Political Crossfire Forums

[Sataere]

It just really hit me today, when gay men act feminine isn't that showing some heterosexuality, or at least gender confusion? And when lesbian females act masculine doesn't that also show it? I don't know If I'm really interpreting it right at all, but if gay couples truly loved the same sex as who they were, wouldn't gay men be extremely masculine and gay women act extremely feminine? Any ideas on the reasons for this?

[Enoch]

Sataere wrote: It just really hit me today, when gay men act feminine isn't that showing some heterosexuality, or at least gender confusion? And when lesbian females act masculine doesn't that also show it? I don't know If I'm really interpreting it right at all, but if gay couples truly loved the same sex as who they were, wouldn't gay men be extremely masculine and gay women act extremely feminine? Any ideas on the reasons for this?

You are confusing sexual orientation and gender. Those are two completely seperate issues.

Sexual orientation is completely independent of whether or not someone shows masculine, feminine, or androgynous traits. Straight men can be feminine, and still be straight.

[Leon Czolgosz]

I truely understand what it is to be gay now thanks to that original post, as you have confused me.

[ToonArmyIsComing]

UrielsFyre wrote: Sataere wrote: It just really hit me today, when gay men act feminine isn't that showing some heterosexuality, or at least gender confusion? And when lesbian females act masculine doesn't that also show it? I don't know If I'm really interpreting it right at all, but if gay couples truly loved the same sex as who they were, wouldn't gay men be extremely masculine and gay women act extremely feminine? Any ideas on the reasons for this?

You are confusing sexual orientation and gender. Those are two completely seperate issues.

Sexual orientation is completely independent of whether or not someone shows masculine, feminine, or androgynous traits. Straight men can be feminine, and still be straight.

No, because characteristics are gendered by the society (ie: strength being a manly thing). The gays are only "confused" in that they don't follow the social construct of gender role.

Amusingly though, gays are also influenced by the gay culture, which also constructs men as who "feminine".

I witnessed this first hand: I used to have a friend who was gay, but was really "manly". When he started sociolizing with some really "feminine" gay people, he really changed in terms of his behaviour, etc and became more like them. So there is a great social influence in how gays behave.

[Enoch]

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: Sataere wrote: It just really hit me today, when gay men act feminine isn't that showing some heterosexuality, or at least gender confusion? And when lesbian females act masculine doesn't that also show it? I don't know If I'm really interpreting it right at all, but if gay couples truly loved the same sex as who they were, wouldn't gay men be extremely masculine and gay women act extremely feminine? Any ideas on the reasons for this?

You are confusing sexual orientation and gender. Those are two completely seperate issues.

Sexual orientation is completely independent of whether or not someone shows masculine, feminine, or androgynous traits. Straight men can be feminine, and still be straight.

No, because characteristics are gendered by the society (ie: strength being a manly thing). The gays are only "confused" in that they don't follow the social construct of gender role.

Amusingly though, gays are also influenced by the gay culture, which also constructs men as who "feminine".

I witnessed this first hand: I used to have a friend who was gay, but was really "manly". When he started sociolizing with some really "feminine" gay people, he really changed in terms of his behaviour, etc and became more like them. So there is a great social influence in how gays behave. As a gay man, I think I have a bit more experience with the gay community than you do.

But, that still doesn't matter.

Sexual orientation and affectation (masculine, feminine) are independent characteristics. There is NO evidence to link them. You can find masculine gay men and feminine straight men.

[Æ]

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: No, because characteristics are gendered by the society (ie: strength being a manly thing). The gays are only "confused" in that they don't follow the social construct of gender role.
Many people don't follow the construct of gender role. Those who do follow it suffer unnecessarily.

Quote: Amusingly though, gays are also influenced by the gay culture, which also constructs men as who "feminine".
This is a generalization and an incorrect one at that.

Quote: I witnessed this first hand: I used to have a friend who was gay, but was really "manly". When he started sociolizing with some really "feminine" gay people, he really changed in terms of his behaviour, etc and became more like them. So there is a great social influence in how gays behave.
There is great social influnce in how everyone behaves. As opposed to individual relationships, group relationships are more utilitarian and individual differences become less important than group cohesion.