Political Crossfire Forums

[Citizendave]

The leading researcher won't comment since he studies GW as an ecologist and not as a climatologist. I do have another e-mail in with a leading international skeptic with whom I've corresponded before.

I did hear back from CO2 Science.org.

Citizendave wrote:
Hello,

I asked Sherwood Idso in 2004 if the CO2 content of earth's atmosphere had changed due to industrial output of CO2? I took his response to mean "yes."

[url]
http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/articles/V8/N48/EDIT.jsp
[/url]

The article at this link above indicates otherwise. What is the current position of CO2science.org? Do you continue to believe that industrial output is the culprit?


Staff wrote:
The 2004 statement and the cited article are not inconsistent. In the last 150 years CO2 has risen for a reason that did not exist in the earlier glacial/interglacial periods, when other phenomena were causing it to rise and fall. Also, we would not call industrialization the "culprit," only the "cause."


I went back and re-read the article at

[url] http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/articles/V8/N48/EDIT.jsp [/url]

And I think I understand what's going on: CO2 Science.org is saying that the researcher did not accurately represent the data regarding historical changes in rise in termpeature and CO2 concentration.

Even so, and at the same time, if you read the article in the link below, CO2 Science.org does appear to believe that:

1) CO2 levels are currently being raised by industrial output.
2) The increase in CO2 is raising the temperature of the planet somewhat.

[url]
http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/education/reports/extinction/mr1ch12.jsp [/url]

"To summarize, both theory and observation paint the same picture. A goodly portion of earth's plants and animals should actually expand their ranges and gain a stronger foothold on the planet as the atmosphere's temperature and CO2 concentration continue to rise."

The BBC's article on the research that CO2 Science.org has qualms with is:

Quote:
24 November 2005

CO2 'highest for 650,000 years'

Current levels of the greenhouse gases carbon dioxide and methane in the atmosphere are higher now than at any time in the past 650,000 years.

....Over a five year period commencing in 1999, scientists working with the European Project for Ice Coring in Antarctica (Epica) have drilled 3,270m into the Dome C ice....

...."We find that CO2 is about 30% higher than at any time, and methane 130% higher than at any time; and the rates of increase are absolutely exceptional: for CO2, 200 times faster than at any time in the last 650,000 years." ....

[url] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4467420.stm [/url]



CO2 Science.org disputes the regular, historical relationship between temperature and CO2 that the researchers claim to have found. But their article about the research does not directly refute that our current levels of CO2 are causing warming.

Quote:
there is plenty of reason to believe that CO2 plays but a minor role in enhancing temperature changes that are clearly induced by something else, which latter italicized point is an undisputed fact that is clearly born out by the new ice core data.

[url] http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/articles/V8/N48/EDIT.jsp [/url]

Here I think they mean that historically CO2 played "but a minor role" in enhancing change. Currently CO2 (since the industrial revolution has increased it by 1/3) the atmosphere's temperature will continue to rise.

I have a final e-mail in to the staff at CO2 Science.org, and I expect that I understand their position.

[Citizendave]

Hello perdidochas,

I've heard back from CO2 Science.org regarding temperatures causing CO2 to increase. But first I wanted to comb through some of what you said earlier:

perdidochas wrote:
I meant what is the source for those numbers for global CO2 inputs and outputs.

Do I not understand you? Page 3 of the link I posted. [url] http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/FTPROOT/environment/057302.pdf [/url]


perdidochas wrote:
I don't think the pre-historical data is accurate enough to make some of the predictions I've read.
So what your saying is, some of the predictions you believe. Just curious, which are those?

perdidochas wrote:
There are some that argue that the increased CO2 level is DUE to global warming....

You would be referring to the Association of British Drivers at the link you provided:

Quote:
Anthropogenic climate change (man-made global warming theory), based on the claimed impact of CO2 emissions from transport and industry, is stone cold dead.

[url] www.abd.org.uk/co2_cause_or_effect.htm [/url]


I guess we can expect that the Association of British Drivers will contact BP Amoco and BP Amoco will take down these words from their home page and go after the theory of human induced GW:

Quote:
What size is your footprint? Find out how your household and lifestyle choices affect your CO2 emissions (a factor in global warming) and what BP is doing

[url] http://www.bp.com/home.do?categoryId=1 [/url]



Since BP Amoco is an influential and rich corporation, they will be able to get this astounding new information onto the front page of business friendly newspapers such as the Wall Street Journal: the theory of human induced GW is "stone cold dead," because when scientists look back over the past 650,000 years, they don't fully understand the role of CO2.

CO2 Science.org is much more circumspect when viewing the same data as the Association of British Drivers. In response to my e-mail a staffer at CO2 Science.org wrote:

Quote:
Some of the rise in CO2 is due to industrial activity, but some is likely also due to rising temperatures. Some of the rise in temperature may be due to rising CO2, but there are various negative feedbacks of both a climatic and biological nature that could well be negating most of the enhanced greenhouse effect of the rising CO2 concentration, such that the majority of recent warming could well be due to something else.


That is a very indirect way of acknowledging that CO2 Science.org believes that CO2 levels are currently being raised by industrial output
and the increase in CO2 is raising the temperature of the planet somewhat.

perdidochas wrote:
I don't think we know what all of the cycles that cause global warming are.

It would be nice if we understood the history of CO2's interactions with world climate, but anyone who seizes upon that lack of understanding and claims that there is no current crisis is just wrong.