Political Crossfire Forums

[BrandenG]

I go to a United Methodist Church, but I am not sure if everything they teach I agree with. I believe more in an academic approach to Christianity. Study of the bible, and strict adherence. My beliefs would be strict with the bible because I was taught to follow the bible. The one thing I notice a lot in Church is that people only follow half the bible. Sex in marriage, but not for procreation is a sin in my mind because it is an act of lust. However, many people believe that sex within marriage is ok, but to me that seems to go against the Bible because the Bible says lust is a sin. I am not here to argue my beliefs. I just want help in determining which denomination is correct for me (a strict follower of the Bible). I know this probably isn't enough info to do that, but if someone is willing to help educate me on all the denominations that would be great.

[lucidnightmare]

Lust isn't the feeling of being attracted to the opposite sex,you were made that way.Lust is an unlawful desire(like someones wife or something).You are wired to find the opposite sex attractive.

This puritanical streak in Christianity is has more to do with medieval prudishness and the writing of a few theologians than it does the actual bible.

This is from the Song of Solomon,it's damn near pornographic for it's time,it is obvious itis talking about physical attraction.


Quote: Song of Solomon
Chapter 1

Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than wine.
Because of the savour of thy good ointments thy name is as ointment poured forth, therefore do the virgins love thee.
Draw me, we will run after thee: the king hath brought me into his chambers: we will be glad and rejoice in thee, we will remember thy love more than wine: the upright love thee.
I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon.
Look not upon me, because I am black, because the sun hath looked upon me: my mother's children were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept.
Tell me, O thou whom my soul loveth, where thou feedest, where thou makest thy flock to rest at noon: for why should I be as one that turneth aside by the flocks of thy companions?
If thou know not, O thou fairest among women, go thy way forth by the footsteps of the flock, and feed thy kids beside the shepherds' tents.
I have compared thee, O my love, to a company of horses in Pharaoh's chariots.
Thy cheeks are comely with rows of jewels, thy neck with chains of gold.
We will make thee borders of gold with studs of silver.
While the king sitteth at his table, my spikenard sendeth forth the smell thereof.
A bundle of myrrh is my well-beloved unto me; he shall lie all night betwixt my breasts.
My beloved is unto me as a cluster of camphire in the vineyards of Engedi.
Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes.
Behold, thou art fair, my beloved, yea, pleasant: also our bed is green.
The beams of our house are cedar, and our rafters of fir.
Chapter 2
I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys.
As the lily among thorns, so is my love among the daughters.
As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.
He brought me to the banqueting house, and his banner over me was love.
Stay me with flagons, comfort me with apples: for I am sick of love.
His left hand is under my head, and his right hand doth embrace me.
I charge you, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, by the roes, and by the hinds of the field, that ye stir not up, nor awake my love, till he please.
The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.
My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.
My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.
For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;
The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;
The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.
O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.
Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes.
My beloved is mine, and I am his: he feedeth among the lilies.
Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved, and be thou like a roe or a young hart upon the mountains of Bether.

To be fair I have to tell you that i'm not religious in the way you are,so take what I say with that in mind I guess.But I have studied these things.

[BrandenG]

And that's what I want. I don't want someone to flat out tell me my beliefs are wrong, but if they are educated I don't mind their opions. I actually am going to rethink some of my beliefs based on what you said because what you said sounds logical. My main goal is to really figure out what I believe and find a denomination that believes what I believe. I appreciate the input.

[lucidnightmare]

Don't let them guilt trip you.

There are many theologians who will tell you that there is nothing wrong with sex,it's a natural thing.There are verses to support it.

[SilveryMinnow]

BrandenG wrote: I go to a United Methodist Church, but I am not sure if everything they teach I agree with. I believe more in an academic approach to Christianity. Study of the bible, and strict adherence. My beliefs would be strict with the bible because I was taught to follow the bible. The one thing I notice a lot in Church is that people only follow half the bible. Sex in marriage, but not for procreation is a sin in my mind because it is an act of lust. However, many people believe that sex within marriage is ok, but to me that seems to go against the Bible because the Bible says lust is a sin. I am not here to argue my beliefs. I just want help in determining which denomination is correct for me (a strict follower of the Bible). I know this probably isn't enough info to do that, but if someone is willing to help educate me on all the denominations that would be great.

What a man and woman do in the marriage bed is sanctified by the law of the Lord.

[lucidnightmare]

The husband must fulfill his (sexual) duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Stop depriving one another (of sex)." 1 Corinthians 7:3-5


18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love•. Prov. 5

[Snarf]

SilveryMinnow wrote: BrandenG wrote: I go to a United Methodist Church, but I am not sure if everything they teach I agree with. I believe more in an academic approach to Christianity. Study of the bible, and strict adherence. My beliefs would be strict with the bible because I was taught to follow the bible. The one thing I notice a lot in Church is that people only follow half the bible. Sex in marriage, but not for procreation is a sin in my mind because it is an act of lust. However, many people believe that sex within marriage is ok, but to me that seems to go against the Bible because the Bible says lust is a sin. I am not here to argue my beliefs. I just want help in determining which denomination is correct for me (a strict follower of the Bible). I know this probably isn't enough info to do that, but if someone is willing to help educate me on all the denominations that would be great.

What a man and woman do in the marriage bed is sanctified by the law of the Lord.
Including bondage, sex toys, edible underwear, and chicken suits? Kinky Christians in Heaven too? Now that sounds like a bestseller...

[SilveryMinnow]

Quote: 19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love•. Prov. 5

[Snarf]

SilveryMinnow wrote: Quote: 19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love•. Prov. 5
Who knew there'd be leather cat suits, cuffs, and paddles in Heaven? It's starting to sound like a bit more fun after all...

[connermt]

BrandenG wrote: I go to a United Methodist Church, but I am not sure if everything they teach I agree with. I believe more in an academic approach to Christianity. Study of the bible, and strict adherence. My beliefs would be strict with the bible because I was taught to follow the bible. The one thing I notice a lot in Church is that people only follow half the bible. Sex in marriage, but not for procreation is a sin in my mind because it is an act of lust. However, many people believe that sex within marriage is ok, but to me that seems to go against the Bible because the Bible says lust is a sin. I am not here to argue my beliefs. I just want help in determining which denomination is correct for me (a strict follower of the Bible). I know this probably isn't enough info to do that, but if someone is willing to help educate me on all the denominations that would be great.

Have you attended any services from any other churches? If not, maybe you should spend some time & see what you can find. I have found that, on here, there are MANY different views from people - some have different views & are even of the same faith. So it MIGHT not be a 'different church' that would totally help you, but maybe a combo of a different church & a new/different/continual understanding of your bible that might help.(?)
While I can't offer advice on what church to go to, the only thing I would say is be true to yourself & don't get caught up in a specific 'religion' or 'church'. Like has been said previously, don't let anyone pressure you.
Good luck - I hope you find what you are lookign for!!

[John]

BrandenG wrote: I go to a United Methodist Church, but I am not sure if everything they teach I agree with. I believe more in an academic approach to Christianity. Study of the bible, and strict adherence. My beliefs would be strict with the bible because I was taught to follow the bible. The one thing I notice a lot in Church is that people only follow half the bible. Sex in marriage, but not for procreation is a sin in my mind because it is an act of lust. However, many people believe that sex within marriage is ok, but to me that seems to go against the Bible because the Bible says lust is a sin. I am not here to argue my beliefs. I just want help in determining which denomination is correct for me (a strict follower of the Bible). I know this probably isn't enough info to do that, but if someone is willing to help educate me on all the denominations that would be great.

Why don't you go check this place out?

http://ccwcdallas.org/believe.htm

[John]

BrandenG wrote: And that's what I want. I don't want someone to flat out tell me my beliefs are wrong, but if they are educated I don't mind their opions. I actually am going to rethink some of my beliefs based on what you said because what you said sounds logical. My main goal is to really figure out what I believe and find a denomination that believes what I believe. I appreciate the input.



1 Corinthians 7

2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

3 The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband.

4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.

5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

[connermt]

John wrote: BrandenG wrote: And that's what I want. I don't want someone to flat out tell me my beliefs are wrong, but if they are educated I don't mind their opions. I actually am going to rethink some of my beliefs based on what you said because what you said sounds logical. My main goal is to really figure out what I believe and find a denomination that believes what I believe. I appreciate the input.



1 Corinthians 7

2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

3 The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband.

4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.

5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

I have always wondered about this verse: But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.
Doesn't that appear to be saying to get married to bypass any immoral acts? That doesn't seem to be a good reason to get married.
Sorry to speak off topic

[John]

Quote: I have always wondered about this verse: But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.
Doesn't that appear to be saying to get married to bypass any immoral acts? That doesn't seem to be a good reason to get married.

Some people really need to have sex....to get married and have sex. You need to remember that Paul is talking to Christian...as a Christian, the Lord is first in your life and you should live it to serve Him. What ever that may be. I guess if you're gonna be a hard core missionary...it's gonna be easier if you're not married.

[connermt]

John wrote: Quote: I have always wondered about this verse: But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.
Doesn't that appear to be saying to get married to bypass any immoral acts? That doesn't seem to be a good reason to get married.

Some people really need to have sex....to get married and have sex. You need to remember that Paul is talking to Christian...as a Christian, the Lord is first in your life and you should live it to serve Him. What ever that may be. I guess if you're gonna be a hard core missionary...it's gonna be easier if you're not married.

I see what you mean but it (the verse) still seems very convoluted & illogical

[SilveryMinnow]

Snarf wrote: SilveryMinnow wrote: Quote: 19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love•. Prov. 5
Who knew there'd be leather cat suits, cuffs, and paddles in Heaven? It's starting to sound like a bit more fun after all...

Sex is irrevelant in Heaven. The love shared there is greater than any pleasure here on Earth.

[pharaoh]

SilveryMinnow wrote: Snarf wrote: SilveryMinnow wrote: Quote: 19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love•. Prov. 5
Who knew there'd be leather cat suits, cuffs, and paddles in Heaven? It's starting to sound like a bit more fun after all...

Sex is irrevelant in Heaven. The love shared there is greater than any pleasure here on Earth.

Does that mean there wont be sex in heaven?

[garyd]

Okay for openers any church that teaches that anything you do has anything to do with getting you saved has one foot in the metaphysical grave.

Salvation is by grace and grace alone. Grace is God placing faith in an unbelieving human heart that said Human can believe God and like Abraham all those centuries ago be accounted as righteous before God.

Your actions are at best an indication of your status as a saved sinner.

Look at the story of the Sheep and the goats in Matthew 25. The goats those doomed to hell had works in plenty and apparently the resumes to prove it. They new every good deed they'd ever done. Why? Because it is not natural to them because it is out of character for them. They didn't do those things to glorify God they did them to glorify themselves and that is why hell is there lot. On the other hand the sheep don't recall having done anything and yet God credits them with having done everything. How can this be? They have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. These things have become as natural to them as breathing and as unremarkable.

Pietism and legalism won't get you into heaven and no amount of good deeds will offset even the least of sins for they cannot change the fact that you are guilty of those wrongs. Good deeds cannot are not simple cannon shot to breach heavens gate were it so give me the relative peace of hell than an eternity with braggarts patting themselves on the back and crying look at me, look what I did.

[John]

garyd wrote: Okay for openers any church that teaches that anything you do has anything to do with getting you saved has one foot in the metaphysical grave.

Salvation is by grace and grace alone. Grace is God placing faith in an unbelieving human heart that said Human can believe God and like Abraham all those centuries ago be accounted as righteous before God.

Your actions are at best an indication of your status as a saved sinner.

Look at the story of the Sheep and the goats in Matthew 25. The goats those doomed to hell had works in plenty and apparently the resumes to prove it. They new every good deed they'd ever done. Why? Because it is not natural to them because it is out of character for them. They didn't do those things to glorify God they did them to glorify themselves and that is why hell is there lot. On the other hand the sheep don't recall having done anything and yet God credits them with having done everything. How can this be? They have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. These things have become as natural to them as breathing and as unremarkable.

Pietism and legalism won't get you into heaven and no amount of good deeds will offset even the least of sins for they cannot change the fact that you are guilty of those wrongs. Good deeds cannot are not simple cannon shot to breach heavens gate were it so give me the relative peace of hell than an eternity with braggarts patting themselves on the back and crying look at me, look what I did.

Great post! :-D

[Plodder]

When a mortal sin is commited it kills what ever graces you have and if you die ina state of mortal sin you will goto hell.