Political Crossfire Forums

Protostar · Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:30 am Post subject:

Leon Czolgosz wrote: George W Bush wrote: you know whats not unbelievable: the attitude that animals are as expendable as used magazines.

This position doesnt surprise me.

What surprises me is the what suprises those that have the philosophy that animals are house ornaments, that I - as an animal lover - would sacrifice alot to keep an animal alive.

I say to them, look around you. We have zoos, "animal planet" channel. Theres people that live for animals.

Regardless of how THEY see animals, I just cant believe they would think that caring for them was some alien characteristic.

Are they looking for some magic perception that will open their mind? Or are they looking to argue about the virtues of animals versus their well being.

Without animals, were just people - and that s*cks.

Like someone else said before, if you are that stupid to own an animal you cannot afford to keep alive - your judgements screwed up - I doubt you should even have kids.

Thats just my opinion. So, I could care less how you feel about my affinity towards animals.

Because they are expendable. a replacement dog is as cheap as shots for worms and the cost of spay or nuetering. They aren't disposable, but they are expendable.

If you truly cared for your dog, you wouldn't feel that way. My dog is most certainly NOT expendable.

George W Bush · Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:55 am Post subject:

OneZero wrote: George W Bush wrote: KOV-14 wrote: My 13 year old dog has cancer and we pay about $200 everytime we take him to the vet for treatment/threapy. (which is about 3 times a week.) No one in my family ever questioned if it was worth it.

Hows he holding up? Wish the best for him.

I know you know this but dont let these fools bully you into thinking any less about your decision to care for your pet. Pets are family and thats a good thing.

Gotta question for you George; choice between your dog and your kid, which do you pick? Why?

AS I dont have kids, I cant be worthy of an answer.

But, heres my answer:

I would refuse to be put in that situation.

If you were to hold a gun to my head, youde have to pull the trigger before I got my hands on the gun and put you out of your misery.

The point is this: that situation must be profoundly limiting for a decision to be made at which point I simply wouldnt decide.

Ide wait on college tuition to keep a dog alive. Ide go without food up to the brink of death to keep a dog alive.

So, take from that what you will. My values are different than yours.

Its great being a human being with the mind of your own, now isnt it?

OneZero · Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 3413

George W Bush wrote:
AS I dont have kids, I cant be worthy of an answer.

Oh come one, surely you can imagine yourself in such a position!
Very well. What if it were a choice between your dog and your mother, father, grandparents, girlfriend, best friend, or best friend's girlfriend. Which do you choose then?

Quote: But, heres my answer:

I would refuse to be put in that situation.

Wow I'm glad someone has finally figured out how to control every part of their life like that!

Quote:
The point is this: that situation must be profoundly limiting for a decision to be made at which point I simply wouldnt decide.

The point is if you don't choose it might be your dog, the other person, AND you.

Quote: Ide wait on college tuition to keep a dog alive. Ide go without food up to the brink of death to keep a dog alive.

That's sad. I love my dogs and I would do all I could to keep them alive, but kids go before my dog any day.

Quote: So, take from that what you will. My values are different than yours.

Our values are similar, you just are more extreme than I am. Like I've said again and again I love animals in general and my dogs in particular, but people > animals almost 100% of the time! That's just the way things are!

Protostar · Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject:

Quote: people > animals almost 100% of the time

I disagree with this. I'd gladly put my dogs life over most human beings I come into contact with on a daily basis.

OneZero · Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 3413

Protostar wrote: Quote: people > animals almost 100% of the time

I disagree with this. I'd gladly put my dogs life over most human beings I come into contact with on a daily basis.

That's only because you know and like your dog better. Has there ever been anyone you've known who you think is more important than your dog? Have you ever been married or had a girlfriend?

Protostar · Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:30 pm Post subject:

OneZero wrote: Protostar wrote: Quote: people > animals almost 100% of the time

I disagree with this. I'd gladly put my dogs life over most human beings I come into contact with on a daily basis.

That's only because you know and like your dog better. Has there ever been anyone you've known who you think is more important than your dog? Have you ever been married or had a girlfriend?

To answer you first question, yes. My grandparents and maybe my parents depending upon how I feel about them that particular day. To answer you second question, no, never had a GF and will never get married.

OneZero · Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 3413

Protostar wrote: OneZero wrote: Protostar wrote: Quote: people > animals almost 100% of the time

I disagree with this. I'd gladly put my dogs life over most human beings I come into contact with on a daily basis.

That's only because you know and like your dog better. Has there ever been anyone you've known who you think is more important than your dog? Have you ever been married or had a girlfriend?

To answer you first question, yes. My grandparents and maybe my parents depending upon how I feel about them that particular day. To answer you second question, no, never had a GF and will never get married.

There, that's all I'm trying to say, that saving loved humans is more important than saving loved animals.

Wolverine · Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 10980 Location: Podunk, Colorado

George W Bush wrote: OneZero wrote: George W Bush wrote: KOV-14 wrote: My 13 year old dog has cancer and we pay about $200 everytime we take him to the vet for treatment/threapy. (which is about 3 times a week.) No one in my family ever questioned if it was worth it.

Hows he holding up? Wish the best for him.

I know you know this but dont let these fools bully you into thinking any less about your decision to care for your pet. Pets are family and thats a good thing.

Gotta question for you George; choice between your dog and your kid, which do you pick? Why?

AS I dont have kids, I cant be worthy of an answer.

But, heres my answer:

I would refuse to be put in that situation.

If you were to hold a gun to my head, youde have to pull the trigger before I got my hands on the gun and put you out of your misery.

The point is this: that situation must be profoundly limiting for a decision to be made at which point I simply wouldnt decide.

Ide wait on college tuition to keep a dog alive. Ide go without food up to the brink of death to keep a dog alive.

So, take from that what you will. My values are different than yours.

Its great being a human being with the mind of your own, now isnt it?
Why don't you just answer the question? Would you rather a human being you love, die or an animal?

Leon Czolgosz · Joined: 05 Apr 2006 Posts: 190

avoidance

Protostar · Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:54 pm Post subject:

OneZero wrote: Protostar wrote: OneZero wrote: Protostar wrote: Quote: people > animals almost 100% of the time

I disagree with this. I'd gladly put my dogs life over most human beings I come into contact with on a daily basis.

That's only because you know and like your dog better. Has there ever been anyone you've known who you think is more important than your dog? Have you ever been married or had a girlfriend?

To answer you first question, yes. My grandparents and maybe my parents depending upon how I feel about them that particular day. To answer you second question, no, never had a GF and will never get married.

There, that's all I'm trying to say, that saving loved humans is more important than saving loved animals.

Indeed. I agree with that.

OneZero · Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 3413

Protostar wrote: OneZero wrote: Protostar wrote: OneZero wrote: Protostar wrote: Quote: people > animals almost 100% of the time

I disagree with this. I'd gladly put my dogs life over most human beings I come into contact with on a daily basis.

That's only because you know and like your dog better. Has there ever been anyone you've known who you think is more important than your dog? Have you ever been married or had a girlfriend?

To answer you first question, yes. My grandparents and maybe my parents depending upon how I feel about them that particular day. To answer you second question, no, never had a GF and will never get married.

There, that's all I'm trying to say, that saving loved humans is more important than saving loved animals.

Indeed. I agree with that.

Good.

George W Bush · Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:00 pm Post subject:

I did answer the question - human beings are not better than animals and vice versa.

But, lets be realistic here.

When has this situation ever arisen?

In that case, I would be able to answer. You need more specifics for an intelligent debate on values.

OneZero · Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 3413

George W Bush wrote: I did answer the question - human beings are not better than animals and vice versa.

But, lets be realistic here.

When has this situation ever arisen?

In that case, I would be able to answer. You need more specifics for an intelligent debate on values.

George you are a grasshopper, and a rat, and a skunk. Those are not insults, because animals are no better or worse than humans.
Think about it, why are so many insults related to animals? Because people know that animals are not as important as humans.

Wolverine · Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 10980 Location: Podunk, Colorado

George W Bush wrote: I did answer the question - human beings are not better than animals and vice versa.

But, lets be realistic here.

When has this situation ever arisen?

In that case, I would be able to answer. You need more specifics for an intelligent debate on values.
So you would think about saving Fluffy to the same extent as someone you love?

Canadian_Patriot · Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 323

If i was poor i would overdose my dog on morphine or tranquilizer or take the dog to a vet.

Leon Czolgosz · Joined: 05 Apr 2006 Posts: 190

bullet's cheaper...

OneZero · Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 3413

Leon Czolgosz wrote: bullet's cheaper...

But emotionally tougher than taking the animal to the vet or having someone else do it.

George W Bush · Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject:

OneZero wrote: George W Bush wrote: I did answer the question - human beings are not better than animals and vice versa.

But, lets be realistic here.

When has this situation ever arisen?

In that case, I would be able to answer. You need more specifics for an intelligent debate on values.

George you are a grasshopper, and a rat, and a skunk. Those are not insults, because animals are no better or worse than humans.
Think about it, why are so many insults related to animals? Because people know that animals are not as important as humans.

They are not insults. but I am none of them.

I am actually human. of the Caucasian male variety with a little more compassion than my similarly characteristic peers.

But, now, THATS something of an insult. To be grouped in the same category of folks who put little on animal life except what they can get from crucifying them.

I hope that isnt the case but I see it in old men like Leon. Ive got uncles like him and they would be the last ide save out of a burning building. Oh, I would rescue the animals before them.

oh well. you dont like my value system? what are YOU going to do about it? Were not here to play "my value system is better than yours". We can either learn from each other or exchange insults.

So far, i'm learning alot about what you say on these boards doesnt neccessarily reflect what you do in person. In other words, it seems some use these boards as emotional outlet for their rage against people.

Right, Leon?

George W Bush · Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject:

Wolverine wrote: George W Bush wrote: I did answer the question - human beings are not better than animals and vice versa.

But, lets be realistic here.

When has this situation ever arisen?

In that case, I would be able to answer. You need more specifics for an intelligent debate on values.
So you would think about saving Fluffy to the same extent as someone you love?

Yes. if i love "Fluffy". Why not?

Leon Czolgosz · Joined: 05 Apr 2006 Posts: 190

I'm 30