Political Crossfire Forums

[John]

Daniel 9
24 "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

25 "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."


A biblical "week" = 7 years

Genesis 29:
27 "Complete the week of this one, and we will give you the other also for the service which you shall serve with me for another seven years."
28 Jacob did so and completed her week, and he gave him his daughter Rachel as his wife.
29 Laban also gave his maid Bilhah to his daughter Rachel as her maid.
30 So Jacob went in to Rachel also, and indeed he loved Rachel more than Leah, and he served with Laban for another seven years.

Now check this out!

The issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem is recorded in Nehemiah chapter 2. The accepted date for this event is March 14, 445 BC

It took 49 years to restore Jerusalem = 7 weeks

7 weeks + 62 weeks = 69 weeks

69 weeks = 483 years

Now here's the tricky part...we have to remember that the Jews used a 360 day year*. So.
http://webexhibits.org/calendars/calendar-ancient.html
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/360vs365.html


483 years = 173,880 days

Now start at March 14, 445 BC and add 173,880 days and you come up with....

483 X 5 = 2415 extra days

2415 / 360 = 6.7 extra years

483 – 6.7 = 476.3

476.7 – 444.3 = 32.4

April 6, 32 AD (Palm Sunday)


• 360 calendar during this time is debatable but even if we use the 354 day calendar it still puts the Messiah’s appearance around the same time give or take a few years. Since we really can’t claim to know exact dates anyway this detail is irrelevant.


What happened on April 6, 32 AD (Palm Sunday)????




Luke 19
28 After Jesus had said this, he went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem. 29 As he approached Bethphage and Bethany at the hill called the Mount of Olives, he sent two of his disciples, saying to them, 30 "Go to the village ahead of you, and as you enter it, you will find a colt tied there, which no one has ever ridden. Untie it and bring it here. 31 If anyone asks you, 'Why are you untying it?' tell him, 'The Lord needs it.' "

32 Those who were sent ahead went and found it just as he had told them. 33As they were untying the colt, its owners asked them, "Why are you untying the colt?"

34 They replied, "The Lord needs it."

35 They brought it to Jesus, threw their cloaks on the colt and put Jesus on it. 36As he went along, people spread their cloaks on the road.

37 When he came near the place where the road goes down the Mount of Olives, the whole crowd of disciples began joyfully to praise God in loud voices for all the miracles they had seen:
38 "Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord!"
"Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!"

39Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, "Teacher, rebuke your disciples!"

"I tell you," he replied, "if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out."

As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."

[connermt]

John wrote: Daniel 9
24 "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

25 "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."


A biblical "week" = 7 years

Genesis 29:
27 "Complete the week of this one, and we will give you the other also for the service which you shall serve with me for another seven years."
28 Jacob did so and completed her week, and he gave him his daughter Rachel as his wife.
29 Laban also gave his maid Bilhah to his daughter Rachel as her maid.
30 So Jacob went in to Rachel also, and indeed he loved Rachel more than Leah, and he served with Laban for another seven years.

Now check this out!

The issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem is recorded in Nehemiah chapter 2. The accepted date for this event is March 14, 445 BC

It took 49 years to restore Jerusalem = 7 weeks

7 weeks + 62 weeks = 69 weeks

69 weeks = 483 years

Now here's the tricky part...we have to remember that the Jews used a 360 day year*. So.
http://webexhibits.org/calendars/calendar-ancient.html
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/360vs365.html


483 years = 173,880 days

Now start at March 14, 445 BC and add 173,880 days and you come up with....

483 X 5 = 2415 extra days

2415 / 360 = 6.7 extra years

483 – 6.7 = 476.3

476.7 – 444.3 = 32.4

April 6, 32 AD (Palm Sunday)


• 360 calendar during this time is debatable but even if we use the 354 day calendar it still puts the Messiah’s appearance around the same time give or take a few years. Since we really can’t claim to know exact dates anyway this detail is irrelevant.


What happened on April 6, 32 AD (Palm Sunday)????




Luke 19
28 After Jesus had said this, he went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem. 29 As he approached Bethphage and Bethany at the hill called the Mount of Olives, he sent two of his disciples, saying to them, 30 "Go to the village ahead of you, and as you enter it, you will find a colt tied there, which no one has ever ridden. Untie it and bring it here. 31 If anyone asks you, 'Why are you untying it?' tell him, 'The Lord needs it.' "

32 Those who were sent ahead went and found it just as he had told them. 33As they were untying the colt, its owners asked them, "Why are you untying the colt?"

34 They replied, "The Lord needs it."

35 They brought it to Jesus, threw their cloaks on the colt and put Jesus on it. 36As he went along, people spread their cloaks on the road.

37 When he came near the place where the road goes down the Mount of Olives, the whole crowd of disciples began joyfully to praise God in loud voices for all the miracles they had seen:
38 "Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord!"
"Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!"

39Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, "Teacher, rebuke your disciples!"

"I tell you," he replied, "if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out."

As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."

Wasn't there a Jewish language/code that dealt with numbers & letter's number equivalents?
Doesn't the Bible have events that revolve around certain numbers or groups of numbers?
I have heard similiar things like this in passing before. :!?:

[Duchifas]

John wrote: Since we really can’t claim to know exact dates anyway...

Then what exactly is the point of this thread?


In any case, biblical "weeks" aside for a moment....

How does .4 come out to April 6? Especially, if you start counting from March?

And where did 444.3 come from? Did you sub that for 445? Why .3?

And lastly, how did 476.3 become 476.7?

Quote: 483 – 6.7 = 476.3

476.7 – 444.3 = 32.4

[John]

Duchifas wrote: John wrote: Since we really can’t claim to know exact dates anyway...

Then what exactly is the point of this thread?


In any case, biblical "weeks" aside for a moment....

How does .4 come out to April 6? Especially, if you start counting from March?

And where did 444.3 come from? Did you sub that for 445? Why .3?

And lastly, how did 476.3 become 476.7?

Quote: 483 – 6.7 = 476.3

476.7 – 444.3 = 32.4

Because you have to work it backwards when dealing with BC. Come on...you're pretty smart...get out your calculator and work it out.

[John]

.


Click here for detailed explaination

[Duchifas]

John wrote: Duchifas wrote: John wrote: Since we really can’t claim to know exact dates anyway...

Then what exactly is the point of this thread?


In any case, biblical "weeks" aside for a moment....

How does .4 come out to April 6? Especially, if you start counting from March?

And where did 444.3 come from? Did you sub that for 445? Why .3?

And lastly, how did 476.3 become 476.7?

Quote: 483 – 6.7 = 476.3

476.7 – 444.3 = 32.4

Because you have to work it backwards when dealing with BC. Come on...you're pretty smart...get out your calculator and work it out.

Yes, I realize you did it backwards. That doesn't explain how March 14 becomes a .3 (in 444.3).

And how did 476.3 become 476.7 in your calculations?

And how does the .4 (in 32.4) translate into April 6?

[John]

Quote: And how did 476.3 become 476.7 in your calculations?

Think about it. :-D

[Duchifas]

John wrote: Quote: And how did 476.3 become 476.7 in your calculations?

Think about it. :-D

I did think about it. And I think that you either made a careless error, or doctored up the numbers.

So I suggest that you go pray about it, and the Lord will round up your numbers correctly for you. +p

[John]

.



Click here for another detailed explanation

[psholtz]

John wrote: Quote: And how did 476.3 become 476.7 in your calculations?

Think about it. :-D
What the hell kind of answer is that?

I thought I schooled you sufficiently in science already this morning.. :lol:

[John]

Duchifas wrote: John wrote: Quote: And how did 476.3 become 476.7 in your calculations?

Think about it. :-D

I did think about it. And I think that you either made a careless error, or doctored up the numbers.

So I suggest that you go pray about it, and the Lord will round up your numbers correctly for you. +p

Think about it some more...because it's right.

Hint: it has to due with it being BC and where you start counting.

[Duchifas]

John wrote: Duchifas wrote: John wrote: Quote: And how did 476.3 become 476.7 in your calculations?

Think about it. :-D

I did think about it. And I think that you either made a careless error, or doctored up the numbers.

So I suggest that you go pray about it, and the Lord will round up your numbers correctly for you. +p

Think about it some more...because it's right.

If it is right, then you should have no problem whatsoever explaining it conherenty. Unfortunately, you refuse to. This is not some deep doctrine, that can't be explained in one post, this is simple math. You persistent evasiveness leads me to believe that it was not a mere careless error, but that you intentionally doctored up the numbers...

If you made a careless error, then you should have no problem saying, sorry I goofed, my bad.

If your numbers are right, you should have no problem explaining it.

But if you intentionally doctored them up, then you would be doing exactly what you are doing now - refusing to give an explanation and evading.

Think about THAT, John.

Quote: Hint: it has to due with it being BC and where you start counting.

Thanks.

[connermt]

psholtz wrote: John wrote: Quote: And how did 476.3 become 476.7 in your calculations?

Think about it. :-D
What the hell kind of answer is that?

I thought I schooled you sufficiently in science already this morning.. :lol:

Evidently some people get off trying to sound like they know more than they do & don't like to explain themselves - seems to be an issue with some people on here...... :roll:

[John]

connermt wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: Quote: And how did 476.3 become 476.7 in your calculations?

Think about it. :-D
What the hell kind of answer is that?

I thought I schooled you sufficiently in science already this morning.. :lol:

Evidently some people get off trying to sound like they know more than they do & don't like to explain themselves - seems to be an issue with some people on here...... :roll:

Or they don't feel like arguing all day about the moon with psholtz. :lol:

Besides...I provided two links that give extremly detailed explanations about the issue of this thread..

[connermt]

John wrote: connermt wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: Quote: And how did 476.3 become 476.7 in your calculations?

Think about it. :-D
What the hell kind of answer is that?

I thought I schooled you sufficiently in science already this morning.. :lol:

Evidently some people get off trying to sound like they know more than they do & don't like to explain themselves - seems to be an issue with some people on here...... :roll:

Or they don't feel like arguing all day about the moon with psholtz. :lol:

Besides...I provided two links that give extremly detailed explanations about the issue of this thread..

LINKS LINKS LINKS
Anyone can find a link & post it. Good word - I could make my own webpage under an assumed name & post crap that appears as fact & point to that as fact.
How about 'growing some', stepping up to the plate & actually telling people what you believe instead of pointing to what others believe? That would be much more beneficial to those of us who really want to know what YOU {or anyone in particular}think{s}.

[VBach37]

John wrote: Think about it. Because it's right. Becaus I said so, so it must be right.

Wow, with a debate strategy like that, you could run for president!

[connermt]

soldierofchrist wrote: connermt wrote: John wrote: connermt wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: Quote: And how did 476.3 become 476.7 in your calculations?

Think about it. :-D
What the hell kind of answer is that?

I thought I schooled you sufficiently in science already this morning.. :lol:

Evidently some people get off trying to sound like they know more than they do & don't like to explain themselves - seems to be an issue with some people on here...... :roll:

Or they don't feel like arguing all day about the moon with psholtz. :lol:

Besides...I provided two links that give extremly detailed explanations about the issue of this thread..

LINKS LINKS LINKS
Anyone can find a link & post it. Good word - I could make my own webpage under an assumed name & post crap that appears as fact & point to that as fact.
How about 'growing some', stepping up to the plate & actually telling people what you believe instead of pointing to what others believe? That would be much more beneficial to those of us who really want to know what YOU {or anyone in particular}think{s}.
I don't even have to look at your join date to know you haven't been around here long. :lol: And clearly you haven't had much exposure to John's posts either. Because if you have, you'd know John pulls no punches, and holds nothing back, he has, does, and will continue to post precisely what he believes. Sure he does quote, and cite a lot of links, but he also posts many opinions and beliefs of his own, and often times the links are just secondary re-enforcers. I don't always agree with what he has to say, but I respect that he doesn't hold back and gives honest, forthright answers.

BRING IT - I would LOVE to see these posts, as I am sure others would as well. From what I have seen, it is "Look at this & it will explain it" BS. That, to me, shows me someone who is either 1) not sure of themself &/or 2) doesn't have any real beliefs that are their own & likes to appear to be more than they are.
John may be a perfectly wonderful person to be around & it is almost impossible to tell that from anything online. However, he needs to know that his appearance on here is of a 'blow hard' to many people.
I am not, nor will I ever degrade a person's belief. I respect everyone's beliefs, even though I may not agree with them.
I challenge John (& others - you know who you are) to start telling us what he believes about topics he replies to. I would honestly like to know. Maybe he can say something that I have not thought of & would allow me to see something differently. I would LOVE that - I am always looking to learn new things.
Like I said: BRING IT

[thefranzkafkafront]

The Possibiliy that the N.T authors fiddled with the events to fit the dates, or the dates to fit the events can never be discounted.

There is some quite clear addition on the paricopae in all of the gospels.

[John]

Duchifas wrote: John wrote: Since we really can’t claim to know exact dates anyway...

Then what exactly is the point of this thread?



Well according the book of Daniel, we are given a specific time for the Messiah to appear. It doesn't matter if you use a 360 day or 365 day year, it will still end up being around the same time. That time so happens to be around (and I believe exactly) the time of Yeshua the Nazarene, who was "cut off” forty years before the Second Temple was destroyed.

Now if Jesus Christ isn't the Messiah? Who is? Who during that small time frame fits the bill?

Another point that I think most people overlook but is actually pretty profound if you think about it is that Messiah is prophesied to be accepted by the Gentile nations. It's amazing in it self that the entire world knows about and every Gentile nation has a remnant that has accepted Jesus Christ as King of the Universe. What are the odds that the world’s pagan peoples would be basing their lives off the scriptures of the One true God of Israel? Not to mention that the Jews themselves have a strong remnant who accept Yeshua as their King.

Haven't you learned anything from your study of Torah? Do you really think HaShem is going to send the Messiah and force people to believe against their will? That a man is going to just show people the knowledge of God without it being through Faith?

Don't you know that the heart must be transformed before God's Law can be understood?


God's plan makes sense. You see, the Messiah came first to atone for the sin of the world...for He Himself would provide the Lamb. God is not going to let anyone other than Himself be our Salvation, because anything less wouldn't be Holy. All of mankind since Adam to today has the sacrifice of Messiah to put their Faith in and have their hearts transformed through Faith (Adam put His Faith in what the coming Messiah would do...and we in the Messiah who came did). Like the brazen snake that Moses placed on a pole to heal the people. It ALL points at Messiah. What do you think all those sacrificed animals points to? To the REAL Lamb of God who would solve the problem.

Now that being said. The Messiah will return and set up His Kingdom. But it will be the people who have accepted His sacrifice through FAITH that will be part of His Kingdom. From Abraham to cap'n queasy…ALL who placed their Faith in GOD’S Salvation.

[JRM4833]

Please do not alter the words of others. It is not fair to those just skimming threads and deciding where they stand on issues. I know it can seem harmless in the debate, but it's not so harmless when your words are being misconstrued. Thanks in advance. :-D