Political Crossfire Forums

[Plodder]

please show me where you got that info

[cap'n queasy]

steen wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: http://www.ppl.org/cg3.html

Fetuses feel pain as early as the 56th day. The claim of your source is outright false.

Sorry, but I'm going to need more than just your word for it.

[Plodder]

exactly, (im agreeing with queasy, the world is ending.)

[The Grandmaster]

steen wrote: Plodder wrote: Ummm. these are specialists on the subject and you are a 40 yr old man who sits in his couch eating tatoe chips.

Quote: Dr. Collins writes that the unborn child's ability to feel pain comes quite early in pregnancy:

Functioning neurological structures necessary for pain sensation are in place as early as 8 weeks, but certainly by 13-1/2 weeks...By 13-1/2 weeks, the entire sensory nervous system functions as a whole in all parts of the body (except in the skin or the back of the head) (7).


its prettery self explanatory here The claim is stiull false, as none of the signals can reach the brain's cortex until the end of the 26th week of pregnancy anyway.

Exactly Steen, once again, the anti-choicers are appealing to a field in which there is no consensus in order to attempt to draw conclusions.

[mattwa33193]

Plodder wrote: Quote: believe they are not deserving of any moral protection by themselves, but that their life and what is to be done with it is the responsibility of others; ideally the person's family, but barring that, the responsibility should fall to the state ok ill go and kill you once you need to be spoon fed if that s ok with you? you are turning life into property, its like slavery once agin except that now you are property if you are really young or really old.

And since modern medicine can keep most people "alive" in a totally vegetative state basically forever, then by your logic only people who manage to be dead before they get to the hospital will get to go to heaven from now on. After all, aren't we morally bound to maintain their lives if we are able?

Fetuses in the early stages of development are no more alive than brain dead adults are.

[Plodder]

Quote: After all, aren't we morally bound to maintain their lives if we are able?

Fetuses in the early stages of development are no more alive than brain dead adults are.

completely alive then.



Quote: Exactly Steen, once again, the anti-choicers are appealing to a field in which there is no consensus in order to attempt to draw conclusions. you pro death people still cannotr give one source. why cause there is none. if there is prove me wrong. insted of agreeing amongst yourselfves that you are right.

[The Grandmaster]

Plodder wrote:

Quote: Exactly Steen, once again, the anti-choicers are appealing to a field in which there is no consensus in order to attempt to draw conclusions. you pro death people still cannotr give one source. why cause there is none. if there is prove me wrong. insted of agreeing amongst yourselfves that you are right.

You might try actually reading through the threads then. My sources have been posted time and time again, as well as Steen's. Look for one of my numerous entries from the Developmental Biology Book.

[AllAmericanMan]

It doesnt matter how different the developing human life is from a fully grown adult. It is a developing human life form, created from the act of sexual reproduction. You know mass murderers try to dehumanize their victims before killing them, same is going on here. Try to distance yourself from that baby you are letting die.

[mattwa33193]

AllAmericanMan wrote: It doesnt matter how different the developing human life is from a fully grown adult. It is a developing human life form, created from the act of sexual reproduction. You know mass murderers try to dehumanize their victims before killing them, same is going on here. Try to distance yourself from that baby you are letting die.

It has the potential to become a human. And at the point where it actually has a brain and a semblance of a nervous system, abortion stops being legal.

If you want to switch the argument to the loss of that potential and the cost of that, then there is something to talk about.

[cap'n queasy]

AllAmericanMan wrote: It doesnt matter how different the developing human life is from a fully grown adult. It is a developing human life form, created from the act of sexual reproduction. You know mass murderers try to dehumanize their victims before killing them, same is going on here. Try to distance yourself from that baby you are letting die.

Exactly. It is nothing but dehumanizing a human being to justify infanticide.

[cap'n queasy]

It has the potential to become a human being only prior to the sex act and that is when the choice should be made.

[mattwa33193]

cap'n queasy wrote: It has the potential to become a human being only prior to the sex act and that is when the choice should be made.

Has the potential to become a human being right up until it actually becomes one. That's what potential means.

[steen]

Plodder wrote: you pro death people still cannotr give one source. other than your false claim about us, you pro-slavery fiend, you, sources have been provided MANY times, incl. AFAIR in this tread. Now, if you don't read the references and then claim that they haven't been provided, then that is dishonest.

Now, the references and abstracts have been provided, yet you still claim there have been no sources provided. Either you are dishonest and outright lying, or you have some kind of disagreement with the referenced evidence, a disagreement you have not bothered to state Which is it?

Quote: why cause there is none. if there is prove me wrong. insted of agreeing amongst yourselfves that you are right. And your claim remains a lie.

[steen]

AllAmericanMan wrote: It doesnt matter how different the developing human life is from a fully grown adult. Correct. regardless of how developed or personified you seek to make the embryo or fetus, it still would not have the right to use a person's body against her will.

Quote: It is a developing human life form, created from the act of sexual reproduction. Just like hydatidiform mole, yes. So what?

Quote: You know mass murderers try to dehumanize their victims before killing them, same is going on here. Ah, a lying ad hominem. We would expect nothing less from pro-lifers.

Quote: Try to distance yourself from that baby you are letting die. Claptrap ignorant nonsense, as there is no baby until birth.

[mattwa33193]

Plodder wrote: Quote: After all, aren't we morally bound to maintain their lives if we are able?

Fetuses in the early stages of development are no more alive than brain dead adults are.

completely alive then.



Quote: Exactly Steen, once again, the anti-choicers are appealing to a field in which there is no consensus in order to attempt to draw conclusions. you pro death people still cannotr give one source. why cause there is none. if there is prove me wrong. insted of agreeing amongst yourselfves that you are right.

Source that says what? That it is impossible to feel pain without a functioning brain and nervous system?

[steen]

cap'n queasy wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: It doesnt matter how different the developing human life is from a fully grown adult. It is a developing human life form, created from the act of sexual reproduction. You know mass murderers try to dehumanize their victims before killing them, same is going on here. Try to distance yourself from that baby you are letting die. Exactly. It is nothing but dehumanizing a human being to justify infanticide. more nonsense, as there is no infant. You guys sure are good at spewing the deceptive revisionist linguistic hyperbole and emotional histrionics. Rather short on facts in your guys silly claims, though.

[Plodder]

go to any pregnancy web page and they will not say fetus or mindless tissue. no, they will say,: baby, infant, child. ect.

http://pregnancy.about.com/
http://parenting.ivillage.com/
just google pregnancy

[mattwa33193]

Plodder wrote: go to any pregnancy web page and they will not say fetus or mindless tissue. no, they will say,: baby, infant, child. ect.

http://pregnancy.about.com/
http://parenting.ivillage.com/
just google pregnancy

But it is mindless, for quite a while. That is a fact. No mind whatsoever during the first trimester.

[AllAmericanMan]

Steen youre real good at calling everything nonsense and propaganda but you never actually say anything about anything.

[steen]

AllAmericanMan wrote: Steen youre real good at calling everything nonsense and propaganda but you never actually say anything about anything. As long as you guys are outright lying, there is no point in doing anything else than calling you on incessant lies