot to the entertainment industry with her looks.

with her status and money, i dont think that knowledge is too high on her agenda

she's got enough to keep her busy

[Fido]

For anyone to inherite wealth without merit is unfair and unjust, and it is in every sense against the interest in society. There is not an argument against heriditary kingship like heriditary wealth, though the result is the same: of making the wealthy and powerful disdainful of the laboring class.

[jawsome]

[quote="forthegreatergood"] ieatfood wrote: Quote: Look at it this way.
Paris hilton is the result of capitalism
Capitalism is a system by which prevents massive starvation like you see in Africa.
Or has capitalism(notice the pun? I didn't capitalize capitalism!) caused starvation by consuming vast resources that could be dispersed differently and equally for the planet's countries instead of specific countries, and individuals in these countries, hording wealth and goods while others suffer? If you believe in karma and reincarnation and are reading this, why does this happen? What can be done to better existence?

Most famines in Africa are not man-made; they are normally results of natural causes, mainly draughts. But I'd like to add that one of the worst famines to ever hit Africa was in Ethiopia when a communist government took over and "nationalized" the land. It went to ruins because no one owned anything and did not care if they land they occupied was ruined.

Also, on the topic of starvation and lack of resources: if every person in the west donated $100 a year to the right organizations, I doubt there would be any starvation.

Quote: Quote: Thus, you should not see it as an injustice that Paris Hilton exists.

So you are proud of her? She must be very smart huh? You are proud of her mocking of those who work and suffer to barely survive to make those who are rich like her happy and comfortable and can be free to do things like make a show called THE SIMPLE LIFE to make fun of those who work for minumum wage as inferior? Is that why you possibly stay at Hilton Hotels to support her? Is that what capitalism is about? Why was she born into a rich family and another being not born into a rich family? Is it because of inhumane things like wearing a fur coat and then mocking it by acting humane having a dog called Tinkerbell? Is that not hypocrisy? So she is rewarded by it by being rich and famous? What about hypocrites who are not rich and famous and suffer more? What about those who are not hypocrites who are not rich and suffer?

Settle, no need to get to angry. You're forgetting one thing: her father was a very successful business man and made all the money. He should be able to spend it however he sees fit. I, personally, think he has raised his daughter in the worst possible way, but he has every right to do so.

Should parents not try to make their children happy and buy them luxuries (everything but what is truly necessary)? I don't think that should be so, but perhaps that would be the logical extreme of what you would prefer.


Quote: Quote: You should see it as an injustice that poor nations don't try and adopt the capitalist system in which paris hilton exists.

Is she a role model for what a capitalist society citizen should be like? Maybe that is why other countries do not like capitalism.

No, she is not. What country is not capitalist?

Quote: Quote: btw, life isn't fair

Why is life not fair? What can we do to make life fair? Wouldn't it be better if life were fair?

Fair is hard to define and a very complex state.


Quote: Quote: compared to a starving guy in africa, YOU are living the life of Paris hilton
so your lavish lifestyle is an injustice too
ok?


You do not know if I am wealthy or not wealthy; You do not know if I am living a lavish lifestyle or not living a lavish lifestyle.

If you have a computer, I guarantee you're living an exceedingly lavish lifestyle compared to the vast majority of the world. I do not know if you do, though.

[Ssushi]

ieatfood wrote: Look at it this way.
Paris hilton is the result of capitalism
Capitalism is a system by which prevents massive starvation like you see in Africa.

Thus, you should not see it as an injustice that Paris Hilton exists. You should see it as an injustice that poor nations don't try and adopt the capitalist system in which paris hilton exists.


btw, life isn't fair

get over it

compared to a starving guy in africa, YOU are living the life of Paris hilton
so your lavish lifestyle is an injustice too
ok?

Typically capitalist systems exploit 3rd world countries via cheap labour and the like. Who would the poor nations exploit in order to adopt the capitalist system?

[Robin Hood]

If I make a chain of hotels, then they'll only make me money if other people consensually pay for them. I am taking from no-one, and making a lot that many people obviously find useful. That money is therefore mine and if I choose to give it to my good-for-nothing daughter, then it's my choice.

Furthermore if you aren't going to let me use my money in the way that I deem most fit then it's worth less to me and I may not make the chain of hotels, or make them so well, and other people will be worse off for it - including by a long chain of mutually consensual transactions starving children in Africa.

[ieatfood]

Ssushi wrote:

Typically capitalist systems exploit 3rd world countries via cheap labour and the like. Who would the poor nations exploit in order to adopt the capitalist system?

uh
thats not exploitation
thats called mutual benefit
the third world countries are made better off too

exploitation is when one party gains while the other party loses
this is clearly not the case

[RueTheDay]

Reason wrote: If I make a chain of hotels, then they'll only make me money if other people consensually pay for them. I am taking from no-one, and making a lot that many people obviously find useful. That money is therefore mine and if I choose to give it to my good-for-nothing daughter, then it's my choice.

Furthermore if you aren't going to let me use my money in the way that I deem most fit then it's worth less to me and I may not make the chain of hotels, or make them so well, and other people will be worse off for it - including by a long chain of mutually consensual transactions starving children in Africa.

As usual, you are ignorant of the subject about which you post. Conrad Hilton was the founder of the Hilton hotel chain, and Paris Hilton's great grandfather. Whe he died, he left a will stating that each of his siblings was to receive $250k and each of his nieces and nephews were to receive $10k, the remainder of his $350 million fortune was to go towards establishing a philanthropic organization that was to establish prizes for humanitarian work. Nine years after his death, his second son (William Barron Hilton, Paris grandfather) contested the will in court, had a judgement awarded in his favor, and walked away with $335 million, DIRECTLY AGAINST the written wishes of his father. So clearly and obviuously, your claim that Paris' money is the result of consentual transaction is demonstrated to be FALSE.

[ieatfood]

RueTheDay wrote:

As usual, you are ignorant of the subject about which you post. Conrad Hilton was the founder of the Hilton hotel chain, and Paris Hilton's great grandfather. Whe he died, he left a will stating that each of his siblings was to receive $250k and each of his nieces and nephews were to receive $10k, the remainder of his $350 million fortune was to go towards establishing a philanthropic organization that was to establish prizes for humanitarian work. Nine years after his death, his second son (William Barron Hilton, Paris grandfather) contested the will in court, had a judgement awarded in his favor, and walked away with $335 million, DIRECTLY AGAINST the written wishes of his father. So clearly and obviuously, your claim that Paris' money is the result of consentual transaction is demonstrated to be FALSE.

he should have written a better will

but this stuff is messed up

i've heard that things like prenups also don't hold up in court
its outrageous

damn lawyers

[thebreadloaf2003]

this might have gone better in society...oh wellz

well the thing is is that when Paris's father dies, she will be completely reliant on the money that she doesnt know how to handle or what to do with, so she will become completely relianton on the people with "normal" jobs....which is somewhat ironic because of what you said earlier

thus she is just a mindless donred dimwhitt who is lives life on brand names and material possesion and will never know the true enjoyment of being able to comprehend a good book or participate in a good debate....so sad, what a wasted person

[Zoot]

Quote: Look at it this way.
Paris hilton is the result of capitalism
Capitalism is a system by which prevents massive starvation like you see in Africa.

Thus, you should not see it as an injustice that Paris Hilton exists. You should see it as an injustice that poor nations don't try and adopt the capitalist system in which paris hilton exists.

You are out of your mind.

[ieatfood]

thebreadloaf2003 wrote: this might have gone better in society...oh wellz

well the thing is is that when Paris's father dies, she will be completely reliant on the money that she doesnt know how to handle or what to do with, so she will become completely relianton on the people with "normal" jobs....which is somewhat ironic because of what you said earlier

thus she is just a mindless donred dimwhitt who is lives life on brand names and material possesion and will never know the true enjoyment of being able to comprehend a good book or participate in a good debate....so sad, what a wasted person

well i think she has enough money that she really doesnt need to worry about "what to do with it"

as for her not knowing how to participate in good debate, that may be true
but i doubt that any of us know what it is like to be pampered 24/7 and treated like a goddess all the time. Everyone has a unique life experience. And as far as life experiences go, Paris Hilton has had a pretty good one, i'd say.

[ieatfood]

Zoot wrote: Quote: Look at it this way.
Paris hilton is the result of capitalism
Capitalism is a system by which prevents massive starvation like you see in Africa.

Thus, you should not see it as an injustice that Paris Hilton exists. You should see it as an injustice that poor nations don't try and adopt the capitalist system in which paris hilton exists.

You are out of your mind.

I think you are. Countries all around the world have been able to use the capitalist system to bring their people out of poverty. For example, in south korea, there are rich people who are just like Paris Hilton. They are the product of the capitalist system that has brought wealth and prosperity to the masses.

[Robin Hood]

RueTheDay wrote: Reason wrote: If I make a chain of hotels, then they'll only make me money if other people consensually pay for them. I am taking from no-one, and making a lot that many people obviously find useful. That money is therefore mine and if I choose to give it to my good-for-nothing daughter, then it's my choice.

Furthermore if you aren't going to let me use my money in the way that I deem most fit then it's worth less to me and I may not make the chain of hotels, or make them so well, and other people will be worse off for it - including by a long chain of mutually consensual transactions starving children in Africa.

As usual, you are ignorant of the subject about which you post. Conrad Hilton was the founder of the Hilton hotel chain, and Paris Hilton's great grandfather. Whe he died, he left a will stating that each of his siblings was to receive $250k and each of his nieces and nephews were to receive $10k, the remainder of his $350 million fortune was to go towards establishing a philanthropic organization that was to establish prizes for humanitarian work. Nine years after his death, his second son (William Barron Hilton, Paris grandfather) contested the will in court, had a judgement awarded in his favor, and walked away with $335 million, DIRECTLY AGAINST the written wishes of his father. So clearly and obviuously, your claim that Paris' money is the result of consentual transaction is demonstrated to be FALSE.

I was simplifying and never actually mentioned the Hiltons. What Mr 'challenge my own father's will' Hilton did was wrong, at least from the facts you gave me.

[RueTheDay]

Reason wrote: RueTheDay wrote: Reason wrote: If I make a chain of hotels, then they'll only make me money if other people consensually pay for them. I am taking from no-one, and making a lot that many people obviously find useful. That money is therefore mine and if I choose to give it to my good-for-nothing daughter, then it's my choice.

Furthermore if you aren't going to let me use my money in the way that I deem most fit then it's worth less to me and I may not make the chain of hotels, or make them so well, and other people will be worse off for it - including by a long chain of mutually consensual transactions starving children in Africa.

As usual, you are ignorant of the subject about which you post. Conrad Hilton was the founder of the Hilton hotel chain, and Paris Hilton's great grandfather. Whe he died, he left a will stating that each of his siblings was to receive $250k and each of his nieces and nephews were to receive $10k, the remainder of his $350 million fortune was to go towards establishing a philanthropic organization that was to establish prizes for humanitarian work. Nine years after his death, his second son (William Barron Hilton, Paris grandfather) contested the will in court, had a judgement awarded in his favor, and walked away with $335 million, DIRECTLY AGAINST the written wishes of his father. So clearly and obviuously, your claim that Paris' money is the result of consentual transaction is demonstrated to be FALSE.

I was simplifying and never actually mentioned the Hiltons. What Mr 'challenge my own father's will' Hilton did was wrong, at least from the facts you gave me.

So given that information, do you now acknowledge that Paris Hilton's fortune was wrongfully acquired and cannot be morally justified?

[Robin Hood]

RueTheDay wrote: Reason wrote: RueTheDay wrote: Reason wrote: If I make a chain of hotels, then they'll only make me money if other people consensually pay for them. I am taking from no-one, and making a lot that many people obviously find useful. That money is therefore mine and if I choose to give it to my good-for-nothing daughter, then it's my choice.

Furthermore if you aren't going to let me use my money in the way that I deem most fit then it's worth less to me and I may not make the chain of hotels, or make them so well, and other people will be worse off for it - including by a long chain of mutually consensual transactions starving children in Africa.

As usual, you are ignorant of the subject about which you post. Conrad Hilton was the founder of the Hilton hotel chain, and Paris Hilton's great grandfather. Whe he died, he left a will stating that each of his siblings was to receive $250k and each of his nieces and nephews were to receive $10k, the remainder of his $350 million fortune was to go towards establishing a philanthropic organization that was to establish prizes for humanitarian work. Nine years after his death, his second son (William Barron Hilton, Paris grandfather) contested the will in court, had a judgement awarded in his favor, and walked away with $335 million, DIRECTLY AGAINST the written wishes of his father. So clearly and obviuously, your claim that Paris' money is the result of consentual transaction is demonstrated to be FALSE.

I was simplifying and never actually mentioned the Hiltons. What Mr 'challenge my own father's will' Hilton did was wrong, at least from the facts you gave me.

So given that information, do you now acknowledge that Paris Hilton's fortune was wrongfully acquired and cannot be morally justified?

Assuming that information is correct, then I agree. Her Grandfather's will should have been fulfilled.