Political Crossfire Forums

red dragon · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1692 Location: Cardiff

Quote: When will England get the fcuk out of the north of IRELAND and leave Ireland to the Irish! I am not meddling your flippin government is.

When you lot in the US hand back Hawaii to it's native people and help Indian Americans to get their tribal lands back and off the reservations...............simply as that really isn't it. I don't think anyone needs a fat assed yank mouthing off about 'home' who doesn't understand the concept of due process and democracy and the implications of letting NI unite overnight. Either your extremely stupid or naive, I think the former because you obviously haven't given a single thought to the implications. So are you going to give Hawaii back to it's indigenous population?? And apologise for what your country did to Queen Liliuokalani

mulberrymagnet · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 158

Seabird wrote: mulberrymagnet wrote: You obviously haven't read the GFA which will lead up to a United Ireland. I don't think so. Thanks for your input. Not like an American to be butting in, in another countries business. First people from Eire, and now the US, where will this foreign meddling in the UK stop eh?.

It is pathetic when people come on a website assuming they know their opponents; do not be deceived. You have no idea my origin of birth nor anything about me so how can you make such a broad assumption.

When will England get the fcuk out of the north of IRELAND and leave Ireland to the Irish! I am not meddling your flippin government is.

Listen. Your rhetoric is based on many things, a full grasp of the facts alas, not being one of them. Thanks for dropping in once more.

AKAMad,

You sir are a bigot!

AKA wrote: northern Catholics breed like rabbits

Nothing like alittle sarcasm to motivate a post!

AKA wrote: I think the reason why people insult in a foreign language, apart from the pathetic sense of superiority, is the fantasy that we care enough to actually bother to go and translate it.

Feeling alittle inferior?

AKA wrote: is that English men have been enjoying all that repressed Catholic sexuality over here for 150 years, and vice versa. Most English are at least partly Irish. It just adds to the pointlessness of it

That MUST be why english men have a world renown reputation for being the worst lovers! :lol:

De Bhaldraithe,

You wrote: I'm not Catholic, these comments don't bother me in the slightest

Tsk, Tsk It bothers me, it a very bigoted comment that is uncalled for. He has been stereotyping the entire thread.

red dragon · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1692 Location: Cardiff

Quote:
Listen. Your rhetoric is based on many things, a full grasp of the facts alas, not being one of them. Thanks for dropping in once more.

I would have to agree.

AKAMad · Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Posts: 300 Location: Birmingham

Seabird wrote:
AKAMad,

You sir are a bigot!

Funny, none of the Black women I've slept with have made that complaint, or any other kind of complaint. If you think I am a bigot, you should have heard my Grandmother. She didn't like the Germans, the Japanese or the Irish.
Maybe you are confusing racism with patriotism, or maybe your misinterpretation says more about your attitude than mine.

Seabird · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 31 Location: Philadelphia

Samuel Johnson wrote: Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

thundertaker · Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject:

Seabird wrote: Samuel Johnson wrote: Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

Samuel Johnson was an anglo-chauvinist bigot who despised most people who were not English. Especially Americans and the Scots. Though ironically enough he seemed to be rather sympathetic towards the Irish:

(To an Irishman, on Ireland's political state)
"Do not make a union with us, Sir. We should unite with you, only to rob you. We should have robbed the Scotch, if they had had any thing of which we could have robbed them."

"I have long wished that the Irish literature were cultivated. Ireland is known by tradition to have been once the seat of piety and learning; and surely it would be very acceptable to all those who are curious either in the original of nations, or the affinities of languages, to be further informed of the revolution of a people so ancient, and once so illustrious."

"The Irish are in a most unnatural state; for we see there the minority prevailing over the majority. There is no instance, even in the ten persecutions, of such severity as that which the protestants of Ireland have exercised against the Catholicks. Did we tell them we have conquered them, it would be above board: to punish them by confiscation and other penalties, as rebels, was monstrous injustice."

Seabird · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 31 Location: Philadelphia

irony: an englishman hating everyone but the irish LOL says alot about Samuel Johnson but that is neither here nor there. I love his words on patriotism!

http://www.irishnews.com/access/daily/current.asp?SID=521420

Unionists Getting Ready For ‘Divorce’ Says Adams

Politics
By William Graham Political Correspondent

Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams has claimed that a
surprising number of unionists now believe a united Ireland
is inevitable and only a matter of time.

He said that “this generation can live in a united Ireland
and Sinn Fein is wedded to democratic and peaceful means.”

Mr Adams said Sinn Fein wanted to see a republic that
encompasses the entire island and is rights-based “but the
unionists have to be comfortable in it”.

“This is the challenge,” Mr Adams said, “for republicans
and nationalists.”

And Mr Adams said they had to engage with all dimensions of
unionism.

For example, he said it was clear the business community
see Ireland as a single economic unit.

Mr Adams was speaking at a press conference to relaunch a
Sinn Fein discussion document which calls on the Irish
government to publish a Green Paper and to begin the
practical planning for Irish unity .

He was asked if Irish unity was any nearer now or was
Northern Ireland in fact more like a British-administered
province?

Mr Adams replied: “Well it is obviously part of the British
state and that remains.

“But it is not as British as Finchley. There is an odd
relationship now, constitutionally. It reminds me in many
ways of a couple who decide to divorce but decide to wait
until the children grow up.

“The British government have legislated for that type of
arrangement.

“You also have to factor in the resurgence, renewal and
strength of Irish republicanism right across the island,
obviously within Sinn Fein but not solely within SF.”

Mr Adams said the two big challenges remain ... persuading
the unionists of the merits “of our vision” and persuading
the British government “to do the right thing.”

“We need to repeat and remind ourselves that the national
colours, the Irish national colours, are green, white and
orange. The white signifying peace and harmony and equality
between the orange and the green.”

As to whether Sinn Fein would end up in government in the
Republic, Mr Adams said: “The position on that is that we
first of all have to get a mandate and if we get an agreed
programme of government which would include a strategy for
a united Ireland as well as radical measures to
redistribute the wealth of the Celtic tiger – then we would
go into government.

“It seems unlikely to me that the more conservative parties
would be prepared to sign up for the type of redistribution
of wealth that is required.”

Also, Mr Adams was asked if he thought the continuing
newspaper speculation particularly at the weekend about who
killed Denis Donaldson would in fact damage the political
process this year.

Mr Adams said: “No, I don’t think so. I don’t read papers
on a Sunday.”

:shock: :lol: Right On Gerry

Seabird · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 31 Location: Philadelphia

AKA,

You wrote: Funny, none of the Black women I've slept with have made that complaint, or any other kind of complaint. If you think I am a bigot, you should have heard my Grandmother. She didn't like the Germans, the Japanese or the Irish.
Maybe you are confusing racism with patriotism, or maybe your misinterpretation says more about your attitude than mine.

:lol: :lol: We all are a product of our environment so bringing your grandmother into the equation explains alot! So your references of catholics are words of patriotism to England? LOL I will say this one more time lets see if you and your coherts can comprehend that I do not represent a country just live in one, you do not know anything about me, so to assume is foolish. You have no idea whether I am black, white, irish, english, catholic, protestant so to attack me personally is fruitless in this debate. Debate the subject matter not it's messenger!

Oh and red dragon,

I stand 5'9 and weigh 145 lbs, this does not constitue a fat ass. LOL Oh and the yank reference was brilliant! Ignorance is bliss It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt. Touche

mulberrymagnet · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 158

Seabird wrote: AKA,

You wrote: Funny, none of the Black women I've slept with have made that complaint, or any other kind of complaint. If you think I am a bigot, you should have heard my Grandmother. She didn't like the Germans, the Japanese or the Irish.
Maybe you are confusing racism with patriotism, or maybe your misinterpretation says more about your attitude than mine.

:lol: :lol: We all are a product of our environment so bringing your grandmother into the equation explains alot! So your references of catholics are words of patriotism to England? LOL I will say this one more time lets see if you and your coherts can comprehend that I do not represent a country just live in one, you do not know anything about me, so to assume is foolish. You have no idea whether I am black, white, irish, english, catholic, protestant so to attack me personally is fruitless in this debate. Debate the subject matter not it's messenger!

Oh and red dragon,

I stand 5'9 and weigh 145 lbs, this does not constitue a fat ass. LOL Oh and the yank reference was brilliant! Ignorance is bliss It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt. Touche

:-|

red dragon · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1692 Location: Cardiff

Quote: Ignorance is bliss It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt. Touche

The actual quote is:

'Better to remain quiet and thought of as a fool than open your mouth and have it confirmed.'

Pity you don't follow your own advice.

So when will you get out of Hawaii and give it back to it's indigenous population?? Or for that fact the lands belonging to the likes of leonard Peltier??

hawaii indpendence

more independence

Seabird · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 31 Location: Philadelphia

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Abraham Lincoln

This is absolutely petty lets get back to the debate. It is a game of tit for tat, we could be here for days doing this. Insulting each other has accomplished nothing so please lets move beyond this.

red dragon · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1692 Location: Cardiff

Quote: So when will you get out of Hawaii and give it back to it's indigenous population?? Or for that fact the lands belonging to the likes of leonard Peltier??

hawaii indpendence

more independence

Seabird · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 31 Location: Philadelphia

red dragon,

This thread is about Donaldson, an incident in Ireland. If you would like to start a new thread on your post I will be more than happy to respond but I will not continue with this game you guys want to play. Once again I implore you to return to the topic of the thread.

red dragon · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1692 Location: Cardiff

It has everything to do with this thread, the US is in exactly the same position. It has a legacy from it's colonial days. Some people want to be independent in Hawaii. Whilst you lambast the Uk having NI as part of it's country your country is doing exactly the same thing with Hawaii, the difference is it's 2000 miles from your shores. In other words it's nowhere near your country, neither is Alaska. So I ask again, when are Americans going to hand back Hawaii to it's indigenous population, this was only a 130 years back, so it's no big deal is it??

Seabird · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 31 Location: Philadelphia

red dragon,

I work very closely with several Native organizations that fight for rights involving Native American issues and I support the movement in Hawaii and Puerto Rico so you are barking up the wrong tree. Jesse from the NYC office for a Free Hawaii is a very good friend of mine. How many events do you host for these people. I host numerous in all parts of the United States and work closely with the International Political Prisoners Movement. You do not know me nor what I am about so do not fault me but the government. When will this government give it all back, probably when hell freezes over. Sad but true, remember I only live here I DO NOT control this government.

I do fault this government just as I fault the british gov't. Occupation is occupation no matter where it is!

mulberrymagnet · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 158

Seabird,

The thread was about the politicians reaction to the murder of someone, by terrorists. If you want to start whining at people for going off thread, perhaps you shouldn't dilute your credibility with missives such as; <When will England get the fcuk out of the north of IRELAND and leave Ireland to the Irish! I am not meddling your flippin government is.>

You ARE a busy girl though aren't you? How do people manage without you? Here's a thought.. capture it, and hold it for just one moment. Ok, it goes something like this.. '..when you've sorted out your own country, then, if we're not developed enough to do it for ourselves, we'll be sure to give you a shout'.

Concentrate your endeavours in depth, and not width my dear.

red dragon · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1692 Location: Cardiff

Seabird wrote: red dragon,

I work very closely with several Native organizations that fight for rights involving Native American issues and I support the movement in Hawaii and Puerto Rico so you are barking up the wrong tree. Jesse from the NYC office for a Free Hawaii is a very good friend of mine. How many events do you host for these people. I host numerous in all parts of the United States and work closely with the International Political Prisoners Movement. You do not know me nor what I am about so do not fault me but the government. When will this government give it all back, probably when hell freezes over. Sad but true, remember I only live here I DO NOT control this government.

I do fault this government just as I fault the british gov't. Occupation is occupation no matter where it is!

Well since you have mentioned this and admitted it's out of your hands, I'll say the same demeaning thing to you. Get the fukc out of Hawaii and give it back to the people of Hawaii, see how easy it is to say that. At least the UK government has made massive inroads to securing peace within our time and even though the majority of the population want to stay British, we ar going against democratic principles trying to set up an Ireland that will transit to unity peacefully. I don't need morons like you, who do not practice what they preach within their own country, who have fully supported terrorism in the UK to achieve absolutely nothing except 3000 dead, mostly by the terrorists that they funded. Your a bunch of hypocrites, who's opinion on NI is worthless in the eyes of the British people and victims of sectarianism. We have a poster on here who lost a friend shot by the IRA on the weapon that shot this man was an inscription saying something on the lines 'to the boys for their freedom' and underneath was a name of a Chicago bar!! (I may have got part of that wrong MM, you can tell the story properly.)

It's all down to glassy eyed Irish Americans who haven't got a bloody clue how dangerous these sectarian gangs are. Gangs that trained hand in hand with American money with the PLO, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, probably the founding roots of Al Qaeda and recently FARC. Terrorist organisations which have learned their expertise from the IRA to commit atrocities against Americans, whether military or civilian in far flung corners of the world. You applaud Gerry Adams, a man who is extremely dangerous, masquerading as a politician but still on the army command of the IRA. He is a terrorist in sheep's clothing. For now he seems to be doing something to send the process forward, and De Bra is right the Unionists are a bunch of idiots.

This whole problem is a legacy from the reformation that swept through Europe 500 years ago, so if NI can't change their people in 500 years with religious intolerance, funded by Americans sipping beer in bars putting dollars into collection tins, what hope is there that these people are going to unite overnight??

So when America gives back Hawaii, then I'll take lessons from you on democracy and freedoms.

red dragon · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1692 Location: Cardiff

BTW the IRA are still very active within their own community shooting and killing is a way of life it seems.

12 April 2005 Joseph Rafferty (29) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: unknown
Shot dead outside his flat in the Ongar housing estate in west Dublin, Republic of Ireland . [It has been claimed by Rafferty’s family that he had been involved in a dispute with a family from south Dublin and was threatened on a number of occasions that he would be killed by the IRA. The person suspected of the killing is alleged to have been a former member of the IRA and is alleged to be a member of Sinn Féin.]

Seinn Fein eh!!! who would have believed it, just like those three members of Sinn Feinn who were expelled after the death of Robert macartney, but of course SF/IRA are not the same thing.

7 November 2005 Martin Conlon (35) Catholic
Status: ex-real Irish Republican Army (xrIRA)?, Killed by: Dissident Republican group?
Abducted from a house outside Armagh before being shot three times and his body dumped at Farnaloy Road near Keady, South Armagh. [Police speculated that the killing had been carried out by dissident republicans with whom he was believed to be linked.]

On top of this lot, it looks like an internal feud between the UVF has been going on as well, so as long as these terorists are shooting eachother, it may bring peace forward even quicker. :lol: :lol

3 June 2004 Kevin McAlorum (31) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: unknown
Shot dead outside Oakwood Integrated Primary School in Derriaghy, near Belfast. [There was speculation that the Irish National Liberation Army (INLA) may have been involved in the killing.]

12 March 2003 Keith Rogers (24) Catholic
Status: Irish Republican Army (IRA), Killed by: Irish Republican Army (IRA) ?
Shot dead in the village of Cullaville, County Armagh. [On 18 March 2003 the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) claimed the killing was the result of a feud between factions of the Irish Republican Army (IRA).]

17 August 2003 Daniel McGurk (35) Catholic
Status: Civilan (Civ), Killed by: "real" Irish Republican Army (rIRA)
Shot dead at his home in Ross Street in the lower Falls Road area of west Belfast.

11 May 2003 Gareth O'Connor (24) Catholic
Status: Civilan (Civ),
Disappeared while driving between his home in Armagh and Dundalk, Republic of Ireland. [His family claimed that the Provisional Irish Republican Army (PRIA) had abducted Gareth. The IRA denied any involvement in his disappearance. On 11 June 2005 O'Connor's body was discovered in his car which was in Newry Canal, County Down.]

11 October 2003 James McGinley (23) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Bartholomew Fisher
Stabbed during an attack in Little James Street, Derry. [On 3 March 2005 members of McGinley's family claimed that Bartholomew Fisher was a member of the IRA.]

21 February 2002 Matthew Burns (26) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Unknown
Shot dead while sitting in car in Castlewellan, County Down. [There were media reports of a suspected drugs link to the killing. There were also claims that Republican paramilitaries were responsible for the killing.]

1 August 2002 David Caldwell (51) Protestant
Status: Civilan (Civ), Killed by: "real" Irish Republican Army (rIRA)
Died when a booby trap bomb exploded at the Territorial Army base, Limavady Road, Derry.

17 April 2002 Barney McDonald (51) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Unknown
Taxi driver. Shot while sitting in his stationary car, outside a snooker club at Donaghmore, near Dungannon, County Tyrone. [There were claims that Republican paramilitaries were responsible for the killing.]

Looks like the IRA have been very busy De Bra, after all you haven't heard anything bad for 10 years you claimed, a quick search debunks that completly.

Seabird · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 31 Location: Philadelphia

You guys don't want to debate you want to insult. I'll just pop out and go debate people on a different thread this is ridiculous. You guys act like 5 year olds.

Mulberry,

Go back through this thread and just look at your responses then you will see exactly why I wrote to get the fcuk out of Ireland. You guys were not debating but slicing your opponent with criticism.

Ssushi · Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 6198

Oh please don't stop! This is soo entertaining :-D