Political Crossfire Forums

augustus kafka · Joined: 01 Mar 2006 Posts: 24

A bit of a philosophical idea, which is why I posted it here. Do you think it is possible at all to create a perfect country? One whose laws and systems regulate corruption, whose rulers are wise, without personal agendas?

Relating to that, also, is another question. If you could create a system to select the ruler of the country, what would this system be like?

I belive it is very possible to create a 'Perfect Country,' one that is resistant against corruption, poverty, and, most of all, time. A country whose laws would govern it so perfectly, that no internal problems could weaken it, or even arise.

I know this is a bit of an odd question, but it's an idea that I've been juggling around in my head for quite a while.

I think the key to this is history. I belive the main purpose of history, aside from knowing what our background is, is to learn from past events. To learn what types of governments failed, why they failed, and what could have prevented their collapse. I believe that the democratic system is the closest thing we've come to a perfect country so far. However, as we see with things like Tom DeLay in America, it is definitely not corruption proof. It can be argued that America could fall just as easily as the USSR, it just may take longer due to its democratic process and its unity.

So... 'Perfect country'. Possible? Not possible? Why? How?

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 8273

The perfect county would be no country at all. Anarchy would be the state of the nation, with no laws, or money, deterring the people from their freedoms. Any government that attempts to run itself autonomously will eventually distance itself form the people and fall prey to its own corruption. Liberty is something that we are all born with, but laws, government, and money only work to take that liberty away from us.

For all of you out there saying that that would never exist, you can find my explanations on how it can work here: www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37429&start=40

I just feel too lazy to type it all up again. 8-)

But I still stand by it. The perfect country would not be a country at all. There would be no government, and no laws to restrict the people form living their lives. True liberty is the ultimate destiny of mankind, and any government will only impede that destiny.

augustus kafka · Joined: 01 Mar 2006 Posts: 24

maybe. but what i'm worried about in that idea is that there would be no public schools, or anyone to protect me from crime, or things like that.

Misanthropy · Joined: 01 Apr 2006 Posts: 35

It is definately impossible to create a perfect country. As long as humans retain human tendencies it is quite futile for us to create such a perfect system. Corruption is present in almost all things. To create a perfect country we would need a perfect human, and one of those does not exist...i am pretty sure.

Luke · Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:49 pm Post subject:

Plato wrote a book on this called "The Republic". In it it says that the ruler of this country would have to be a philosopher king, but this is imposible because there aren't too many actual philosphers in history. Also, as Misanthropy stated, human's are not perfect and are; therefore, uncapable of making any perfect thing.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: A bit of a philosophical idea, which is why I posted it here. Do you think it is possible at all to create a perfect country? One whose laws and systems regulate corruption, whose rulers are wise, without personal agendas?

There's no such thing as a perfect country - perfect for whom? But the best would be: Ancapistan

http://home.arcor.de/danneskjoeld/index.htm

Quote: Plato wrote a book on this called "The Republic". In it it says that the ruler of this country would have to be a philosopher king, but this is imposible because there aren't too many actual philosphers in history.

Basically Plato wanted to be king...and Plato was one of the last people you'd want to be king (hardly suprising).

Quote: maybe. but what i'm worried about in that idea is that there would be no public schools, or anyone to protect me from crime, or things like that.

There'd be no state schools, if that's what you mean? There'd be no monopoly on 'protection' rackets either, and the problem?

garyd · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 691 Location: tulsa, ok

You cannot have a perfect country until such time as people become perfect. You cannot even begin to approach perfection unless you are omniscient, omnipresnt and omnipotent and only one or two won't do.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: unless you are omniscient, omnipresnt and omnipotent and only one or two won't do.

Damn....and I was thinking we were so close... :lol:

black noise · Joined: 30 Oct 2004 Posts: 354

I agree that the ideal (not perfect, perfect is impossible) country would be no country at all, an anarchist society based on freedom and peace.

augustus kafka wrote: maybe. but what i'm worried about in that idea is that there would be no public schools, or anyone to protect me from crime, or things like that.
There would be no state schools or private schools, but schools based on anarchist principles (freedom, equality, etc) would form regardless of a state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Skool
And you and your friends protect yourself from crime, however I believe in an anarchist society many of the causes of crime would no longer exist (black market, poverty, racism, etc) so crime would be a very small problem. I want you to make a list of common crimes and then think of the causes of them. I guarantee you that they are all from our current system and unhealthy society.

Magorion · Joined: 21 Apr 2006 Posts: 4684 Location: Celestial Teapot

Sure, a perfect country is possible. Just look at Norway... :lol:

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Magorion wrote: Sure, a perfect country is possible. Just look at Norway... :lol:

Just ask the Danes from whom you effectively stole half your oil/natural gas - the vast reserves of oil that has allowed you to avoid bankruptcy :lol:

Protostar · Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:57 am Post subject:

LostSoul3412 wrote: The perfect county would be no country at all. Anarchy would be the state of the nation, with no laws, or money, deterring the people from their freedoms. Any government that attempts to run itself autonomously will eventually distance itself form the people and fall prey to its own corruption. Liberty is something that we are all born with, but laws, government, and money only work to take that liberty away from us.

For all of you out there saying that that would never exist, you can find my explanations on how it can work here: www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37429&start=40

I just feel too lazy to type it all up again. 8-)

But I still stand by it. The perfect country would not be a country at all. There would be no government, and no laws to restrict the people form living their lives. True liberty is the ultimate destiny of mankind, and any government will only impede that destiny.

:clap::clap: Completely agree.

Iandefor · Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 55

It really depends on the kinds of policies implemented. They need to be airtight. There also needs to be a population that won't lie down and get ruined by whomever has the power.

DevilMan · Joined: 02 May 2006 Posts: 169 Location: Pennsylvania

To design a perfect country is a fun topic to play with. Of course we can all see the fun in Anarchy. I used to be an Anarchist myself... Getting to do what you want, when you want, how you want. The idea is good but Anarchy only last for short periods of time. Eventually a group bands together and oppresses people, people band together for protection from oppression, thus government is established again. To create a country with no corruption, no crime, no disputes is a dark grim thing. A wise all seeing ruler? Sounds to me like a robot. But until the Internet develops to a point that it develops a conscious and takes over the world, we will never no the joy of being totally controlled.

Sure sure this sounds like the matrix a bit but government flaws and wrongness in the world is where fun comes from. Perfection is equality correct? The universe is a equation balancing itself out. Perfection is a stand still. Perfection is not having freedom. I'd rather have a government that is not perfect than have one that isn't free... That's why I love George Bush! :lol:

Kumar · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 15543 Location: Toronto

DevilMan wrote: To design a perfect country is a fun topic to play with. Of course we can all see the fun in Anarchy. I used to be an Anarchist myself... Getting to do what you want, when you want, how you want. The idea is good but Anarchy only last for short periods of time. Eventually a group bands together and oppresses people, people band together for protection from oppression, thus government is established again. To create a country with no corruption, no crime, no disputes is a dark grim thing. A wise all seeing ruler? Sounds to me like a robot. But until the Internet develops to a point that it develops a conscious and takes over the world, we will never no the joy of being totally controlled.

Sure sure this sounds like the matrix a bit but government flaws and wrongness in the world is where fun comes from. Perfection is equality correct? The universe is a equation balancing itself out. Perfection is a stand still. Perfection is not having freedom. I'd rather have a government that is not perfect than have one that isn't free... That's why I love George Bush! :lol:
Yup, you've effectively outlined the problems with anarchism. There is an inequality of means, and those who are able WILL consolidate power. The absence of any regulation or laws to hinder them would only make it easier for them to literally enslave those who cannot defend themselves. It is essentially overthrowing liberal democracy/republics for a dictatorship. And then you have some anarchists who advocate forced redistribution of wealth and land (ie. private property is illegal), not even seeing the contradiction between this and the establishment of a supposedly "free" system.
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As for me, the perfect system is a type of benevolent dictatorship. Of course, this is just a fantasy, as there is no way to guarantee that the leader will act in the best interests of the people.

BastionOfSanity · Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject:

Perfect country??
Oxymoron.

Gregolian · Joined: 19 Oct 2005 Posts: 138 Location: Bellingham

LostSoul3412 wrote: The perfect county would be no country at all. Anarchy would be the state of the nation, with no laws, or money, deterring the people from their freedoms. Any government that attempts to run itself autonomously will eventually distance itself form the people and fall prey to its own corruption. Liberty is something that we are all born with, but laws, government, and money only work to take that liberty away from us.

For all of you out there saying that that would never exist, you can find my explanations on how it can work here: www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37429&start=40

I just feel too lazy to type it all up again. 8-)

But I still stand by it. The perfect country would not be a country at all. There would be no government, and no laws to restrict the people form living their lives. True liberty is the ultimate destiny of mankind, and any government will only impede that destiny.

i would have to agree.... having no laws would be a good thing... everyone would then just take care of themselves....

DevilMan · Joined: 02 May 2006 Posts: 169 Location: Pennsylvania

The point is that humans are animals. Humans are pack animals to be more accurate. An world with no laws is apealing but its impossible. There are three theories of Anarchy. One is where the weak band together and over power the strong. The secound is where the strong opress the weak. And the third is chaos theory. The reason government establishes is because people need security. They need to feel that some one has their back or some one wants something from another person and forces it out of them, chaos theory would never work for long. Rules establish and peopl are back to government, probobly a worse one than befor. I would love to think that a world with no laws could exist, but in order for there to be disorder every one would have to cooperate and agree on a lawless world, and an agreement of the people IS the absence of anarchy. I love the idea. I think it would be fun, but it just can't realisticly happen.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: The point is that humans are animals. Humans are pack animals to be more accurate. An world with no laws is apealing but its impossible.

Do pack animals have laws?

Quote: There are three theories of Anarchy. One is where the weak band together and over power the strong. The secound is where the strong opress the weak. And the third is chaos theory. The reason government establishes is because people need security.

Or we could just get rid of the state and operate in a way not dissimilar to now....

Quote: but in order for there to be disorder every one would have to cooperate and agree on a lawless world,

You can have anything if everyone seriously agrees about everything....but that is NEVER going to happen.

DevilMan · Joined: 02 May 2006 Posts: 169 Location: Pennsylvania

I do not understand the nature of your question "Do pack animals have laws?" The short answer is yes. Pack animals do have laws. They are primitive and unconcrete but they are laws none the less. There is usually and alfa male that dominates the pack and directs them, similar to a president or dictator, if the alfa is unfit for the job or weak a member of the pack will assume command, similar to an impeachment. Animals do have laws and that is the point, humans are animals and as animals fell compelled to have order in their lives. Anarchists would be more like a rouge wolf, a wolf cast out of the pack either by choice or force. He needs no government, no law, he favors disorder, the fact that these rouge animals exist is proof that anarchists are a natural occurrence in an orderly society but they are not in enough quantity to change much about it.