Political Crossfire Forums

Pike · Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 8

South Dakota's abortion ban won't end or even cut down on abortions among the women in that state, and it probably will have disastrous effects on their health and lives. Laws and policies on abortion and contraceptives should not punish women and girls for doing what they feel they must to live with dignity.

What do you all think? Before you respond checkout this interesting example from Latin America where this same law was implemented:

http://www.breakthesilence.ca/politics/April%2006/abortion.htm

Plodder · Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 803 Location: USA

In that article, there is one thing that the wirter did no mention. It is that a fetus/embyo ect. is infact a human life. In south amneica where im from we care a lot about life especially in the western countries. The eastern countries less so, but much more than you Canadian or american. Sex education is just a promotion for pre marital sex. For the stae to abolish it is a dignity given to all people. Contraceptives: these end or prevent an embryo from forming, but also usually let the embryo form but do not allow it to be implanted in the uterus. This is to all prolifers the same thing as an abortion. South American countries are free to do as they wish especially when the majority of their population supports them. finnaly, Quote: Laws and policies on abortion and contraceptives should not punish women and girls for doing what they feel they must to live with dignity. this little passge is confused on itself. how is it a dignity to kill your own child? its not. Its an injustice to allow murder to occur every day just because a human life is very young. we are reverting back to slavery except that you are property not because of the color of your skin, but because of your age and your cell number.

joe christian · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 282

Pike wrote: South Dakota's abortion ban won't end or even cut down on abortions among the women in that state, and it probably will have disastrous effects on their health and lives.
Excuse me? How will women get abortions in SD if doctors can be imprisoned for performing them? As for their health and lives, they will lead happier, healthier and longer lives if they marry and have many children. You are not against Judeo-Christian marriage and long, happy and healthy sexual lives, are you?

Quote: Laws and policies on abortion and contraceptives should not punish women and girls for doing what they feel they must to live with dignity.
The only way to live with dignity is to lead a dignified life. Having an abortionist butcher your baby in a cheap chop shop doesn't seem very dignified to me.

Quote: What do you all think? Before you respond checkout this interesting example from Latin America where this same law was implemented:

http://www.breakthesilence.ca/politics/April%2006/abortion.htm

Latin America is primarily Roman Catholic and fortunately doesn't seem to have any more use for the secular values of feminism, atheism, abortion and homosexuality in their societies than Muslim societies do.

Saf · Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 377

Please prove that an unthinking, unfeeling sack of flesh is somehow a "human life" without resorting to the whole soul bit. As I like to say: an abortion is about as tragic as a scraped knee.

SavannahMan · Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 1307

Saf wrote: Please prove that an unthinking, unfeeling sack of flesh is somehow a "human life" without resorting to the whole soul bit.

Hey! let's leave Ted Kennedy out of this and stay on topic please.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

Plodder wrote: In that article, there is one thing that the wirter did no mention. It is that a fetus/embyo ect. is infact a human life. Non-sentient, non-sensate tissue of human origin.

Quote: [ In south amneica where im from we care a lot about life especially in the western countries. hence mega slums, death squads and killing off strete kids. Yip, uhum.

Quote: Sex education is just a promotion for pre marital sex. Please prove your false claim.

Quote: Contraceptives: these end or prevent an embryo from forming, but also usually let the embryo form but do not allow it to be implanted in the uterus. This is to all prolifers the same thing as an abortion. The use of condoms is the same as abortions? That sounds a bit nuts. COuld you clarify?

Quote: Quote: Laws and policies on abortion and contraceptives should not punish women and girls for doing what they feel they must to live with dignity. this little passge is confused on itself. how is it a dignity to kill your own child? Nobody is talking about killing children. We leave that to the South American police forces.

Quote: its not. Its an injustice to allow murder to occur every day just because a human life is very young. If you knbow of a murder being committed, please get off the computer and call the police.

Quote: we are reverting back to slavery except that you are property not because of the color of your skin, but because of your age and your cell number. Well, at least you acknowledge your plan to enslave, oppress and control women. That's a start.

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

Pike wrote: Laws and policies on abortion and contraceptives should not punish women and girls for doing what they feel they must to live with dignity.

Any girl with real dignity would not go sleeping around and getting herself pregnant from premarital sex in the first place.

Plodder · Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 803 Location: USA

Quote: Please prove that an unthinking, unfeeling sack of flesh is somehow a "human life" without resorting to the whole soul bit. As I like to say: an abortion is about as tragic as a scraped knee.

embyo has human chromosomes. It grows by feeding itself through the mother. It will reast when touched or moved. especially in later stages of early development.

we are also mostly water, so I guess we are all sack of flesh, but unfeeling, thats you.

Quote: Sex education is just a promotion for pre marital sex.

Please prove your false claim.
All it does is show you pronos and how to use a condom or where to get contraceptives. It should either not exist or simply teach abstinece.

Quote: Quote:
Contraceptives: these end or prevent an embryo from forming, but also usually let the embryo form but do not allow it to be implanted in the uterus. This is to all prolifers the same thing as an abortion.

The use of condoms is the same as abortions? That sounds a bit nuts. COuld you clarify?
I said contraceptive, like the pill; condoms are wrong because they undermine the reason for sex, the biological one.

Quote: Nobody is talking about killing children. We leave that to the South American police forces.
I am talking abotu killing children and so are those south americans. When in the womb, that hunk of unfeekling tissue is a physically developing child.

Quote: If you knbow of a murder being committed, please get off the computer and call the police. too late murder is legal by Roe v wade in the case of the very youung. in Nehtelands murder for the sick and the old is legal. How long will it be till we are legal to be killed?

Quote: Well, at least you acknowledge your plan to enslave, oppress and control women. That's a start. How is not allowing a murder to occur slavery? Hey next time some serial killer comes knocking on your door, dont call the police so that he can not be enslaved for wanting to kill you.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

Plodder wrote: Quote: Please prove that an unthinking, unfeeling sack of flesh is somehow a "human life" without resorting to the whole soul bit. As I like to say: an abortion is about as tragic as a scraped knee.
embyo has human chromosomes. So does your appendix. So does a hydatidiform mole

Quote: It grows by feeding itself through the mother. So does your appendix. So does a hydatidiform mole

Quote: It will reast when touched or moved. especially in later stages of early development. Reflexes. I can get them out of your knee even if your head is chopped off. So what?

Quote: Quote: The use of condoms is the same as abortions? That sounds a bit nuts. COuld you clarify?
I said contraceptive, like the pill; Condoms are ALSO contraceptives.

Quote: condoms are wrong because they undermine the reason for sex, the biological one. Ah, so YOU decide why other people should have sex. Yes, pro-lifers sure are fascist.

Quote: Quote: Nobody is talking about killing children. We leave that to the South American police forces. I am talking abotu killing children and so are those south americans. When in the womb, that hunk of unfeekling tissue is a physically developing child. Your lying, claptrap revisionist linguistic hyperbole aside, "child" is a developmental stage beginning after birth.

Quote: Quote: If you knbow of a murder being committed, please get off the computer and call the police. too late murder is legal by Roe v wade in the case of the very youung. Ah, more lies. "Murder" is the ILLEGAL killing of a person. There is no such thing as a legal "murder." So we are back to you spewing deceptive propaganda with no regard for facts or the truth. No surprice there, as that generally is what pro-lifers do. Birds fly, fish swim, and pro-lifers lie, as you so splendidly demonstrates.

Quote: in Nehtelands murder for the sick and the old is legal. A lie.

Quote: How long will it be till we are legal to be killed? Legal killing is not murder. :roll:

Plodder · Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 803 Location: USA

Quote: So does a hydatidiform mole that is a tumor.

Quote: Legal killing is not murder ok then defend hitler and saddam. what they did was legal

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

Quote: Ban on Abortion Mocks Human Dignity

No, abortions destroy humanity. Killing a life to make your own easier and not have to face the consequences of your own actions is about as undignified as you can possibly get.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

Plodder wrote: Quote: So does a hydatidiform mole that is a tumor. Specifically formed through conception.

Quote: Quote: Legal killing is not murder ok then defend hitler and saddam. what they did was legal :roll: :roll: :roll: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: Ban on Abortion Mocks Human Dignity No, abortions destroy humanity. humanity has throived despite abortions being available for millenia.

Quote: Killing a life to make your own easier and not have to face the consequences of your own actions is about as undignified as you can possibly get. Yet, you kill life every time you eat.

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

Quote: Yet, you kill life every time you eat. That is the natural way of things. Having sex for pleasure then killing your child before it is born is not natural. Its the destruction of that persons humanity.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: Yet, you kill life every time you eat. That is the natural way of things. Having sex for pleasure then killing your child before it is born is not natural. Surgery, hot water fossets and cars are not natural. that aside, your lying claims about developmental stages doesn't do anything to further your silly claims.

Quote: Its the destruction of that persons humanity. Nope.

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

Again steen cant do anything to refute the claims just uses RvW to call everything pro life a lie.

Jay2014 · Joined: 31 May 2005 Posts: 1243

Plodder wrote: Quote: So does a hydatidiform mole that is a tumor.

Quote: Legal killing is not murder ok then defend hitler and saddam. what they did was legal

"murder" is a legal construct. by the very nature of the term, things like abortion, or capital punishment for that matter, can not be murder if they are legal, murder has illegality as a prerequisite. that abortion is not murder does nothing to end the debate, as it still may very well be immoral. but it is not, by deffinition, murder.

obviously, what they did was not considered legal by everyone. hussein is on trial for what he did, and hitler would have been hung at nuremburg had he not ender his own life first.

Iandefor · Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 55

AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: Yet, you kill life every time you eat. That is the natural way of things. Having sex for pleasure then killing your child before it is born is not natural. Its the destruction of that persons humanity. Actually, abortions occur in many cultures who have had little or no contact with one another, which indicates that it is naturally occuring. In those culures, it helps to keep populations down, which is necessary for those people to maintain their way of life. Also, times may not always be conducive to having and raising children (ie, drought), so it makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint to be able to abort if a naturally arising pregnancy doesn't have the common courtesy to recognize that now's not a great time. I'm not making any arguments for or against abortion here, I'm just saying that it's a survival tactic that does have evolutionary origins.

Quote:
Any girl with real dignity would not go sleeping around and getting herself pregnant from premarital sex in the first place. What about rape?

Quote:
Sex education is just a promotion for pre marital sex. Not really. Having taken a few sex ed courses, all I've ever gotten from them is that there is no scientific reason that premarital sex is wrong- it all comes down to one's own values.

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

Quote: Actually, abortions occur in many cultures who have had little or no contact with one another So might any immoral act such as murder and rape. You cant classify any human action as natural in the sense that it is without human interference.

Iandefor · Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 55

AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: Actually, abortions occur in many cultures who have had little or no contact with one another So might any immoral act such as murder and rape. You cant classify any human action as natural in the sense that it is without human interference. If a behaviour isn't culturally defined or naturally occuring, then what is it? I'm just curious here.