Political Crossfire Forums

Pebble · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 1143

Quote: The Conservative Party remains "right wing and unpleasant" to its core, according to Liberal Democrat leader Sir Menzies Campbell.

He also questioned whether the party had changed since Tory leader David Cameron became leader last December.

Sir Menzies said Labour and the Tories were essentially "disputing about management" but the Liberal Democrats were "values and principles based".

He made the comments in an interview with the ePolitix.com website.

"As an occasional Presbyterian I know that 'by thee works thou shall know them' is true," said Sir Menzies.

"It's not what people say that matters it is what they do and how they vote."

And, in a scathing attack on the Conservative leader, he went on: "Who drafted the Conservative manifesto of 2005? It was David Cameron.

"And most people consider it to be one of the most right-wing, unpleasant documents since 1945 and I don't think the party has really changed.

"At its core it is still right-wing and unpleasant."

The Lib Dem leader said his party offered "timeless values" that had "stood the test of time and critical judgment", in contrast to their main rivals.

"I want our party to be the party of ideas and I want people to be willing and able to indulge in fresh thinking," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4908978.stm

Never fear 'Greaves, your party are still "right-wing and unpleasant". :lol:

Hard hitting Menzies Cambell is appears, I really haven't formed an opinion on him yet, though he appears to wish to drag the Lib Dems further to the right, making them very, very Central possibly centre right, rather than left leaning.

Lord Hargreaves · Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject:

lol well its hard to see what on earth Ming is talking about - if he could point to what Dave has done since he was leader which qualifies as "right wing and unpleasant" it would be a start. Just rhetoric.

The liberal left is going to have to decide which strategy they are going to use against the newly confident Conservatives: either they are still nasty and haven't changed, or they are just becoming a pale comparison of the current lefty consensus. Ming appears to be opting for the former, Blair the later... we'll have to see which of the two Dave's main opponent to be the next prime minister - Gordon Brown - takes.

Lord Hargreaves · Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject:

The irony of one leader calling another leader "right wing", something which neither understands, appears to go right over the head of the BBC :lol:

Pebble · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 1143

Lord Hargreaves wrote: lol well its hard to see what on earth Ming is talking about - if he could point to what Dave has done since he was leader which qualifies as "right wing and unpleasant" it would be a start. Just rhetoric.

He seems to base it on your new manifesto, which I haven't read so I really can't judge...in fact I haven't even seen a summary... :?

Quote: The liberal left is going to have to decide which strategy they are going to use against the newly confident Conservatives: either they are still nasty and haven't changed, or they are just becoming a pale comparison of the current lefty consensus. Ming appears to be opting for the former, Blair the later... we'll have to see which of the two Dave's main opponent to be the next prime minister - Gordon Brown - takes.

Ah but you see, I would class neither of them as 'the liberal left'. Menzies Cambell (Ming???) is I feel far more centrist than anything, I feel perhaps some oppurtunism in the works. Needless to say his greatest task will be convincing the public that the Lib Dems can make and susatin the gains they need for office, and he needs to give the party more credibility. They have some good policies, and IMO, beat the other two by a mile right now.

Though both Blair and Cameron are weak Conservatives...Brown is suposedly more left wing, at least the remaning back benchers seem to think he has more hope than the incumbent. Like you say, we shall see.

Snow Patrol · Joined: 30 May 2005 Posts: 2175 Location: Glasgow

Pebble wrote: Lord Hargreaves wrote: lol well its hard to see what on earth Ming is talking about - if he could point to what Dave has done since he was leader which qualifies as "right wing and unpleasant" it would be a start. Just rhetoric.
He seems to base it on your new manifesto, which I haven't read so I really can't judge...in fact I haven't even seen a summary... :?

The intro to it is on the party site with the full manifesto (Warning: .pdf format) at the bottom, if you want a general overview you can probably find one if you google it. Opinions of it are of course subjective, but it's interesting to note how much ofit has since been changed or dropped completely.

pishoo · Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 5

IF THE CONSERVATIVES EVER GET INTO POWER IN THIS COUNTRY I WOULD ACCTUALY LEAVE IMMEDATLY THEY WOULD DRAG THIS COUNTRY DOWN. BACK TO THE OLD DAYS!

thundertaker · Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject:

pishoo wrote: IF THE CONSERVATIVES EVER GET INTO POWER IN THIS COUNTRY I WOULD ACCTUALY LEAVE IMMEDATLY THEY WOULD DRAG THIS COUNTRY DOWN. BACK TO THE OLD DAYS!

Wouldn't you have to wait until you're old enough to leave you're parents first?

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1458 Location: UK / Hungary

pishoo wrote: IF THE CONSERVATIVES EVER GET INTO POWER IN THIS COUNTRY I WOULD ACCTUALY LEAVE IMMEDATLY THEY WOULD DRAG THIS COUNTRY DOWN. BACK TO THE OLD DAYS!

After Labour have finished with it, I don't think this country could be dragged much lower!! :lol: :lol:

pishoo · Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 5

I'm quite sure that the conservatives could drag it just that little lower.

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1458 Location: UK / Hungary

pishoo wrote: I'm quite sure that the conservatives could drag it just that little lower.

Oh come on. You can't get much worse than what you have at the moment!! Health service crisis, motorists taxed to death, crime spiraling out of control, sleaze taken to new heights.... etc.etc. I'm not saying the Conservatives would be some magical cure. In fact I'm sure they would be terrible, just not as terrible as Labour!!!!

Eton · Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 9:56 am Post subject:

MoscowMatt, are you insane!

Things today, domestically are much better than they were under the tory misrule.
Though people percieve that crime is rampant, in reality crime has fallen by 25% since Labour came to power. Likewise, though people percieve the NHS to be a mess, there are more doctors, nurses and consultants than ever before, and more native doctors, nurses etc AND much better paid than ever before. Waiting lists are now mostly in the weeks rather than the months as existed under the tories. Yes there is sleeze, but that is endemic to politics, plus at least Labour is not hypocritical about it, how often did the tories bang on about Victorian values only to be discovered in bed with a young boy or prostitute?

True petrol pices are high, so why not try public transport for a change?

Sorry, things are no where near as bad as they were under the unbelievably inept Major government and the criminally divisive Thatcher government.

Szia!

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1458 Location: UK / Hungary

Eton wrote: MoscowMatt, are you insane!

Things today, domestically are much better than they were under the tory misrule.
Though people percieve that crime is rampant, in reality crime has fallen by 25% since Labour came to power. Likewise, though people percieve the NHS to be a mess, there are more doctors, nurses and consultants than ever before, and more native doctors, nurses etc AND much better paid than ever before. Waiting lists are now mostly in the weeks rather than the months as existed under the tories. Yes there is sleeze, but that is endemic to politics, plus at least Labour is not hypocritical about it, how often did the tories bang on about Victorian values only to be discovered in bed with a young boy or prostitute?

Quote: True petrol pices are high, so why not try public transport for a change ?

Sorry, things are no where near as bad as they were under the unbelievably inept Major government and the criminally divisive Thatcher government.

Szia!

Quote: Though people percieve that crime is rampant, in reality crime has fallen by 25% since Labour came to power

Care to provide some figures to support this claim??

Quote: Likewise, though people percieve the NHS to be a mess, there are more doctors, nurses and consultants than ever before, and more native doctors, nurses etc AND much better paid than ever before

Funny. There was me thinking we were desperatley recruting from abroad as no-one here wants to do the job for the pittance that is paid.

Quote: True petrol pices are high, so why not try public transport for a change

:lol: :lol: :lol: Would that be the ONE bus every THREE hours that goes past my door that I should be taking then!!! :roll: We don't all live in town's and cities in the UK you know!!!

Seeing as you think Labour are so great perhaps you would care to comment on issues such as foreign prisoners, ASBO's, oooo what a deterrent!! :lol: And of course how Prescott can still be on his salary when he's been stripped of most of his responsibilities. Oh the list is endless. Obviously your opinion is in the minority as shown by the recent local election results!!! What do you think that says people think about Labour?!!!

Yes you can go on about Thatcher, but then hey lets mention the winter of discontent!! Politics is about now. It's pointless dragging things up from 20 odd years ago, because in case you haven't noticed Thatcher is no longer the leader of the Conservatives!!!!

Eton · Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 6:01 am Post subject:

The figures I got from the Economist, which as you know is a hard core neo-liberal rag and has been telling readers to vote Tory since 1997 and before! I think it was two weeks ago that it did a special on the achievements of Labour. Incidently this week's magazine looks at ASBO's and how Britain is seen as the most yobbish country in Europe - essentially concluding that their is a malaise in British society that allow it to happen, it notes, that people in Germany are more than two times more likely to intervene to stop idiots vandalising a bus stop compared to British people.
I don't blame this on Labour, but rather on the relentless drive to the Right that British society is moving, where if something doesn't make money then it is not worth getting involved in. It is no coincidence that the rise in anti-social behaviour corresponded with the selling off of playing fields, the kids had no where to go except on street corners.

Yes we have been recruiting like mad from abroad to make up for the 18 years of Tory neglect. However now the fruits of Labour policies are beginning to show with more British doctors and nurses graduating from universities than ever before precisely because they are being paid much better.

Let's not start on the local elections, it was a chance to kick the government/Tony Blair in the teeth, a dismally small percentage of people actually voted and it is never an acurate predictor of a general election.

I'm saying all of this as someone who has never voted Labour and never will, but to talk about how Britain is falling apart is just absurd. We were the sick man of Europe under Thatcher and Major but now we have got a bit more spunk in us. :-D

Viszlat!

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1458 Location: UK / Hungary

Curious that you sing Labour's praises yet would never vote for them!! Surely the idea is to vote for a party if you think they are doing a good job!!!

Don't tell me you think the Lib Dems should be in power, please!!!! :lol: :lol:

Eton · Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject:

I sing Labour's praises where it is deserved, they have buggered up things in other areas I'm the first to concede that. What I object to is the overblown hysteria that has led some people to claim that Labour has 'destroyed Britain'! I mean how have they done so?

As for the Liberal Democrats, well they could hardly do a worse job than the Tories and Labour, especially the former.

As far as I am concerned, the majority of voters in this country vote for the progressive parties - Labour/Liberal Democrats/Scots Nationalists/Plaid Cymru/Green etc whereas a minority vote for reactionary parties - Conservative/BNP/UKIP. Furthermore considering that the Conservatives are essentially the party of English shires, they can never claim to speak for the whole of the UK. Which is why they should never be allowed into government.

Pebble · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 1143

Eton wrote: I sing Labour's praises where it is deserved, they have buggered up things in other areas I'm the first to concede that. What I object to is the overblown hysteria that has led some people to claim that Labour has 'destroyed Britain'! I mean how have they done so?

As for the Liberal Democrats, well they could hardly do a worse job than the Tories and Labour, especially the former.

As far as I am concerned, the majority of voters in this country vote for the progressive parties - Labour/Liberal Democrats/Scots Nationalists/Plaid Cymru/Green etc whereas a minority vote for reactionary parties - Conservative/BNP/UKIP. Furthermore considering that the Conservatives are essentially the party of English shires, they can never claim to speak for the whole of the UK. Which is why they should never be allowed into government.

No party could be said to speak for the whole of the UK, as no one has ever recieved a 100% share of the vote.

Eton · Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 10:49 am Post subject:

Yes but the Labour party has MPs in England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland (through their sister party the SDLP), the cities and the shires.

Likewise the Liberal Democrats on a smaller scale.

The Conservatives on the other hand only have real representation in rural England and almost no representation in the cities, Scotland and Wales.