Political Crossfire Forums

[connermt]

Growing up, going to church & being a Christian seemed pretty simple. And admittedly I followed the teachings blindly, even when I had questions that no one could sufficiently answer. In addition, I never researched anything about my religion (or any religion). As I aged, I noticed there was A LOT of info that I have never heard of before. I see a lot of postings on here by certain people using words & names that I have never heard of, ideas that seem foreign to me & all the time speaking as if this information is common place in Christianity.
So it makes me wonder: Is christianity really this complex? I can guarantee that many 'average Joe' christians don't know of half the stuff I see & have heard of in the past couple years. If so, how can everyone be held to the same standard?
That then makes me ask: Are people making Christianity this complicated? If so, why? Does it make these people feel superior or smarter? Does it make them feel justified from {whatever}?

Any ideas?

[Todd D.]

Nothing worth having is easy, nor is it simple.

[connermt]

Todd D. wrote: Nothing worth having is easy, nor is it simple.

That response seems a little 'canned'.

[Todd D.]

Not really, it just sums it up to me. Think about every relationship you've ever been in, was it always roses and hugs? Mine certainly aren't. You go through a lot to try and find the truth of what your relationship is with someone else, to find the very center of what they are and how they relate, and that's just a human relationship that is in it's infancy. With Christianity, you have a faith that is 2,000 years old, which people consider much closer to their hearts than a girlfriend, and have been searching since the very beginning to find the central truths of that faith. Like any family, there are going to be times when people are at each others throats (ever fight with your brother or sister?), and there will be times when you agree.

The point is that when something is so important to someone, they are willing to go through a lot more to find the truth or to keep their relationship. If it was easy, it would likewise be easily discardable.

[John]

You're complicating something that should be easy.

You're trying to have a RELIGION instead of a RELATIONSHIP.




Just relax and thank the Lord for what He did for you. Now that you know that the Lord loves you so much...quit worrying about it. Just trust in Him......just relax and believe and let the Lord guide you.

The truth is that most people miss the WHOLE point of Christianity because they want it to be hard. Just ask God to change your heart and the complexity will melt away.

Being a Christian is NOT complex….explaining that it isn’t complex to the blind is the complex part. Because part of our fallen nature is to not trust God and want to earn our Salvation.

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: So it makes me wonder: Is christianity really this complex? I can guarantee that many 'average Joe' christians don't know of half the stuff I see & have heard of in the past couple years. If so, how can everyone be held to the same standard?

Questions of this sort can often be answered in a satisfactory manner by the book of Romans. I like to think of it as a "manual" for following Y'shua's teachings. Here's something to consider regarding your question.
Quote: Romans 14:1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. 2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. 3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

Here we find the basis for faith.

[perdidochas]

connermt wrote: Growing up, going to church & being a Christian seemed pretty simple. And admittedly I followed the teachings blindly, even when I had questions that no one could sufficiently answer. In addition, I never researched anything about my religion (or any religion). As I aged, I noticed there was A LOT of info that I have never heard of before. I see a lot of postings on here by certain people using words & names that I have never heard of, ideas that seem foreign to me & all the time speaking as if this information is common place in Christianity.
So it makes me wonder: Is christianity really this complex? I can guarantee that many 'average Joe' christians don't know of half the stuff I see & have heard of in the past couple years. If so, how can everyone be held to the same standard?
That then makes me ask: Are people making Christianity this complicated? If so, why? Does it make these people feel superior or smarter? Does it make them feel justified from {whatever}?

Any ideas?

I don't see what's complicated, and I'm Catholic, supposedly the most complicated version of Christianity. What specifically makes you think things are complicated? I agree that theology is complicated, but it's not a necessity. Faith is the necessity.

[connermt]

Todd D. wrote: Not really, it just sums it up to me. Think about every relationship you've ever been in, was it always roses and hugs? Mine certainly aren't. You go through a lot to try and find the truth of what your relationship is with someone else, to find the very center of what they are and how they relate, and that's just a human relationship that is in it's infancy. With Christianity, you have a faith that is 2,000 years old, which people consider much closer to their hearts than a girlfriend, and have been searching since the very beginning to find the central truths of that faith. Like any family, there are going to be times when people are at each others throats (ever fight with your brother or sister?), and there will be times when you agree.

The point is that when something is so important to someone, they are willing to go through a lot more to find the truth or to keep their relationship. If it was easy, it would likewise be easily discardable.

Being easy isn't the issue. The issue to me is that there seems to be people, places, dates, events beliefs that are rather matter-of-fact to some people that is the basis of the faith. Not everyone who shares this faith is familiar with some or all of these people, places, dates, events, beliefs, etc. So are these things really relevant, or are they just 'filler'?
It seems to me that the christian faith looks to be very complicated. If all these people, places, dates, events, beliefs are TRUE to christianity, why aren't they more commonly know?

[connermt]

John wrote: You're complicating something that should be easy.

You're trying to have a RELIGION instead of a RELATIONSHIP.




Just relax and thank the Lord for what He did for you. Now that you know that the Lord loves you so much...quit worrying about it. Just trust in Him......just relax and believe and let the Lord guide you.

The truth is that most people miss the WHOLE point of Christianity because they want it to be hard. Just ask God to change your heart and the complexity will melt away.

Being a Christian is NOT complex….explaining that it isn’t complex to the blind is the complex part. Because part of our fallen nature is to not trust God and want to earn our Salvation.

Quote: You're trying to have a RELIGION instead of a RELATIONSHIP. Quite the opposite actually. My belief is to have a personal relationship with God. By doing so, He will show me what to do when & how. But I still wonder if there is something that I am missing, rather it be important to me personally or not. I guess I am just very curious in nature & want to knwo as much as I can & learn as much as I can.

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: Quite the opposite actually. My belief is to have a personal relationship with God. By doing so, He will show me what to do when & how.

That's the right thing. He will.

[Todd D.]

connermt wrote: Todd D. wrote: Not really, it just sums it up to me. Think about every relationship you've ever been in, was it always roses and hugs? Mine certainly aren't. You go through a lot to try and find the truth of what your relationship is with someone else, to find the very center of what they are and how they relate, and that's just a human relationship that is in it's infancy. With Christianity, you have a faith that is 2,000 years old, which people consider much closer to their hearts than a girlfriend, and have been searching since the very beginning to find the central truths of that faith. Like any family, there are going to be times when people are at each others throats (ever fight with your brother or sister?), and there will be times when you agree.

The point is that when something is so important to someone, they are willing to go through a lot more to find the truth or to keep their relationship. If it was easy, it would likewise be easily discardable.

Being easy isn't the issue. The issue to me is that there seems to be people, places, dates, events beliefs that are rather matter-of-fact to some people that is the basis of the faith. Not everyone who shares this faith is familiar with some or all of these people, places, dates, events, beliefs, etc. So are these things really relevant, or are they just 'filler'?
It seems to me that the christian faith looks to be very complicated. If all these people, places, dates, events, beliefs are TRUE to christianity, why aren't they more commonly know?
Alright, think about it this way. When you meet a girl that you are crazy about, do you just keep going out to the movies, or do you want to know more about her? What she likes, what she dislikes, where she's come from, what she wants to do, all that stuff? I certainly do. Why? Because I think the relationship is worth keeping and want to know as much as I can about that person in order to maintain it. Is it "necessary"? Do I "have to"? Irrelevant. I WANT to. That takes effort, patience, and it won't necessarily be easy. That's just a human relationship! Imagine the effort, patience, trust, search that would then go in to your quest for knowledge about someone who is supposed to be your God!

[connermt]

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: So it makes me wonder: Is christianity really this complex? I can guarantee that many 'average Joe' christians don't know of half the stuff I see & have heard of in the past couple years. If so, how can everyone be held to the same standard?

Questions of this sort can often be answered in a satisfactory manner by the book of Romans. I like to think of it as a "manual" for following Y'shua's teachings. Here's something to consider regarding your question.
Quote: Romans 14:1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. 2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. 3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

Here we find the basis for faith.

I am glad you responded Cap'n. You are one of the people that made me put this post up (& I don't mean that in a negative way). Example: Many of your posts, while I don't agree with (as I am sure you know :wink: ) contain a lot of info that I have never heard of nor that my church has ever taught. So it makes me wonder if there is something I should be studying more or reading more of so that I could get a better understanding.
Some of what you post out there I read & say"What?!!? Where did that come from?" And it makes me wonder if I overlooked something or if I should be doing something differently.
Does that make sense?

[connermt]

perdidochas wrote: connermt wrote: Growing up, going to church & being a Christian seemed pretty simple. And admittedly I followed the teachings blindly, even when I had questions that no one could sufficiently answer. In addition, I never researched anything about my religion (or any religion). As I aged, I noticed there was A LOT of info that I have never heard of before. I see a lot of postings on here by certain people using words & names that I have never heard of, ideas that seem foreign to me & all the time speaking as if this information is common place in Christianity.
So it makes me wonder: Is christianity really this complex? I can guarantee that many 'average Joe' christians don't know of half the stuff I see & have heard of in the past couple years. If so, how can everyone be held to the same standard?
That then makes me ask: Are people making Christianity this complicated? If so, why? Does it make these people feel superior or smarter? Does it make them feel justified from {whatever}?

Any ideas?

I don't see what's complicated, and I'm Catholic, supposedly the most complicated version of Christianity. What specifically makes you think things are complicated? I agree that theology is complicated, but it's not a necessity. Faith is the necessity.
I agree - faith is necessary. But for me, it is hard to have faith when I see or hear things that I have never heard of (ideas, people that apparently important in the Bible or that seem important, etc).
Maybe I should re-phrase my issue: I see many things of what appears to be biblical importance that I am not aware of that makes me wonder if I am missing something.

[perdidochas]

connermt wrote: perdidochas wrote: connermt wrote: Growing up, going to church & being a Christian seemed pretty simple. And admittedly I followed the teachings blindly, even when I had questions that no one could sufficiently answer. In addition, I never researched anything about my religion (or any religion). As I aged, I noticed there was A LOT of info that I have never heard of before. I see a lot of postings on here by certain people using words & names that I have never heard of, ideas that seem foreign to me & all the time speaking as if this information is common place in Christianity.
So it makes me wonder: Is christianity really this complex? I can guarantee that many 'average Joe' christians don't know of half the stuff I see & have heard of in the past couple years. If so, how can everyone be held to the same standard?
That then makes me ask: Are people making Christianity this complicated? If so, why? Does it make these people feel superior or smarter? Does it make them feel justified from {whatever}?

Any ideas?

I don't see what's complicated, and I'm Catholic, supposedly the most complicated version of Christianity. What specifically makes you think things are complicated? I agree that theology is complicated, but it's not a necessity. Faith is the necessity.
I agree - faith is necessary. But for me, it is hard to have faith when I see or hear things that I have never heard of (ideas, people that apparently important in the Bible or that seem important, etc).
Maybe I should re-phrase my issue: I see many things of what appears to be biblical importance that I am not aware of that makes me wonder if I am missing something.

That's the advantage of organized religion, IMHO. They take the worry out of "Am I missing something?" If you trust the leaders of your denomination, you don't have to worry about that.

[connermt]

perdidochas wrote: connermt wrote: perdidochas wrote: connermt wrote: Growing up, going to church & being a Christian seemed pretty simple. And admittedly I followed the teachings blindly, even when I had questions that no one could sufficiently answer. In addition, I never researched anything about my religion (or any religion). As I aged, I noticed there was A LOT of info that I have never heard of before. I see a lot of postings on here by certain people using words & names that I have never heard of, ideas that seem foreign to me & all the time speaking as if this information is common place in Christianity.
So it makes me wonder: Is christianity really this complex? I can guarantee that many 'average Joe' christians don't know of half the stuff I see & have heard of in the past couple years. If so, how can everyone be held to the same standard?
That then makes me ask: Are people making Christianity this complicated? If so, why? Does it make these people feel superior or smarter? Does it make them feel justified from {whatever}?

Any ideas?

I don't see what's complicated, and I'm Catholic, supposedly the most complicated version of Christianity. What specifically makes you think things are complicated? I agree that theology is complicated, but it's not a necessity. Faith is the necessity.
I agree - faith is necessary. But for me, it is hard to have faith when I see or hear things that I have never heard of (ideas, people that apparently important in the Bible or that seem important, etc).
Maybe I should re-phrase my issue: I see many things of what appears to be biblical importance that I am not aware of that makes me wonder if I am missing something.

That's the advantage of organized religion, IMHO. They take the worry out of "Am I missing something?" If you trust the leaders of your denomination, you don't have to worry about that.

I trust that my personal leaders are doing the best with what they have, but that still doesn't mean they have everything. I guess it is my nature to always look for proof & clarity no matter if it is available or not. :cry:

[perdidochas]

connermt wrote: perdidochas wrote: connermt wrote: perdidochas wrote: connermt wrote: Growing up, going to church & being a Christian seemed pretty simple. And admittedly I followed the teachings blindly, even when I had questions that no one could sufficiently answer. In addition, I never researched anything about my religion (or any religion). As I aged, I noticed there was A LOT of info that I have never heard of before. I see a lot of postings on here by certain people using words & names that I have never heard of, ideas that seem foreign to me & all the time speaking as if this information is common place in Christianity.
So it makes me wonder: Is christianity really this complex? I can guarantee that many 'average Joe' christians don't know of half the stuff I see & have heard of in the past couple years. If so, how can everyone be held to the same standard?
That then makes me ask: Are people making Christianity this complicated? If so, why? Does it make these people feel superior or smarter? Does it make them feel justified from {whatever}?

Any ideas?

I don't see what's complicated, and I'm Catholic, supposedly the most complicated version of Christianity. What specifically makes you think things are complicated? I agree that theology is complicated, but it's not a necessity. Faith is the necessity.
I agree - faith is necessary. But for me, it is hard to have faith when I see or hear things that I have never heard of (ideas, people that apparently important in the Bible or that seem important, etc).
Maybe I should re-phrase my issue: I see many things of what appears to be biblical importance that I am not aware of that makes me wonder if I am missing something.

That's the advantage of organized religion, IMHO. They take the worry out of "Am I missing something?" If you trust the leaders of your denomination, you don't have to worry about that.

I trust that my personal leaders are doing the best with what they have, but that still doesn't mean they have everything. I guess it is my nature to always look for proof & clarity no matter if it is available or not. :cry:

Part of it is also age. When younger, I questioned things more. In the end, though, I've come to the conclusion that I can trust my religious leaders. Everything I've examined has led me to the conclusion that they are correct. I question things less now, because of that.

[connermt]

perdidochas wrote: connermt wrote: perdidochas wrote: connermt wrote: perdidochas wrote: connermt wrote: Growing up, going to church & being a Christian seemed pretty simple. And admittedly I followed the teachings blindly, even when I had questions that no one could sufficiently answer. In addition, I never researched anything about my religion (or any religion). As I aged, I noticed there was A LOT of info that I have never heard of before. I see a lot of postings on here by certain people using words & names that I have never heard of, ideas that seem foreign to me & all the time speaking as if this information is common place in Christianity.
So it makes me wonder: Is christianity really this complex? I can guarantee that many 'average Joe' christians don't know of half the stuff I see & have heard of in the past couple years. If so, how can everyone be held to the same standard?
That then makes me ask: Are people making Christianity this complicated? If so, why? Does it make these people feel superior or smarter? Does it make them feel justified from {whatever}?

Any ideas?

I don't see what's complicated, and I'm Catholic, supposedly the most complicated version of Christianity. What specifically makes you think things are complicated? I agree that theology is complicated, but it's not a necessity. Faith is the necessity.
I agree - faith is necessary. But for me, it is hard to have faith when I see or hear things that I have never heard of (ideas, people that apparently important in the Bible or that seem important, etc).
Maybe I should re-phrase my issue: I see many things of what appears to be biblical importance that I am not aware of that makes me wonder if I am missing something.

That's the advantage of organized religion, IMHO. They take the worry out of "Am I missing something?" If you trust the leaders of your denomination, you don't have to worry about that.

I trust that my personal leaders are doing the best with what they have, but that still doesn't mean they have everything. I guess it is my nature to always look for proof & clarity no matter if it is available or not. :cry:

Part of it is also age. When younger, I questioned things more. In the end, though, I've come to the conclusion that I can trust my religious leaders. Everything I've examined has led me to the conclusion that they are correct. I question things less now, because of that.

That's interesting because I worked the exact opposite. When I was younger I took their word for it (well more so than I do now). Now I am starting to question things more.

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: That's the advantage of organized religion, IMHO. They take the worry out of "Am I missing something?" If you trust the leaders of your denomination, you don't have to worry about that.

That's not an advantage it's a disadvantage. You better be worrying if you missed something.

This is causing you to lose your fear of God. That cannot be right.

Quote: De 8:6 -
"Therefore, you shall keep the commandments of the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to fear Him.

Moses didn't make the Israelites exist in a position where they had nothing to worry about and the Church does not put you in this position, now.

I'm just asking you to think about it. Think.

[cap'n queasy]

connermt wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: So it makes me wonder: Is christianity really this complex? I can guarantee that many 'average Joe' christians don't know of half the stuff I see & have heard of in the past couple years. If so, how can everyone be held to the same standard?

Questions of this sort can often be answered in a satisfactory manner by the book of Romans. I like to think of it as a "manual" for following Y'shua's teachings. Here's something to consider regarding your question.
Quote: Romans 14:1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. 2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. 3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

Here we find the basis for faith.

I am glad you responded Cap'n. You are one of the people that made me put this post up (& I don't mean that in a negative way). Example: Many of your posts, while I don't agree with (as I am sure you know :wink: ) contain a lot of info that I have never heard of nor that my church has ever taught. So it makes me wonder if there is something I should be studying more or reading more of so that I could get a better understanding.
Some of what you post out there I read & say"What?!!? Where did that come from?" And it makes me wonder if I overlooked something or if I should be doing something differently.
Does that make sense?

Be like the Bereans. Don't take my word for anything. Read the Scriptures and decide for yourself.
Quote: Acts 17:10-15 - 10 The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

[perdidochas]

connermt wrote: perdidochas wrote: connermt wrote: perdidochas wrote: connermt wrote: perdidochas wrote: connermt wrote: Growing up, going to church & being a Christian seemed pretty simple. And admittedly I followed the teachings blindly, even when I had questions that no one could sufficiently answer. In addition, I never researched anything about my religion (or any religion). As I aged, I noticed there was A LOT of info that I have never heard of before. I see a lot of postings on here by certain people using words & names that I have never heard of, ideas that seem foreign to me & all the time speaking as if this information is common place in Christianity.
So it makes me wonder: Is christianity really this complex? I can guarantee that many 'average Joe' christians don't know of half the stuff I see & have heard of in the past couple years. If so, how can everyone be held to the same standard?
That then makes me ask: Are people making Christianity this complicated? If so, why? Does it make these people feel superior or smarter? Does it make them feel justified from {whatever}?

Any ideas?

I don't see what's complicated, and I'm Catholic, supposedly the most complicated version of Christianity. What specifically makes you think things are complicated? I agree that theology is complicated, but it's not a necessity. Faith is the necessity.
I agree - faith is necessary. But for me, it is hard to have faith when I see or hear things that I have never heard of (ideas, people that apparently important in the Bible or that seem important, etc).
Maybe I should re-phrase my issue: I see many things of what appears to be biblical importance that I am not aware of that makes me wonder if I am missing something.

That's the advantage of organized religion, IMHO. They take the worry out of "Am I missing something?" If you trust the leaders of your denomination, you don't have to worry about that.

I trust that my personal leaders are doing the best with what they have, but that still doesn't mean they have everything. I guess it is my nature to always look for proof & clarity no matter if it is available or not. :cry:

Part of it is also age. When younger, I questioned things more. In the end, though, I've come to the conclusion that I can trust my religious leaders. Everything I've examined has led me to the conclusion that they are correct. I question things less now, because of that.

That's interesting because I worked the exact opposite. When I was younger I took their word for it (well more so than I do now). Now I am starting to question things more.

Well, I just turned 40 in the fall. When I was in my late teens and twenties, I questioned more. As the answer to my questions confirmed what I was being told by my religious leaders, I trust them more. There's no need for me to question anymore.