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connermt
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 1526
Location: CMH OHIO
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: Does a belief in God (or a god) promote a stable society? |
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I have wondered - assuming a society needs laws to function safely, do they then need a belief in God (or a god) as a foundation of these laws?
Is there any culture or society in the world that has NO belief in a god (or a force more powerful they)? |
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perdidochas
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15424
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Does a belief in God (or a god) promote a stable society |
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connermt wrote: I have wondered - assuming a society needs laws to function safely, do they then need a belief in God (or a god) as a foundation of these laws?
Is there any culture or society in the world that has NO belief in a god (or a force more powerful they)?
The communist countries didn't. Look how they turned out.... |
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thebreadloaf2003
Joined: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 213
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Does a belief in God (or a god) promote a stable society |
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connermt wrote: I have wondered - assuming a society needs laws to function safely, do they then need a belief in God (or a god) as a foundation of these laws?
Is there any culture or society in the world that has NO belief in a god (or a force more powerful they)?
i learned in a history class, that for a society to be technically called a society, there are key elements needed: people, religion, and culture
this sounds plausible, but i had doubts about many things that teacher told me...he seemed a little..off |
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connermt
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 1526
Location: CMH OHIO
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Does a belief in God (or a god) promote a stable society |
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perdidochas wrote: connermt wrote: I have wondered - assuming a society needs laws to function safely, do they then need a belief in God (or a god) as a foundation of these laws?
Is there any culture or society in the world that has NO belief in a god (or a force more powerful they)?
The communist countries didn't. Look how they turned out....
How exactly DID they turn out? |
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Duchifas
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 9950
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Does a belief in God (or a god) promote a stable society |
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connermt wrote: I have wondered - assuming a society needs laws to function safely, do they then need a belief in God (or a god) as a foundation of these laws?
Is there any culture or society in the world that has NO belief in a god (or a force more powerful they)?
If there is no one G-d that is the source of Divine values, then there is little basis to prefer one man's values (and laws that would stem from them) over another man's values. |
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feederband
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Everyone should no right from wrong...Don't need a God to do that... |
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thebreadloaf2003
Joined: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 213
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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feederband wrote: Everyone should no right from wrong...Don't need a God to do that...
well unfortunity, i, also an atheist, will have to take the religious side of this for jsut a moment. whether you want to believe it or not, there are bad parents out there who are foolish and ill-minded enough to not teach their children proper manners and social behavior. In this case, i feel that religion would be an effective means of teaching these moral lessons needed to function in everyday social life efficiently.
or you know, foster home the children for having bad parents...personaly i'd choose the foster home |
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connermt
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 1526
Location: CMH OHIO
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Does a belief in God (or a god) promote a stable society |
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Duchifas wrote: connermt wrote: I have wondered - assuming a society needs laws to function safely, do they then need a belief in God (or a god) as a foundation of these laws?
Is there any culture or society in the world that has NO belief in a god (or a force more powerful they)?
If there is no one G-d that is the source of Divine values, then there is little basis to prefer one man's values (and laws that would stem from them) over another man's values.
Ok
One of us missed the other one's point.
I am asking does someone need a belief in a higher power to make fair & just laws, or is it 'common sense'?
And, are there any cultures around today that don't have a belief in a higher pawer on which their laws are based? |
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feederband
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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thebreadloaf2003 wrote: feederband wrote: Everyone should no right from wrong...Don't need a God to do that...
well unfortunity, i, also an atheist, will have to take the religious side of this for jsut a moment. whether you want to believe it or not, there are bad parents out there who are foolish and ill-minded enough to not teach their children proper manners and social behavior. In this case, i feel that religion would be an effective means of teaching these moral lessons needed to function in everyday social life efficiently.
or you know, foster home the children for having bad parents...personaly i'd choose the foster home
Bad parents and knowing right from wrong are two different things...The only bad parents "I" know are religious....I'm Atheist and my 3 boys are some of the most manner kids you will find....Morals have nothing to do with religion...Parents whatever you believe in are directly responible for how their kids turn out...Get involved in what they are doing now because you will be unpleasently suprised down the road if you don't.. [/b] |
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perdidochas
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15424
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Does a belief in God (or a god) promote a stable society |
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connermt wrote: perdidochas wrote: connermt wrote: I have wondered - assuming a society needs laws to function safely, do they then need a belief in God (or a god) as a foundation of these laws?
Is there any culture or society in the world that has NO belief in a god (or a force more powerful they)?
The communist countries didn't. Look how they turned out....
How exactly DID they turn out?
Well, the Soviet Union ended up disastrously. China gave up on their old ideas..... Not very stable, if you ask me. |
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connermt
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 1526
Location: CMH OHIO
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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feederband wrote: thebreadloaf2003 wrote: feederband wrote: Everyone should no right from wrong...Don't need a God to do that...
well unfortunity, i, also an atheist, will have to take the religious side of this for jsut a moment. whether you want to believe it or not, there are bad parents out there who are foolish and ill-minded enough to not teach their children proper manners and social behavior. In this case, i feel that religion would be an effective means of teaching these moral lessons needed to function in everyday social life efficiently.
or you know, foster home the children for having bad parents...personaly i'd choose the foster home
Bad parents and knowing right from wrong are two different things...The only bad parents "I" know are religious....I'm Atheist and my 3 boys are some of the most manner kids you will find....Morals have nothing to do with religion...Parents whatever you believe in are directly responible for how their kids turn out...Get involved in what they are doing now because you will be unpleasently suprised down the road if you don't.. [/b]
That is a good point. TO say that religious people raise better (more moral) kids is false. While reiligon is a good bases to start out with in general, it is no guarantee that the kids will be good. It all depends on the parents & their maturity & skills at parenting. And even if the parents are the world's best, the kids can still suck |
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connermt
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 1526
Location: CMH OHIO
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Does a belief in God (or a god) promote a stable society |
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perdidochas wrote: connermt wrote: perdidochas wrote: connermt wrote: I have wondered - assuming a society needs laws to function safely, do they then need a belief in God (or a god) as a foundation of these laws?
Is there any culture or society in the world that has NO belief in a god (or a force more powerful they)?
The communist countries didn't. Look how they turned out....
How exactly DID they turn out?
Well, the Soviet Union ended up disastrously. China gave up on their old ideas..... Not very stable, if you ask me.
Is all this unstable-ness due to the lack of belief in a higher power or something else?
Do Russians &/or Chinese not have a belief in a high power? |
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Duchifas
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 9950
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Does a belief in God (or a god) promote a stable society |
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connermt wrote: Duchifas wrote: connermt wrote: I have wondered - assuming a society needs laws to function safely, do they then need a belief in God (or a god) as a foundation of these laws?
Is there any culture or society in the world that has NO belief in a god (or a force more powerful they)?
If there is no one G-d that is the source of Divine values, then there is little basis to prefer one man's values (and laws that would stem from them) over another man's values.
Ok
One of us missed the other one's point.
I am asking does someone need a belief in a higher power to make fair & just laws, or is it 'common sense'?
Gotcha, it is a bit different from what I thought you asked. But my answer would still be the same. The term "common" in common sense pretty much means that if a majority of people think or accept something as making sense, it becomes common. Thus, to recall one example, if majority of people in a society accept the idea that one race is superior to others (and all that flows from it), that becomes common sense for that society. From there to unjust laws is not a very long road, IMHO.
Quote: And, are there any cultures around today that don't have a belief in a higher pawer on which their laws are based?
I can think of France, to some extent. But whether those of their laws that are not based on Divine origins are fair and just is a matter of debate. :lol:
Communist countries had laws that were not based on a belief in a higher power. Those laws were neither just nor fair. |
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Gilbert1908
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 5248
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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feederband wrote: Everyone should no right from wrong...Don't need a God to do that...
What then is the origin of SHOULD KNOW? How SHOULD we KNOW? |
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John
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 24197
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Gilbert1908 wrote: feederband wrote: Everyone should no right from wrong...Don't need a God to do that...
What then is the origin of SHOULD KNOW? How SHOULD we KNOW?
Oh..you know...just random chemicals reacting. :wink: |
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feederband
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 4143
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Gilbert1908 wrote: feederband wrote: Everyone should no right from wrong...Don't need a God to do that...
What then is the origin of SHOULD KNOW? How SHOULD we KNOW?
That would be the brain...Certainly not god if thats what you are referring to. |
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Duchifas
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 9950
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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feederband wrote: Everyone should no right from wrong...Don't need a God to do that...
Is eating animals "right" or "wrong?"
That's a pretty simple issue, ain't it?
Afterwards, we can move on to more complicated matters like death penalty and abortion. Leaving G-d and Bible aside for a moment, are they "right" or "wrong?"
Do you REALLY know right from wrong? |
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John
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 24197
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Duchifas wrote: feederband wrote: Everyone should no right from wrong...Don't need a God to do that...
Is eating animals "right" or "wrong?"
That's a pretty simple issue, ain't it?
Afterwards, we can move on to more complicated matters like death penalty and abortion. Leaving G-d and Bible aside for a moment, are they "right" or "wrong?"
Do you REALLY know right from wrong?
Sure...most of us that are not completely insane know right from wrong.
The real question is why do we know.
Or quite frankly...WHO...put it there. |
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Duchifas
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 9950
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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John wrote: Sure...most of us that are not completely insane know right from wrong.
Ok. So, Bible aside, is eating meat right or wrong? |
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Duchifas
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Pornography. Right or wrong? |
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