Political Crossfire Forums

Erin · Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject:

red dragon wrote: Quote: I can see you are holding your own just fine without any of my interjections,

OOOhhh get her with her inflated ego, what like your going to make a difference in both of your bigoted opinions?? You have visions of grandeur me thinks, you really are special you know.....very special :roll: :roll: :roll:

Tell you what mo chara, calling people you don't know liars, does not a liar make! Trying to make yourself look like the big shot by slagging others off in a seriously juvenile manner doesn't really do anything other than underscore how pointless and irrelevant most of what you said is.

I never said I was special, and I know my opinions won't make any difference to someone like you who has a closed mind. But on the otherhand, you seem to think you have all the answers and you certainly don't either!

No one can be certain about any of this until there is concrete evidence and we may never know. But as far as the Special Branch and MI5 being involved, stranger things have happened. The british govt aren't exactly known for their ethical approach, and no one can rule out the loyalists. its all very dirty. IMO the dirty war most certainly is not over!

And as far as terrorisim goes, then your own Country qualifies, because ole' Tony Blair is right in the thick of things in Iraq holding George Dubbya's hand. At lease when the IRA were fighting, they were a peoples army, fighting for their beliefs and for their own Country. If that's the case then I suppose you think the Confederate Army were just a bunch of terrorists during the Civil War? Go peddle your assinine way of thinking to somebody else.

red dragon · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1692 Location: Cardiff

Erin wrote: red dragon wrote: Quote: I can see you are holding your own just fine without any of my interjections,

OOOhhh get her with her inflated ego, what like your going to make a difference in both of your bigoted opinions?? You have visions of grandeur me thinks, you really are special you know.....very special :roll: :roll: :roll:

Tell you what mo chara, calling people you don't know liars, does not a liar make! Trying to make yourself look like the big shot by slagging others off in a seriously juvenile manner doesn't really do anything other than underscore how pointless and irrelevant most of what you said is.

I never said I was special, and I know my opinions won't make any difference to someone like you who has a closed mind. But on the otherhand, you seem to think you have all the answers and you certainly don't either!

No one can be certain about any of this until there is concrete evidence and we may never know. But as far as the Special Branch and MI5 being involved, stranger things have happened. The british govt aren't exactly known for their ethical approach, and no one can rule out the loyalists. its all very dirty. IMO the dirty war most certainly is not over!

And as far as terrorisim goes, then your own Country qualifies, because ole' Tony Blair is right in the thick of things in Iraq holding George Dubbya's hand. At lease when the IRA were fighting, they were a peoples army, fighting for their beliefs and for their own Country. If that's the case then I suppose you think the Confederate Army were just a bunch of terrorists during the Civil War? Go peddle your assinine way of thinking to somebody else.

So I have provided evidence and journols in answer to your childish reposts and you tell me I am juvenille!!! I have ben sworn at, I have been told that points that I have raised, which have been in the international media are all lies. You claim that what I have said is a loyalist conspiracy, but it is for all to read like an open source book in cyberspace. You are in denial of the very facts, even Kennedy won't see Gerry Adams anymore.

Your a paranoid nut and an extremist, this guy was killed by former comrades whom he betrayed. Get used to the fact, you support a bunch of gangsters. The IRA were never fredom fighters, they are international terrorists who have been selling their expertise to muslim extremists for a price. FFS they have even been caught in South America teaching NARCO terrorists how to make mortars, but still your in denial.

You say my government (and yours for that matter) fought a dirty war.............your damn right, that's the only way to deal with terrorists, we knew who every single one of them was (and still is) we could have taken them all out over night in a blinlk of an eye, proving how succesful the infiltration and betrayal had been within the organisation.

As for Iraq, I am completely opposed to that war. But ther British and IRISH troops who join the BRITISH army are doing a sterling job in Basra, and they are making a lot of difference to those people, than someone like you who I feel enjoys peddling hate and conflict.

So it has now come down to both of you attacking me personally, you have not countered my points, you have both excused, twisted, deied and sworn at me and you have the cheek to say that I cannot debate and is childish................I need not make anymore comments it is written for all to see the real face of extrmists, who are paranoid and in denial.

BTW your special aren't you.............I don't think you grabbed the meaning of that yet. :-D :-D :-D :-D

mulberrymagnet · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 158

De Bhaldraithe wrote: mulberrymagnet wrote: De Bhaldraithe,

Firstly, extremists at either end of the spectrum are as bad as each other.

Second, you realy are living in lala land.

It's called Ireland. The reason that some ignorant people refer to it as lala land is summed up in three letters - DUP.

Look, the people in the British part voted to remain British, accept it and move on. Peter Hain is doing a grand job, and we will always have a certain affinity with you lot, even if you did help refuel Hitler's subs during the war.. we can put that all behind us and move on.

But stick to boy bands.

Ssushi · Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 6098

Isn't it true that in a country so split in the name of religion, with hatred and murder going back for 100's of years, that the murder just won't end? The attitude is so imbred into the communities of Ireland (inc. the north) that I don't see this sort of thing ending in a long long time; regardless of whether the para-militaries have stopped fighting or not....

It's sad to see. I spend a lot of time in Ireland and frequently witness anti-English sentiment. 'Live and let live' doesn't work among the masses let alone with the ex-fighters...

red dragon · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1692 Location: Cardiff

Like I have been trying to explain sushi these guys are rapidly being left behind in the 16th century with the taliban, whilst the rest of the world moves on. I think it is embarrassing that people like this exist in the UK. My personal opinion is that NI will join Ireland in the next couple of decades when the timing is right. that being most of these extremists are too old to do bugger all and all the past hate would have died away with them, and when Ireland is ready security wise to accept the Protestant communities.

But saying that there are still people harping on about 800 years ago and the rape of their lands :roll: :roll: which to be quite honest is not much good for anything apart from tuba cultivation, it has no real natural resources, it's not as if it's like Iraq or something.

De Bhaldraithe · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 180 Location: Éire

mulberrymagnet wrote: De Bhaldraithe wrote: mulberrymagnet wrote: De Bhaldraithe,

Firstly, extremists at either end of the spectrum are as bad as each other.

Second, you realy are living in lala land.

It's called Ireland. The reason that some ignorant people refer to it as lala land is summed up in three letters - DUP.

Look, the people in the British part voted to remain British, accept it and move on. Peter Hain is doing a grand job, and we will always have a certain affinity with you lot, even if you did help refuel Hitler's subs during the war.. we can put that all behind us and move on.

But stick to boy bands.

I have accepted it and moved on - read my posts and you will see that I have continuously argued in favour of the GFA.

I commend Peter Hain for the job he's doing. He seems to be really keen on getting proper devolved government, as have most of the Secrataries of State for NI have been since Mowlam (herself included). Though I nor any other Irish man have elected him, nor his team of civil servant officials. So even if he wasn't doing a grand job, I can do sweet FA about - the same luxury afforded to everyone in the six counties. We need our own representative politicians doing the work that they are paid for.

De Bhaldraithe · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 180 Location: Éire

Ssushi wrote: Isn't it true that in a country so split in the name of religion, with hatred and murder going back for 100's of years, that the murder just won't end? The attitude is so imbred into the communities of Ireland (inc. the north) that I don't see this sort of thing ending in a long long time; regardless of whether the para-militaries have stopped fighting or not....

It's sad to see. I spend a lot of time in Ireland and frequently witness anti-English sentiment. 'Live and let live' doesn't work among the masses let alone with the ex-fighters...

Trust me friend, anti-English sentiment is not restricted t our island. You'll find an anti-English sentiment in quite a lot of countries throughout the world because of your seedy past.

Though I agree with your attitude of "Live and let live" - I have many Protestant friends and colleagues and we get on very well. I want to see devolved government where our elected politicians can work together to help make this place a better place to live in and to make it a more accountable government for us all.

Seabird · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 31 Location: Philadelphia

red dragon,

Is it easy for you to pass judgment sitting in Wales. Tell me have you EVER lived in the north of Ireland? Do you know from experience or the news as to the happenings there?

For the life of me I cannot understand how you would even think that the IRA played a role in this murder.

The brits used Donaldson, set him up then threw him out for slaughter. You don't find it strange that they were spying on SF through Donaldson then shut Assembly down for the spy ring within SF. They had the nerve to accuse SF of spying and arrest Donaldson and his son-in-law. Now we find out it was the brits spying on SF. They consistently create smokescreens as a diversion to their own activities. You need to redirect your current way of thinking and actually look back at the history, somewhere you lost the truth.

With the past roles the brits have played ie collusion I am more inclined to believe that they had Donaldson executed. Donaldson took some very valuable information to the grave, they are now protected from scandal.

maxtsu · Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 1848 Location: European Union

Seabird wrote: ...
You don't find it strange that they were spying on SF through Donaldson then shut Assembly down for the spy ring within SF. They had the nerve to accuse SF of spying and arrest Donaldson and his son-in-law. Now we find out it was the brits spying on SF.
...

Actually, thats a very valid point.
Never thought about it that way, but your correct to point out the double spying issue.

red dragon · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1692 Location: Cardiff

Seabird wrote: red dragon,

Is it easy for you to pass judgment sitting in Wales. Tell me have you EVER lived in the north of Ireland? Do you know from experience or the news as to the happenings there?

For the life of me I cannot understand how you would even think that the IRA played a role in this murder.

The brits used Donaldson, set him up then threw him out for slaughter. You don't find it strange that they were spying on SF through Donaldson then shut Assembly down for the spy ring within SF. They had the nerve to accuse SF of spying and arrest Donaldson and his son-in-law. Now we find out it was the brits spying on SF. They consistently create smokescreens as a diversion to their own activities. You need to redirect your current way of thinking and actually look back at the history, somewhere you lost the truth.

With the past roles the brits have played ie collusion I am more inclined to believe that they had Donaldson executed. Donaldson took some very valuable information to the grave, they are now protected from scandal.

Your ridiculous and I'll treat your statement with the contempt it deserves, sitting all the way over there in the US. He had no secrets to take to the grave, he grassed on his former comrades and he was killed in an act of revenge....really :roll: :roll:

Seabird · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 31 Location: Philadelphia

red dragon,

red dragon wrote: Your ridiculous and I'll treat your statement with the contempt it deserves, sitting all the way over there in the US. He had no secrets to take to the grave, he grassed on his former comrades and he was killed in an act of revenge....really :roll: :roll:

Why the abrasiveness? Are you here to debate or dictate? Yes I am across the pond and you sir are in Wales, please explain your point? You know that Donaldson had no secrets? You are quite the devils advocate aren't you!

red dragon · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1692 Location: Cardiff

Seabird wrote: red dragon,

red dragon wrote: Your ridiculous and I'll treat your statement with the contempt it deserves, sitting all the way over there in the US. He had no secrets to take to the grave, he grassed on his former comrades and he was killed in an act of revenge....really :roll: :roll:

Why the abrasiveness? Are you here to debate or dictate? Yes I am across the pond and you sir are in Wales, please explain your point? You [b]know [/b]that Donaldson had no secrets? You are quite the devils advocate aren't you!

Please do tell what secrets did he have, overwhelm me by all means. Why the picture of Leonard on your avatr??

Seabird · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 31 Location: Philadelphia

red dragon,

red dragon wrote: Please do tell what secrets did he have, overwhelm me by all means.

Unlike you, I am not claiming to have all the answers but some common sense. This murder opened an avenue of suspicion for many, I am inclined to lean more toward the government because of their past behavior.

red dragon wrote: Why the picture of Leonard on your avatr??

I believe he is an innocent man railroaded by the judicial system! This thread is not about LP though lets stick to the topic.

red dragon · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1692 Location: Cardiff

Quote:
Unlike you, I am not claiming to have all the answers but some common sense. This murder opened an avenue of suspicion for many, I am inclined to lean more toward the government because of their past behavior.

Read these links it gives a pretty obvious picture what happened, he was even being warned by the Irish police that his life was in danger by disgruntled republicans.

Investigation

newsRepublican reaction

more republican cheering at his death

Hand cut off a sign for the hand that took the money

Now less of the conspiracies, they belong in the US with the JFK assasination and Rosewell.

red dragon · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1692 Location: Cardiff

Tortured

Yep looks like someone took their time to get information out of him first, ye looks like mMI5 would really do that.

Seabird · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 31 Location: Philadelphia

red dragon,

red dragon wrote: Read these links it gives a pretty obvious picture what happened, he was even being warned by the Irish police that his life was in danger by disgruntled republicans.

I read your links and found some very interesting words. . . could have, may have, suspected, might have been. Those are all speculatory and not factual. These links provided nothing but innuendos from the news media. I did not see where he was tortured, in actuality it stated he was shot through the door; they believe this nearly severed the hand, also he was shot in the chest and head. Please point to your source of reference for the torture that purportedly occurred. I believe you read what you want to hear and then in your mind believe it to be a true accounting.

McDowell stated the body had been mutilated but what does the autosy report say?? If there was mutilation was it before or after he was dead? If it was after death is this deemed torture? Was his body mutilated due to a shot gun blast to the torso? Is this deemed torture or an act of murder? McDowell said it therefore we must all wonder what the actual truth might be?

I will wait for the facts before I start wagging a finger.

De Bhaldraithe · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 180 Location: Éire

Seabird wrote: red dragon,

red dragon wrote: Read these links it gives a pretty obvious picture what happened, he was even being warned by the Irish police that his life was in danger by disgruntled republicans.

I read your links and found some very interesting words. . . could have, may have, suspected, might have been. Those are all speculatory and not factual. These links provided nothing but innuendos from the news media. I did not see where he was tortured, in actuality it stated he was shot through the door; they believe this nearly severed the hand, also he was shot in the chest and head. Please point to your source of reference for the torture that purportedly occurred. I believe you read what you want to hear and then in your mind believe it to be a true accounting.

McDowell stated the body had been mutilated but what does the autosy report say?? If there was mutilation was it before or after he was dead? If it was after death is this deemed torture? Was his body mutilated due to a shot gun blast to the torso? Is this deemed torture or an act of murder? McDowell said it therefore we must all wonder what the actual truth might be?

I will wait for the facts before I start wagging a finger.

Maith thú!

Seabird · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 31 Location: Philadelphia

De Bhaldraithe

You wrote: Maith thú!

:wink:

Erin · Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:50 am Post subject:

red dragon wrote: Tortured

Yep looks like someone took their time to get information out of him first, ye looks like mMI5 would really do that.

MI5 are more similar to the CIA than the FBI and if they ordered the hit on Donaldson they are smart enough to make it look like the Provos did it!

AND IF the Provos did it, why did they wait till now? Why not execute him when the whole thing was uncovered, so it would look like the British did him in? It makes more sense.

De Bhaldraithe · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 180 Location: Éire

Erin wrote: red dragon wrote: Tortured

Yep looks like someone took their time to get information out of him first, ye looks like mMI5 would really do that.

MI5 are more similar to the CIA than the FBI and if they ordered the hit on Donaldson they are smart enough to make it look like the Provos did it!

AND IF the Provos did it, why did they wait till now? Why not execute him when the whole thing was uncovered, so it would look like the British did him in? It makes more sense.

Red Dragon is obviously not capable of thinking logically. It doesn't appear that "sense" or "logic" are concepts that he is familiar with.