Political Crossfire Forums

[blitz]

:-D The United States, although successful through the benfits of scale, natural resources and population, is 50-70 years behind the United Kingdom in terms of politics, morals, economics and social development and of course experience.

It could be argued that their laissez-faire economic policy is similar to Britain's economic policy prior to the rise of the unions and the labour party (i.e. 19thC). The same could be said of their welfare system which also places far less emphasis on the state. This is 100+ years though, not 50 or 70 years. It's worth noting that Thatcher's economic reforms, which appear to have placed the UK in a stronger economic position than the rest of Europe,

Condalisa Rice is the Scariest politician ever?

[AKAMad]

Is someone running a Most Controversial Topic competition. :lol:

[thundertaker]

I wouldn't be too surprised if you were really some Irish-American Fenian who wants to provoke the ire of a million proud americans so that you can masturbate over the inevitable anti-British vitriol this post is going to provoke......

[AKAMad]

thundertaker wrote: I wouldn't be too surprised if you were really some Irish-American Fenian who wants to provoke the ire of a million proud americans so that you can masturbate over the inevitable anti-British vitriol this post is going to provoke......

You are just as cynical as me :!: But. I think he is a Brit

[Lord Hargreaves]

blitz wrote: :-D The United States, although successful through the benfits of scale, natural resources and population,

Any person that has progressed past their times-table knows that the above are not the defining factors in economic success.

blitz wrote: is 50-70 years behind the United Kingdom in terms of politics, morals, economics and social development and of course experience.

Grow up

blitz wrote: It could be argued that their laissez-faire economic policy is similar to Britain's economic policy prior to the rise of the unions and the labour party (i.e. 19thC).

Um... No. No it couldn't.

blitz wrote: The same could be said of their welfare system which also places far less emphasis on the state.

Yeah those dastardly Americans still worship God and not bureaucrats. Perish the thought.

blitz wrote: This is 100+ years though, not 50 or 70 years. It's worth noting that Thatcher's economic reforms, which appear to have placed the UK in a stronger economic position than the rest of Europe,

Thats true, but God help me or anyone to try and get the link here.

blitz wrote: Condalisa Rice is the Scariest politician ever?

Yeah shes a black Republican, a traitor in your eyes I'd guess :roll:

[FinnMacCool]

Quote: morals,

Yeah I know, like humility.

[Lord Hargreaves]

FinnMacCool wrote: Quote: morals,

Yeah I know, like humility.

Touche

[blitz]

:-D Seriously those are only thoughts that i put to you, not nessasarly my opinions, looking at the American way of life and how the death penalty is still an establishment is surely going back in time from more modern nations, the right to bear arms is another example and clearly through history shows that it does not make a difference to people who are going to break the law.

[FinnMacCool]

blitz wrote: :-D Seriously those are only thoughts that i put to you, not nessasarly my opinions, looking at the American way of life and how the death penalty is still an establishment is surely going back in time from more modern nations, the right to bear arms is another example and clearly through history shows that it does not make a difference to people who are going to break the law.

All that means is that we're a conservative country. How does that make our morals lesser then yours?

Oh and I do I really have to mention the Uks little holocaust with those communists?

[AKAMad]

FinnMacCool wrote: Oh and I do I really have to mention the Uks little holocaust with those communists?

Do I really have to mention funding the murder of English children?

[FinnMacCool]

AKAMad wrote: FinnMacCool wrote: Oh and I do I really have to mention the Uks little holocaust with those communists?

Do I really have to mention funding the murder of English children?

What difference would it make? It just proves that your not more civilized then we are. I'm not attacking the Brits I'm just saying that claiming moral superiority is absurd.

[thundertaker]

blitz wrote: :-D Seriously those are only thoughts that i put to you, not nessasarly my opinions, looking at the American way of life and how the death penalty is still an establishment is surely going back in time from more modern nations, the right to bear arms is another example and clearly through history shows that it does not make a difference to people who are going to break the law.

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with putting a murderer to death who has been justly convicted by a jury of his peers. If it wasn't for the fact that this country is run by elitist *****, there would still be a death penalty in this country as most would support a return to hanging.
And the right to bear arms actually has English Origins from Clause 7 of the English Bill of Rights 1689, which stipulates that 'Subjects which be protestant shall keep and bear arms suitable for their defence, and as allowed by law'.

It was the Crown's alleged usurpation of this right that was one of the reasons behind the American War of Independence in the first place.....

[AKAMad]

FinnMacCool wrote:

What difference would it make? It just proves that your not more civilized then we are. I'm not attacking the Brits I'm just saying that claiming moral superiority is absurd.

Fair enough Finn, truce. Check out the view from my living room :!:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1636919.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1636919.stm

And that is just the Irish :!: Also within a mile of where I live :-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1636919.stm
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/somalia/?id=14133
http://www.sundayherald.com/50794

You are right about the past. There is no point arguing. When it comes to the present, and the actions of your military, moral superiority is not absurd, it is the only way you will win a war on terrorism. And when it comes to winning wars on terrorism, we have more experience than any other country in the world. I knew Guantanamo Bay, Fallujah and Abu Ghraib were f**k-ups 34 years ago.
I will let you Irish-Americans figure out how :!:
Fighting 2 wars on terrorism at the same time is bad enough, we have more troops in NI than Iraq, without an ally constantly making mistake. after mistake.

[FinnMacCool]

Yeah but our military doesn't reflect on our people. The reason why they are able to get away with stuff like that is because of they heavy propaganda our government pumps into us. Most americans consider torture unacceptable.

[AKAMad]

FinnMacCool wrote: Yeah but our military doesn't reflect on our people. The reason why they are able to get away with stuff like that is because of they heavy propaganda our government pumps into us. Most americans consider torture unacceptable.

Most people do separate the American people from the foreign policy of the country. A lot of people are so disappointed in America, because they do have high expectations. They were expecting Perry Mason and they got Abu Ghraib.
People in totalitarian regimes think that democratic countries are more democratic than they really are, so for them the actions of the military do reflect on the people.

[Lord Hargreaves]

blitz wrote: :-D Seriously those are only thoughts that i put to you, not nessasarly my opinions, looking at the American way of life and how the death penalty is still an establishment is surely going back in time from more modern nations, the right to bear arms is another example and clearly through history shows that it does not make a difference to people who are going to break the law.

All progress involves change, but there is no guarentee change will always bring progress. Its not a difficult point.

[maxtsu]

thundertaker wrote: blitz wrote: :-D Seriously those are only thoughts that i put to you, not nessasarly my opinions, looking at the American way of life and how the death penalty is still an establishment is surely going back in time from more modern nations, the right to bear arms is another example and clearly through history shows that it does not make a difference to people who are going to break the law.

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with putting a murderer to death who has been justly convicted by a jury of his peers. If it wasn't for the fact that this country is run by elitist *****, there would still be a death penalty in this country as most would support a return to hanging.
Problem I have with the death penalty is that it is irreversible.
To be human is to err. And I do not believe we can ever be 100%. Therefore I do not believe that we can be 100% that a person should be put to death.
Google "miscarriage of justice" for many, many examples.

[maxtsu]

Lord Hargreaves wrote: blitz wrote: :-D The United States, although successful through the benfits of scale, natural resources and population,

Any person that has progressed past their times-table knows that the above are not the defining factors in economic success.

I disagree with you.
The US benefits of scale do kick in, and kick in very well.
It is one of the biggest opportunities in the US.

If you create, invent, a softdrink, that does very well and takes off in the US.
You can instantly hit a market of 250million.
In Europe, the same process would most likely be restricted to a nation/country. i.e. your softdrink did well in German and took off there. It may not even hit the French or UK markets.
Less gearing.

Another example...
Multinational company. Call centers to deal with sales/service.
In the US, 1 single call center to deal with all of the States and Hawaii.
Europe, because of localisation, there tends to be a call center for each nation.
Therefore extra cost.

But it can be said that Europe is slowly consolidating in these areas.
But the benefits of scale do give the US a big advantage.

[thundertaker]

maxtsu wrote: thundertaker wrote: blitz wrote: :-D Seriously those are only thoughts that i put to you, not nessasarly my opinions, looking at the American way of life and how the death penalty is still an establishment is surely going back in time from more modern nations, the right to bear arms is another example and clearly through history shows that it does not make a difference to people who are going to break the law.

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with putting a murderer to death who has been justly convicted by a jury of his peers. If it wasn't for the fact that this country is run by elitist *****, there would still be a death penalty in this country as most would support a return to hanging.
Problem I have with the death penalty is that it is irreversible.
To be human is to err. And I do not believe we can ever be 100%. Therefore I do not believe that we can be 100% that a person should be put to death.
Google "miscarriage of justice" for many, many examples.

That is why in practice, I would oppose a return to th death penalty. However, I agree with the principle behind it, which is that people guilty of the most abombinble crimes do not deserve to live, and I certainly believe we should have the right as a sovreign nation to re-introduce the death penalty if we wanted to....

[AKAMad]

thundertaker wrote: That is why in practice, I would oppose a return to th death penalty. However, I agree with the principle behind it, which is that people guilty of the most abombinble crimes do not deserve to live, and I certainly believe we should have the right as a sovreign nation to re-introduce the death penalty if we wanted to....

Also executing terrorists is a really dumb idea