Political Crossfire Forums

Meatball · Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 18

garyd wrote:
The minute you give your child a condom you are giving him or her your permission to use others to suit themselves as long as they don't get sick and you are guaranteeing them that there won't be negative consequences for such actions.
People are still going to do what they want to do, no matter how they get to it (if they are really set on doing it). Here's what I've learned. If someone wants to do something; they will. And if someone wants to quit something; they will. No person can stop another person from using drugs/having sex/stopping sex/stopping the use of drugs, etc. I've also learned that someone must doing something for them self, and not another.
Example:
When someone wants to quit smoking; they will (given they're in the situation)...
...But if that child has a condom/birth control (whatever it may be) on them, you know, and they know that it is better than having unsafe sex.
If a child wants to have sex with another, and is set on it; they will.
If a mother tries to quit smoking for their child, she won't be able to quit...
...But if that mother tries to quit smoking (and believes she must do it for herself) with the mindset that she is going to do it because she doesn't want her child raised with smoke around her (She is doing it for herself); she will be able to quit smoking.

To say you're promoting sex, or setting an example by saying that sex is alright, would be false (or in my mind). I'll explain why...
You may not be promoting the act of sex is good, but you might be promoting that safe sex is better than not safe sex. Like I've stated (Seen many times (never failing), liven, shown, learned) that one cannot stop another from their actions ... As their actions are not yours, but theirs.

Korimyr the Rat · Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 983 Location: Wyoming

My folks bought me a big box of condoms every birthday between the ages of thirteen and eighteen. By around fifteen, I figured they were probably just mocking me.

Damn right I'm going to make sure my own kids have a supply, just as soon as they start sniffing at the other sex. I just hope they're not as socially incompetent as I was at that age.

Kumar · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 16293 Location: Prague

I would not. Then again, my position is a little unique, because in my culture it is understood that premarital sex is unacceptable. Even when couples date, sex is off limits for the most part.

Meatball · Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 18

Kumar wrote: I would not. Then again, my position is a little unique, because in my culture it is understood that premarital sex is unacceptable. Even when couples date, sex is off limits for the most part.
So what's your reasoning for not giving the child a condom?
I know your culture says premarital sex is off limits, but what is to stop them if they were to? Could you explain why you wouldn't give a condom to your child?

Kumar · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 16293 Location: Prague

Meatball wrote: Kumar wrote: I would not. Then again, my position is a little unique, because in my culture it is understood that premarital sex is unacceptable. Even when couples date, sex is off limits for the most part.
So what's your reasoning for not giving the child a condom?
I know your culture says premarital sex is off limits, but what is to stop them if they were to? Could you explain why you wouldn't give a condom to your child?
First of all, most don't even date. Emphasis is placed on establishing a successful career and becoming well-educated, at which point the marriage is either 100% arranged by the family (siblings or parents), or you are introduced to someone acceptable through social connections.

Those that do choose to date are closely scrutinized by the society. It's probably difficult to understand without being exposed to the severe consequences that would result from such an act.

It is drilled into your head from an early age that duty to family comes first. As such, the thought of doing something to ruin the family's honor or position in society is a no-no.

Meatball · Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 18

Kumar wrote: Meatball wrote: Kumar wrote: I would not. Then again, my position is a little unique, because in my culture it is understood that premarital sex is unacceptable. Even when couples date, sex is off limits for the most part.
So what's your reasoning for not giving the child a condom?
I know your culture says premarital sex is off limits, but what is to stop them if they were to? Could you explain why you wouldn't give a condom to your child?
First of all, most don't even date. Emphasis is placed on establishing a successful career and becoming well-educated, at which point the marriage is either 100% arranged by the family (siblings or parents), or you are introduced to someone acceptable through social connections.

Those that do choose to date are closely scrutinized by the society. It's probably difficult to understand without being exposed to the severe consequences that would result from such an act.

It is drilled into your head from an early age that duty to family comes first. As such, the thought of doing something to ruin the family's honor or position in society is a no-no.
If you had read the first post, it stated the situation.
Back on topic:
Well, I'm trying to say that no kid is perfect. Like someone before me has said...They're not all mommy's perfect angels. So the chance of it happening is still there (be it even slim to none).
And given the situation, would you?

Kumar · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 16293 Location: Prague

Meatball wrote:
If you had read the first post, it stated the situation.
Back on topic:
Well, I'm trying to say that no kid is perfect. Like someone before me has said...They're not all mommy's perfect angels. So the chance of it happening is still there (be it even slim to none).
And given the situation, would you?
You asked what is to stop them from doing it, and I outlined the various factors working against it. Is there a chance it will happen? Of course. There is always a chance. Would I "pre-emptively" put out a basket of condoms as a safeguard? No. The safeguard is a firm grounding in cultural norms.

That's not to say I would keep my kids ignorant on methods of birth control. Being open about it and choosing not to partake in it are not mutually exclusive.

Meatball · Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 18

Kumar wrote:
You asked what is to stop them from doing it, and I outlined the various factors working against it. Is there a chance it will happen? Of course. There is always a chance. Would I "pre-emptively" put out a basket of condoms as a safeguard? No. The safeguard is a firm grounding in cultural norms.

That's a good point (I'm not trying to be sarcastic at all). Do you think that your culture is a better safeguard than you giving your son a condom?
I'm just looking for a yes or no answer, because you really do have a good point for the other side of the debate. I'm not going to debate your yes or no answer, just looking forward to hearing it. (You can explain why you chose yes, or no if you want...to help me better understand).

Kumar · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 16293 Location: Prague

Meatball wrote: Kumar wrote:
You asked what is to stop them from doing it, and I outlined the various factors working against it. Is there a chance it will happen? Of course. There is always a chance. Would I "pre-emptively" put out a basket of condoms as a safeguard? No. The safeguard is a firm grounding in cultural norms.

That's a good point (I'm not trying to be sarcastic at all). Do you think that your culture is a better safeguard than you giving your son a condom?
I'm just looking for a yes or no answer, because you really do have a good point for the other side of the debate. I'm not going to debate your yes or no answer, just looking forward to hearing it. (You can explain why you chose yes, or no if you want...to help me better understand).
I believe it is, on a general level. If it helps, I voted "No" in the poll. But the situation is a little more complex than that for me. As I stated, I would not pre-emptively supply condoms, but at the same time my kids would be educated about birth control.

JLChrista · Joined: 05 Jul 2005 Posts: 74

I notice that all if not most of these responses are referring to male teens being given condoms. I would like to say I made sure both my male child AND my female child had access to condoms. That way if someone whom my daughter determined was useful in a sexual way didn't have a condom, she did. Now this may seem to be promoting sexual activity; but even now as she is well past 21, many men don't carry condoms just so they can push the idea of unprotected sex it seems. I understand their perspective because condoms suck, BUT nonetheless, no matter what she has the condoms if they don't. AND remember that thought birth control pills are more effective against pregnancy, even if a girl is on BCP's, a condom should be used to avoid STD's.

Meatball · Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 18

JLChrista wrote: I notice that all if not most of these responses are referring to male teens being given condoms. I would like to say I made sure both my male child AND my female child had access to condoms. That way if someone whom my daughter determined was useful in a sexual way didn't have a condom, she did. Now this may seem to be promoting sexual activity; but even now as she is well past 21, many men don't carry condoms just so they can push the idea of unprotected sex it seems. I understand their perspective because condoms suck, BUT nonetheless, no matter what she has the condoms if they don't. AND remember that thought birth control pills are more effective against pregnancy, even if a girl is on BCP's, a condom should be used to avoid STD's.
I tried to have it be ... for lack of a better word "pointing" to both sex's (male/female). It is why I used terms such as child, and not son/daughter (even though I have used son a few times).
Can you tell me why it seems as though you giving a condom/BCP to your child is promoting sexual activity?

JLChrista · Joined: 05 Jul 2005 Posts: 74

Because in my case, I was. Honesty being the best policy. I feared that she would be uptight and frigid like her father. However, even if I hadn't been promoting pre-maritial sex, it could easily be argued that if a boy didn't have a condom, then this is a good time for abstinence on the girl's part. But, since I made sure she had condoms available, it could be construed very easily that I was promoting an "easier" and "more promiscuous" alternative. I did notice that YOU tried to leave the gender of the receiver of condoms open, but the responses were primarily male oriented.

garyd · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 691 Location: tulsa, ok

So people often wish to murder other does that mean we should furnish them guns and ammo?

Kids lie cheat and steal should we not attempt to correct such behavior.

Giving your child a condom is just another way of abrogating parental responsibility.

leftneckredwing · Joined: 13 Nov 2004 Posts: 32350 Location: North America

garyd wrote: So people often wish to murder other does that mean we should furnish them guns and ammo?

Kids lie cheat and steal should we not attempt to correct such behavior.

Giving your child a condom is just another way of abrogating parental responsibility.

The largest parental responsibility is to teach personal responsibility.

Teaching them about birth control and disease prevention would certainly be included in that.

Outright forbidding or banning teenage sex has never had the desired effect.

Education is the key. They could get a condom anyway and if they couldn't, they would have sex when you're not looking. But if you equip them to make good decisions, you will be providing the best condom of all.

garyd · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 691 Location: tulsa, ok

And yet in states with the least abstinence free sex education pregnancey is and std are much higher. By the way because a state is in the Bible belt doesn't necessarily mean that it's educators are doing what the children's parents want in that regard. The NEA is one of the most insular bunch of cretins to have degrees in the country.

leftneckredwing · Joined: 13 Nov 2004 Posts: 32350 Location: North America

garyd wrote: And yet in states with the least abstinence free sex education pregnancey is and std are much higher. By the way because a state is in the Bible belt doesn't necessarily mean that it's educators are doing what the children's parents want in that regard. The NEA is one of the most insular bunch of cretins to have degrees in the country.

I know, I grew up there. Sex education was limited to teaching you how to wash your balls.

That's why I support parental responsibility over govt responsibility. The govt is irresponsible.

I never knocked anyone up that I know of except for my wife, one possible exception. But she was going to have an abortion in any case, so I had no control over the child, just the sperm. She knew my views on children so she never consulted with me, at least that's what her friends told me.

garyd · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 691 Location: tulsa, ok

again sir if a woman screws around enough she will get pregnant my wife was taking birth control pills when she got pregnant with my son. I've got a cousin who got pregnant while on the pill twice. It's rare but it happens.

Condoms are an even worse bet. And giving some one whopis considering the action a false since of security is a best a really bad idea.

If they wanted to play russian roulette I sure as hell wouldn't gven them a revolver and a bullet.

leftneckredwing · Joined: 13 Nov 2004 Posts: 32350 Location: North America

garyd wrote: again sir if a woman screws around enough she will get pregnant my wife was taking birth control pills when she got pregnant with my son. I've got a cousin who got pregnant while on the pill twice. It's rare but it happens.

Condoms are an even worse bet. And giving some one whopis considering the action a false since of security is a best a really bad idea.

If they wanted to play russian roulette I sure as hell wouldn't gven them a revolver and a bullet.

So what to do? Chastity belts?

Nature has given each of us that revolver and the ability to spin the wheel of misfortune.

You are taking a position, but have no real way to enforce it and the participants may or may not observe it.

So just talk to them and show them the consequences, graphically.

That's the best education we can provide.

Meatball · Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 18

To garyd:
A revolver, and a bullet for your child is different from a condom, and sex. Please don't use analogies when trying to prove a point. Especially if your analogy is wrong.
Let me explain. You are not giving your child sex, where as you're analogy is saying you are. You are not giving them a revolver, but cap gun. Do you see my point?
Your point that BCP/Condoms is true, i will not argue that. They do not work 100% of the time, because there is no absolute guarantee. But if your child said they were having unprotected sex, and if you gave them a condom/BCP, they said they would use them... Would you give the condoms/BCP to them?

To JLCrista:
I guess your argument for the other side can be correct just as well as this argument. And you're right, in some cases it can be promoting sexual activity; being if they did not have the condom, they wouldn't have had sex because they would think it would've been unsafe (correct me if I'm wrong).
But you have to take into consideration the statistics taken.

--Based on the 1997 Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance (YRBS) data, over half (51.6%) of all students in grades 9 to 12 indicated that they had not yet had sex.
(And these are the teens who admit to having sex)
-Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. CDC surveillance summaries. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 47 (No. SS-3), 1997

--The primary reason teen-aged girls who have never had intercourse give for abstaining from sex is that having sex would be against their religious or moral values.
(This is not because there was not a condom present)
-Moore, K.A., et al. A Statistical Portrait of Adolescent Sex, Contraception, and Childbearing. The National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy, March 1998.

garyd · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 691 Location: tulsa, ok

Nonsense meatball in either case you are giving them your tacit permission to engage in activities which are dangerous to their health and well being, in fact I would argue that giving them the gun and the bullet would be safer for society at large than giving them the condom.