Political Crossfire Forums

Alula · Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 517

Simon De MontFort I think its rude of you to say.. That liberals would have something to say about Iran having Nuclear Energy or That it would be bad or good because the fact is. We are an ILL informed Nation. Its going to take
twenty years before we actually know for a fact if they had bad intetions with their nuclear inrichment capabilities or it will take all of ten seconds before they blow us up. So don't give me your cack and bull story about liberals
and righties okay cause I'm tired of it.

Ssushi · Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 6380

With all this talk of Iran wanting to acquire nuclear weapons, how about asking; why did we not react the same when Israel acquired them, and why do we allow them to continue holding them?

If Israel didn't own nuclear weapons would Iran want/need them?

If the USA hadn't just invaded two countries next to Iran would they want/need them?

In short, if your country felt under threat from the USA (I'll repeat the statement made so often here) 'the only country in the world to USE nuclear weapons' and from your neighbour who is heavily backed by the USA and armed with nuclear weapons - would you also want to buy into this type of deterrent?

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 6803 Location: Ohio

Wow, way to go completely OFF TOPIC Quicksurf. Hitler has nothing to do with this. You are missing the whole damn point. Killing jews would not cause his country's downfall. Launching a nuke would

BigOMG · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject:

Zoot wrote: Even without having caught quagmired up in Iraq, Iran is a tough call. They have Chinese missiles that fly so fast and low that current US missle-defence systems can't stop them. So the US navy in the Gulf would be f****d, for a start.

Plus, while the US had to invade to get people to support Saddam, people already support the leadership in Iran.

What missiles are you talking about? The brand new super secret super fast missile they displayed with the flying boat last week?
You sure seem to be giving them a lot of credit they haven't earned.

Quicksurf · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 4675

Demonic Spoon wrote: Wow, way to go completely OFF TOPIC Quicksurf. Hitler has nothing to do with this. You are missing the whole damn point. Killing jews would not cause his country's downfall. Launching a nuke would

Can you refute my point that there will always be nutjob dictators who want to kill thousands of people?

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 6803 Location: Ohio

No, that's basic common sense, and I never disagreed with you. You are missing the whole damn point. Whether or not they want to kill people is IRRELEVANT. If Iran launches a nuke, they're f****d. They know that.

Quicksurf · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 4675

Demonic Spoon wrote: No, that's basic common sense, and I never disagreed with you. You are missing the whole damn point. Whether or not they want to kill people is IRRELEVANT. If Iran launches a nuke, they're f****d. They know that.

Whether or not they care if they are f****d is the real question. In a region full of nations who want to see Israel gone, what's to stop him?

steve abdul jabbar · Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 2217

Simon De Montfort wrote:
Dear lord another "It's America's fault" liberal. :roll:

Do I come off as a liberal by being opposed to foreign intervention? I suppose one could get that impression, since the current regime purports to be conservative and is very proactive on the subject of controlling world events with military force. However, the idea of pouring billions of dollars into a program to help people who can't help themselves - such as the war in Iraq by the administration's definition - is a liberal tenet.

Simon De Montfort wrote: So what if you're wrong and Iran does launch a nuclear attack on Israel? What are you going to say?

I'm going to say "I fully support a retaliatory nuclear strike," although it won't be necessary because by the time I get the words out of my mouth, Iran will be a smoking crater. Iran knows this. Not everyone in that country is suicidal and psychotic and if you think they are that stupid, then I suggest you forget everything you think you may know about human nature and start from scratch. You are aware that they are human beings, too, right?

Simon De Montfort wrote: "Well I know Iran called for the destruction of Israel and that they support terrorism against Israel but I wouldn't think they would do that, .... sorry?"

Mutual Assured Destruction. It kept the world intact through forty years of cold war tension. Forty years and not one single nuclear attack... surely you must admit that it was an effective deterrent.

Simon De Montfort wrote: You liberals really need a reality check.

I'm sorry, did I level an attack toward you? If so, I didn't notice. Did I make an attempt to cast your intelligence in a bad light? Are you trying to change my mind by hurling insults at me? Do you think you've scored points in the debate with name-calling? Or do you think you may have simply come off as pompous and arrogant?

Do pompous and arrogant people ever win you over to their way of thinking?

Alula · Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 517

Can you know that they trust their Scientists'?

Zoot · Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 1897

BigOMG wrote: Zoot wrote: Even without having caught quagmired up in Iraq, Iran is a tough call. They have Chinese missiles that fly so fast and low that current US missle-defence systems can't stop them. So the US navy in the Gulf would be f****d, for a start.

Plus, while the US had to invade to get people to support Saddam, people already support the leadership in Iran.

What missiles are you talking about?

The 3M80E Moskit missiles. Sorry, they're not Chinese. They're Russian, but have been bought by both China and Iran.

Quote: You sure seem to be giving them a lot of credit they haven't earned.

http://www.milnet.com/Iranian-Military.html

People don't earn military strength. They purchase it with money.

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 6803 Location: Ohio

Quote:
Whether or not they care if they are f****d is the real question. In a region full of nations who want to see Israel gone, what's to stop him?

You're joking, right?

Israel houses Jerusalem. Nuking Jerusalem would be about the greatest crime you could committ in Islam-plus Israel has its own nukes and would retaliate in kind. They are not as stupid as you make them out to be.

You seem to be missing what motivates these guys-power. They lose their power if they nuke the hell out of Israel.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15867 Location: On Earth

Demonic Spoon wrote: You're joking, right?

Israel houses Jerusalem. Nuking Jerusalem would be about the greatest crime you could committ in Islam-plus Israel has its own nukes and would retaliate in kind. They are not as stupid as you make them out to be.

You seem to be missing what motivates these guys-power. They lose their power if they nuke the hell out of Israel.

Yes, indeed. Not to mention the fact that there are other Islamic sites in Palestine, and that the land itself is just too sacred to be nuked. If Ahmadinejad does nuke it, not only will the Israelis retaliate, but so will every Muslim country, especially Saudi Arabia as it is the most religious and has the strongest army in the Gulf.

Simon De Montfort · Joined: 01 Aug 2004 Posts: 2204 Location: Huntsville, Al

Demonic Spoon wrote: Quote:
Whether or not they care if they are f****d is the real question. In a region full of nations who want to see Israel gone, what's to stop him?

You're joking, right?

Israel houses Jerusalem. Nuking Jerusalem would be about the greatest crime you could committ in Islam-plus Israel has its own nukes and would retaliate in kind. They are not as stupid as you make them out to be.

You seem to be missing what motivates these guys-power. They lose their power if they nuke the hell out of Israel.

What's to stop them fron nuking Tel Aviv? No Mulsim holysite.

You seem to be missing the point the Israel CAN'T afford for you to be wrong on Iran being reasonable. If Iran had been reasonable they wouldn't have pursued nukes to begin with.

Simon De Montfort · Joined: 01 Aug 2004 Posts: 2204 Location: Huntsville, Al

Saracen wrote: Demonic Spoon wrote: You're joking, right?

Israel houses Jerusalem. Nuking Jerusalem would be about the greatest crime you could committ in Islam-plus Israel has its own nukes and would retaliate in kind. They are not as stupid as you make them out to be.

You seem to be missing what motivates these guys-power. They lose their power if they nuke the hell out of Israel.

Yes, indeed. Not to mention the fact that there are other Islamic sites in Palestine, and that the land itself is just too sacred to be nuked. If Ahmadinejad does nuke it, not only will the Israelis retaliate, but so will every Muslim country, especially Saudi Arabia as it is the most religious and has the strongest army in the Gulf.

If Iran nukes Israel muslims will dance in the street.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15867 Location: On Earth

Simon De Montfort wrote: What's to stop them fron nuking Tel Aviv? No Mulsim holysite.

But there still are Muslims there.

Simon De Montfort wrote: You seem to be missing the point the Israel CAN'T afford for you to be wrong on Iran being reasonable. If Iran had been reasonable they wouldn't have pursued nukes to begin with.

So will Iran. They can't trust the U.S. with not invading them after they're done with their ransacking of Iraq.

Simon De Montfort wrote: If Iran nukes Israel muslims will dance in the street.

No, they won't. I won't be happy about it. I have nothing against Jews, but only those who attack and oppress the Palestinians. Neither do most Muslims.

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 6803 Location: Ohio

Quote:
What's to stop them fron nuking Tel Aviv? No Mulsim holysite.

You seem to be missing the point the Israel CAN'T afford for you to be wrong on Iran being reasonable. If Iran had been reasonable they wouldn't have pursued nukes to begin with.

Considering the fact that the US has been extremely aggressive, I would pursue nukes too if I was president of Iran...

Any they KNOW they will die if they nuke Israel. You seem to think these people aren't attached to their power and would give it up willingly.

Simon De Montfort · Joined: 01 Aug 2004 Posts: 2204 Location: Huntsville, Al

Demonic Spoon wrote: Quote:
What's to stop them fron nuking Tel Aviv? No Mulsim holysite.

You seem to be missing the point the Israel CAN'T afford for you to be wrong on Iran being reasonable. If Iran had been reasonable they wouldn't have pursued nukes to begin with.

Considering the fact that the US has been extremely aggressive, I would pursue nukes too if I was president of Iran...

Any they KNOW they will die if they nuke Israel. You seem to think these people aren't attached to their power and would give it up willingly.

They also believe that if they die in Jihad that they go straight to heaven. That has a tendency to lessen one's desire to survive.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15867 Location: On Earth

Simon De Montfort wrote: They also believe that if they die in Jihad that they go straight to heaven. That has a tendency to lessen one's desire to survive.

Who are you talking about? Do you seriously think that we of the Middle East are suicidal fanatical maniacs? We're humans, too, ya know. Also, do you think that the Iranians are also suicidal? And I'm talking about the entire Iranian populace, not just the Iranian leadership.

Simon De Montfort · Joined: 01 Aug 2004 Posts: 2204 Location: Huntsville, Al

Saracen wrote: Simon De Montfort wrote: They also believe that if they die in Jihad that they go straight to heaven. That has a tendency to lessen one's desire to survive.

Who are you talking about? Do you seriously think that we of the Middle East are suicidal fanatical maniacs? We're humans, too, ya know. Also, do you think that the Iranians are also suicidal? And I'm talking about the entire Iranian populace, not just the Iranian leadership.

The danger is that the Iranisn leadership is a pack of suicidal fanatics. And they're the ones that with their finger on the button. And I think they would willingly sacrifice their own people in a nuclear exchange to wipe out Israel. Many innocent people in Iran and Israel will die if Mahmoud Ahmadinejad gets his way.

You do know he called for the "annihilation" of Israel again today?

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15867 Location: On Earth

Simon De Montfort wrote: The danger is that the Iranisn leadership is a pack of suicidal fanatics. And they're the ones that with their finger on the button. And I think they would willingly sacrifice their own people in a nuclear exchange to wipe out Israel. Many innocent people in Iran and Israel will die if Mahmoud Ahmadinejad gets his way.

Get real, Simon. Ahmadinejad may be a nutty, but he's not that stupid to fall for nuclear devastation. They have yet to build nukes and have yet to build as much centrifuges to meet that amount. That being said, I highly doubt that they will use nukes or even build them. Even if they did, they'd use them as deterrents. Also, there are Israeli operatives in Iran. If these operatives are trying to goad Iran into attacking Tel Aviv or some other Israeli town, then don't expect the Iranians to be at fault if these operatives do so.

Simon De Montfort wrote: You do know he called for the "annihilation" of Israel again today?

Yes, I caught that. It's usual, really. He just spews out so much rhetoric and the media magnifies it. I'll bet that they misquoted him on this one as well.