Political Crossfire Forums

[De Bhaldraithe]

How the hell do you know who killed him when the Gardaí don’t know? Perhaps you should make a call to Glenties Garda station and enlighten them with your infallable judgement?

I’m not talking about the FBI, I’m talking about the MI5 and yes they are killers. This is not an opinion. It is what they are. They used loyalist murder squads and provided them with the intelligence to carry out several murders. Collusion with the British security forces and the British intelligence agencies. Would you honestly believe that a bunch of loyalist drug dealing iliterates would have the know-how to murder Pat Finucane or Rosemary Nelson in the manners in which they were killed? Go away and stop being so naïve.

Right ok, you say he was recruited for money. How do you know this? Where is your proof? Are all informants recruited for money? How much did Donaldson get I wonder.

Read my post you stupid person and you will see that I said that I didn’t think the MI5 are behind the murder. Go read it and come back with an argument – do not put words in my mouth that have not come from my mouth.

You’re right that there were and still are many informants or double agents in the Republican Movement. Money is for the most part nothing to do with it – of course, there are people that have done it just for money. There are people that have done it for their feelings of guilt in being involved in the war where people were killed, and those people are entitled to feel that guilt. But you must acknowledge the fact that there are people that were turned informants through means of torture and via threats to their own lives and to the lives of their family. If you do not accept this, then you’re just a simple minded numbscull that can not see plain daylight.

That’s all I have to say to you.

[red dragon]

De Bhaldraithe wrote: How the hell do you know who killed him when the Gardaí don’t know? Perhaps you should make a call to Glenties Garda station and enlighten them with your infallable judgement?

I’m not talking about the FBI, I’m talking about the MI5 and yes they are killers. This is not an opinion. It is what they are. They used loyalist murder squads and provided them with the intelligence to carry out several murders. Collusion with the British security forces and the British intelligence agencies. Would you honestly believe that a bunch of loyalist drug dealing iliterates would have the know-how to murder Pat Finucane or Rosemary Nelson in the manners in which they were killed? Go away and stop being so naïve.

Right ok, you say he was recruited for money. How do you know this? Where is your proof? Are all informants recruited for money? How much did Donaldson get I wonder.

Read my post you stupid person and you will see that I said that I didn’t think the MI5 are behind the murder. Go read it and come back with an argument – do not put words in my mouth that have not come from my mouth.

You’re right that there were and still are many informants or double agents in the Republican Movement. Money is for the most part nothing to do with it – of course, there are people that have done it just for money. There are people that have done it for their feelings of guilt in being involved in the war where people were killed, and those people are entitled to feel that guilt. But you must acknowledge the fact that there are people that were turned informants through means of torture and via threats to their own lives and to the lives of their family. If you do not accept this, then you’re just a simple minded numbscull that can not see plain daylight.

That’s all I have to say to you.

You are a paranoid nut!!! The IRA killed him exacting revenge for stitching his fellow terrorists going back 20 years, the IRA have always dealt with grasses this way. Believe me sunshine I know a damn lot more than you, an over romantacised visionary of a bunch of thugs, murderers, drug dealers, petrol smugglers and fraudsters claiming money from mobility cars for the disabled in fake car crashes. It doesn't matter whether you did claim MI5 killed him, it's just the idea that you have even entetained that it could be true, even though you 'don't think so'. And if you know so much why don't you go down the police station and tell them your mad inane MI5 plot. And now by your admission your have admitted that MI5 didn't kill anyone, they supplied information, so they aren't killers them are they?? BTW Mi5 is the equivelant of the FBI :roll: :roll:

I know he was recruited for money because I just googled it, ever heard of google you paranoid moonbat???

[De Bhaldraithe]

Oh yes that wealth of reliable information....

Do you honestly think that after all of the work that the Republican movement has put into building a peace process, that they would throw it all away for the sake of killing one low life scumbag?

Have a wee think to yourself. Would that be a sensible move?

[red dragon]

Firstly define Republican movement, or dissedent thugs. The Republican movement have already carried out a famous slaying in a pub of a certain Mr. Mccartney stabbing him to death and beating his head in with metal bars. Also their punishment beatings, cutting young mens archilles heels with bolt croppers, kneecappings and other violent acts of self policing (sorry terorising) their own catholic communities. So your being disingenuous by saying that they are worried about the peace process, because evidently they don't give a toss. And dissedent members enacted revenge on him for 20 years of deceit.

Anyway i thought you had nothing else to say to me.

[De Bhaldraithe]

red dragon wrote: Firstly define Republican movement, or dissedent thugs. The Republican movement have already carried out a famous slaying in a pub of a certain Mr. Mccartney stabbing him to death and beating his head in with metal bars. Also their punishment beatings, cutting young mens archilles heels with bolt croppers, kneecappings and other violent acts of self policing (sorry terorising) their own catholic communities. So your being disingenuous by saying that they are worried about the peace process, because evidently they don't give a toss. And dissedent members enacted revenge on him for 20 years of deceit.

Anyway i thought you had nothing else to say to me.

That's only because I thought you were a wind-up merchant. However I now realise that you are genuinely dim and I've decided to take a little time out to educate you.

You say that the Republican movement have "slayed" McCartney. The fact of the matter is that Mr. McCartney got himself into a fight one night in a pub and a small gang of men stabbed and beat him as you rightly say. The IRA as an organisation had nothing to do with it. Because some of these men may have had connections with the IRA means nothing.

Now, you talk about punishment beatings. I live in this country and I can tell you that punishment beatings in this day and age are (unfortunately, in my opinion) a myth. They are extinct. Ten years ago, of course, seven years ago, maybe. I have not heard of a single punishment beating carried out by the IRA since 2000.

Whoever killed Denis Donaldson has nothing to do with Sinn Féin and if it were a member of the IRA, they did so off of their own back with absolutely no authorisation from the army authorities. To argue that they could have had authority would be proposterous.

Tá súil agam gur thug mé leargas duit a amadáin!

[red dragon]

Quote: ou say that the Republican movement have "slayed" McCartney. The fact of the matter is that Mr. McCartney got himself into a fight one night in a pub and a small gang of men stabbed and beat him as you rightly say. The IRA as an organisation had nothing to do with it. Because some of these men may have had connections with the IRA means nothing.

Your are an apologist of the worst kind. Your denying that the IRA offered to shoot the guilty parties?? Are you denying that the mccartney sisters have been intimidated??? Are you denying that Martin Macguiness gave them a veiled threat of manipulation by forces??? Are you denying that all of the Mccartney sisters have now been chased out of their housing by IRA supporters?? Are you denying that 72 people dissapeared into the so called TARDIS toilets as they have been named and didn't witness anything?? Are you denying IRA supporters washed the bar clan of any forensic evidence?? Are you denying that the surveillance tape from the pub dissapeared??? Are you denying that three prominent mebers of the IRA have been publicly named and used to be bodyguards for Gerry Adams?? Can you deny all of that??

You are are the worst type of human being imaginable....indeed it is you who are dim and misguided by apologising and excusing this type of behaviour in the modern western world. I hope NI goes to Ireland, because it rids this modern plural society of religious biggotted **** like you who still live in the 16th century like the damn taliban.[


Chi'n siarad trwy eich dwll du.

[De Bhaldraithe]

Why are you assuming that I am a bigot?

And why do you assume that I am apologising or excusing any of what you have said.

Do yourself a favour and read over what you post before clicking the submit button ok son.

1. I under no circumstances have or should apologise for the McCartney killing as I had nothing to do with it.

2. I under no circumstances have excused it. It was appalling, though it was not carried out under the authority of the IRA. It was a bar room brawl involving republicans that got out of hand.

3. I under no circumstances excuse the actions of the witnesses that have not come forward, nor do I excuse the actions of the people that may or may not be intimidating them.

4. You should also remember that the leadership of Sinn Féin and the IRA publicly called for witnesses to come forward to the police.


Stop trying to make it seem like I have said something which I have not said you ignorant, aggressive and misguided p***k!

[red dragon]

De Bhaldraithe wrote: Why are you assuming that I am a bigot?

And why do you assume that I am apologising or excusing any of what you have said.

Do yourself a favour and read over what you post before clicking the submit button ok son.

1. I under no circumstances have or should apologise for the McCartney killing as I had nothing to do with it.

2. I under no circumstances have excused it. It was appalling, though it was not carried out under the authority of the IRA. It was a bar room brawl involving republicans that got out of hand.

3. I under no circumstances excuse the actions of the witnesses that have not come forward, nor do I excuse the actions of the people that may or may not be intimidating them.

4. You should also remember that the leadership of Sinn Féin and the IRA publicly called for witnesses to come forward to the police.


Stop trying to make it seem like I have said something which I have not said you ignorant, aggressive and misguided p***k!

1. So you admit then that the IRA were involved.

2. So your saying it's ok if the IRA sanctioned it.

3.You admit that witness intimidation has been caried out by thye IRA.

4. That's not true, the Mccartney sisters made a plea for witnesses to contact the PSNI, SF and the terrorist group asked people to pass information through a solicitor or the police ombudsman, never have they said to contact the police.

Like I said the world is moving on, I'm not particular bothered by backward thinking people like you, your being left behind in the annuls of history whilst the world moves onto a different tune. Enjoy your religious bigotory and the unionist for that matter, I can't believe morons like you still exist in the 21st century. You poor misguided mullah.

[De Bhaldraithe]

red dragon wrote:
1. So you admit then that the IRA were involved.


No. People were involved that were / are members of the IRA. If a British army soldier beats someone to death in a pub, it isn't the British army - can't you get that through your thick skull!!!

red dragon wrote:
2. So your saying it's ok if the IRA sanctioned it.


No. You're putting words in my mouth again. What I am saying is that the IRA did not sanction it, therefore it was not an IRA action.

red dragon wrote:
3.You admit that witness intimidation has been caried out by thye IRA.


No. Again, witness intimidation may have been carried out by people that are / were members of the IRA. The IRA did not sanction anyone to intimidate anyone.

red dragon wrote:
4. That's not true, the Mccartney sisters made a plea for witnesses to contact the PSNI, SF and the terrorist group asked people to pass information through a solicitor or the police ombudsman, never have they said to contact the police.


You've taken that completely out of context which is only to be expected from an ignorant fool. The reason SF and the IRA appealed for people to go through a solicitor is because the Catholic community by and large is not confident nor comfortable with the PSNI due to years of harassment and sectarian abuse at the hands of the RUC. What difference does it make as to the methods someone uses to contact the police?

red dragon wrote:
Like I said the world is moving on, I'm not particular bothered by backward thinking people like you, your being left behind in the annuls of history whilst the world moves onto a different tune. Enjoy your religious bigotory and the unionist for that matter, I can't believe morons like you still exist in the 21st century. You poor misguided mullah.


You clearly are bothered by me if you are to waste a large portion of your Sunday afternoon arguing with me over this so don't pretend you're not.

Again, why do you insist on calling me a bigot? Have I made any bigotted remarks in any of my posts?

Why do you not answer any of my questions?

Why do you continue to argue something that you have no experience or knowledge of? You are clearly ignorant to the situation yet you try to make out that you are not.

[red dragon]

Quote: red dragon wrote:

1. So you admit then that the IRA were involved.


No. People were involved that were / are members of the IRA. If a British army soldier beats someone to death in a pub, it isn't the British army - can't you get that through your thick skull!!!

So you are saying the IRA were involved, do you even understand what you are saying???

Quote: red dragon wrote:

2. So your saying it's ok if the IRA sanctioned it.


No. You're putting words in my mouth again. What I am saying is that the IRA did not sanction it, therefore it was not an IRA action.

Are you clinically mad?? You just said that people that were/ are members are involved by your own admission?? Are you crazy, or do you just write stupid things you hypocrite??



Quote:
3.You admit that witness intimidation has been caried out by thye IRA.


No. Again, witness intimidation may have been carried out by people that are / were members of the IRA. The IRA did not sanction anyone to intimidate anyone. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Not happy with doing it once you do it a second time :lol: :lol: You contradict yourself at every twist and turn.



Quote:
4. That's not true, the Mccartney sisters made a plea for witnesses to contact the PSNI, SF and the terrorist group asked people to pass information through a solicitor or the police ombudsman, never have they said to contact the police.


You've taken that completely out of context which is only to be expected from an ignorant fool. The reason SF and the IRA appealed for people to go through a solicitor is because the Catholic community by and large is not confident nor comfortable with the PSNI due to years of harassment and sectarian abuse at the hands of the RUC. What difference does it make as to the methods someone uses to contact the police?

But you said they asked for witnesses to contact the ploice!!! my god we have a right one here, who contradicts himself for a third time :lol: :lol:

Quote: red dragon wrote:

Like I said the world is moving on, I'm not particular bothered by backward thinking people like you, your being left behind in the annuls of history whilst the world moves onto a different tune. Enjoy your religious bigotory and the unionist for that matter, I can't believe morons like you still exist in the 21st century. You poor misguided mullah.



You clearly are bothered by me if you are to waste a large portion of your Sunday afternoon arguing with me over this so don't pretend you're not.

Again, why do you insist on calling me a bigot? Have I made any bigotted remarks in any of my posts?

Why do you not answer any of my questions?

Why do you continue to argue something that you have no experience or knowledge of? You are clearly ignorant to the situation yet you try to make out that you are not.

i'm not wasting my Sunday afternoon, i've mowed the lawn, dropped the wife and kiddies up their nans for dinner, done some shopping for food for the kids lunches as they are off for two weeks and done some research on some stocks I want to buy next week. I would say it is a Sunday well spent, this is just a minor distraction.

I call you a bigot because that's what you are, the same way I would call a protestant who supported the Red Hand gang with violence against catholics. A bigot is a bigot is a bigot. And clearly your also bigoted against English people, who I can clearly state with 99.9% accuracy, couldn't give a freaking toss about NI and your ilk. Must be hard for you lot now with not much money coming state side now that they know what terrorism is like and are fighting it.

I do not answer your questions because you haven't asked any, you just spout rubbish you claim as fact and judging by what I written above to your crap that clearly is not true.

Who said I have no experience, wtf do you know? I know enough to spot a terorist sympathiser and apologist who makes the most lame excuses for the most depraved types of human behaviour imaginable. Like I said your being lest behind in the 16th century like the taliban whilst the worldmoves on.

[De Bhaldraithe]

I'm surprised to hear you have a wife and kids. From your posts I would have thought you were still in school.

Anyway, there's no point in arguing with you, you simply haven't got the intellect nor the patience nor the tolerance to have a proper debate. You are a sad person with distorted views. Go and fcuk yourself!

[red dragon]

Seems to me you have had your ass well and truly kicked, comeback when you get some Grey material between your thick bigoted skull. Apologist, excuse maker and bigot all rolled into one and you have the cheek to call me a kid whilst telling me to go and fornicate myself. Class act aren't you, what's next your going to threaten me with your provo friends and give me a kneecapping.

Your being left behind even by the real Irish, who are having a boom time, whilst honest workers like me have to funnel our hard earned taxes into your sorry ass province to stop you from tearing yourselves to pieces. Because you lot can't act like grown ups and continue to show your immaturity on the world stage. Your a freaking embarresment to this country and i would rather just cut you off and float your pathetic province into the atlantic than have the poor Irish suffer the indignity and violence the last 30 years if it was united.

[De Bhaldraithe]

red dragon wrote: Seems to me you have had your ass well and truly kicked, comeback when you get some Grey material between your thick bigoted skull. Apologist, excuse maker and bigot all rolled into one and you have the cheek to call me a kid whilst telling me to go and fornicate myself. Class act aren't you, what's next your going to threaten me with your provo friends and give me a kneecapping.

Your being left behind even by the real Irish, who are having a boom time, whilst honest workers like me have to funnel our hard earned taxes into your sorry ass province to stop you from tearing yourselves to pieces. Because you lot can't act like grown ups and continue to show your immaturity on the world stage. Your a freaking embarresment to this country and i would rather just cut you off and float your pathetic province into the atlantic than have the poor Irish suffer the indignity and violence the last 30 years if it was united.

No don't delude yourself, I'm just fed up trying to talk to a clearly sectarian bigoted bastard who just seems to spout the same **** over and over again. I have better things to do. It's been good conversing with you though.

Ádh mór ort!

[red dragon]

I'm not even religious so I am not sectarian and as I have mentioned my wrath is equal also to the other orange order tossers who are as every bit as bad.

[De Bhaldraithe]

red dragon wrote: I'm not even religious so I am not sectarian and as I have mentioned my wrath is equal also to the other orange order tossers who are as every bit as bad.

The don't call me a bigot. It's not nice being called something that you're not.

[Erin]

dia dhuit DB,

I am certainly not a Gaeilgeoir. Níl Gaeilge líofa agam. I am a culchie growing up on the West Coast of Ireland in Bally Ferriter known for its pottery, wool and fishing. Moved to the U.S. 12 years ago. I go back often.

I can see you are holding your own just fine without any of my interjections, but I would like to ask Red Dragon do they teach this type of bigotry **** to all you young eejits in your proper British schools? You are beyond the pale with your remarks.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
- Billy Madison

I'll repeat what I said before:

Quote: Denis Donaldson's death, after his being unearthed as an agent, would not have come as a shock several years ago. Traditionally, the price of informing on the IRA has been execution. But last year the IRA, in laying down its arms, formally announcing an end to its armed struggle and exhorting its volunteers to work politically for the organisation's objectives, certainly eschewed action such as a revenge killing.

Ian Paisley's DUP, in particular, by blaming "Sinn Fein/IRA" and alleging continued IRA activity has exploited Donaldson's death as a golden pretext for the DUP's continued opposition to power sharing and the Good Friday Agreement.

The republican movement had nothing to gain by killing Donaldson. It needs peace in order to bed down the Agreement and work the all-Ireland bodies established by it. Crucially, Sinn Fein needs peace to expand on its flourishing electoral base in the south of Ireland and perhaps hold the balance of power in a future coalition. It certainly does not need a fresh, brutal reminder of the old days.

For the IRA to be linked to Donaldson's death would completely undermine its strategy. Nevertheless, the DUP and sections of the media, largely because of their own bias, claim his killing could only have been carried out by the IRA. Others allow for the possibility of IRA volunteers acting unofficially, individual republicans or dissidents aiming to scupper the peace process on the eve of a major announcement about the future of the Assembly by the British and Irish premiers in Armagh.

Few in the media or among mainstream political parties have dared to consider British involvement.

Denis Donaldson, for whatever reason, would not reveal to his former comrades how the British "turned" him into becoming an agent, nor the detail and extent of his betrayal. He was a liability and still had secrets about Stormontgate, amongst others: dangerous secrets which could potentially damage his British superiors.

Why would British involvement, rogue or otherwise, seem so fantastical? We know that members of British intelligence and the Special Branch ran loyalist murder squads; that as far back as the 1970s the Garda Siochana were infiltrated by the British; that during the conflict they allowed their agents in the IRA - such as "Stakeknife" - to kill. They allowed other agents to kill soldiers and policemen in order to establish and maintain their subversive credentials. In a desperate attempt to thwart Sir John Stevens' inquiry they even burned down his offices! It was certainly a dirty war.

The media is so conditioned to be hostile to the republican movement that it does a disservice to the public by not exploring all the possibilities, however unpalatable the possible conclusions. Why doesn't some MP ask the British prime minister in the House of Commons if he can he rule out the possibility of state involvement in the assassination of Denis Donaldson?

As far as the NI Bank Heist, the McCartney Murder, etc., that is just a bunch of malarky that is propogated by the Loyalists and Ian Paisleyites that are entrenched in their a paranoid, persecution-complex-induced fantasies.

[red dragon]

Quote:
As far as the NI Bank Heist, the McCartney Murder, etc., that is just a bunch of malarky that is propogated by the Loyalists and Ian Paisleyites that are entrenched in their a paranoid, persecution-complex-induced fantasies.


Oh my god another moonbat apologist!!! Paaisley is a nutter I will give you that. I feel the dumber and ashamed for not one of you having the moral fibre to admit that the IRA are evil and use terrorist means like Al Qaeda, who behave like the mafia and have terrorised their own population. But hey it was MI5 all along. I think this board can see you for what you are.

Quote: An investigation was immediately mounted. The BBC reported that early in the case, Chief Constable Hugh Orde suggested that the IRA was likely involved in the robbery. CBS News said it was a view shared by the "British and Irish government and all other parties in both parts of Ireland.

Chief Constable Hugh Orde
Chief Constable Hugh Orde

According to the report, the group had "the biggest reputation for mounting bank robberies." The IRA had been blamed for a similar May 2004 robbery of Northern Ireland's biggest retail store, where hostages were taken and almost $8 million was stolen, CBS News said. However, the IRA flatly rejected all allegations of their involvement.

In February 2005, seven suspects, "including a member of the IRA-linked Sinn Fein party," were arrested in "the biggest of several coordinated raids targeting IRA money-laundering operations across the Republic of Ireland," said CBS News. More than $3 million dollars was seized during a search. The money was suspected to have been that stolen during the Northern Bank robbery, although police could not confirm it at the time.

That same month, around $100,000 was found in the toilet of the police athletic association's Newforge Country Club. The police later confirmed that the money was taken during the Northern Bank heist. The BBC reported that the stash was likely "planted to distract detectives" investigating the robbery and "divert attention from events elsewhere."

The police continue to investigate, and hope to recover more of the stolen money. The BBC reported that Northern Bank has decided to exchange old Northern Bank money for notes with a new design and color. Thus, the old currency will eventually be rendered invalid, making it difficult for the robbers to spend some of their loot. Regardless, the thieves will still have enough euros and dollars left over to invest in whatever they choose.



This was taken from an American report for impartiallity. So whilst again you claim that the IRA had nothing to do with it, the UK and IRISH governments say they do. And a Sinn Fein member has been charged, so that makes you a liar and a hypocrite. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[red dragon]

Quote: I can see you are holding your own just fine without any of my interjections,

OOOhhh get her with her inflated ego, what like your going to make a difference in both of your bigoted opinions?? You have visions of grandeur me thinks, you really are special you know.....very special :roll: :roll: :roll:

[mulberrymagnet]

De Bhaldraithe,

Firstly, extremists at either end of the spectrum are as bad as each other.

Second, you realy are living in lala land.

[De Bhaldraithe]

mulberrymagnet wrote: De Bhaldraithe,

Firstly, extremists at either end of the spectrum are as bad as each other.

Second, you realy are living in lala land.

It's called Ireland. The reason that some ignorant people refer to it as lala land is summed up in three letters - DUP.