Political Crossfire Forums

[xsuite]

Has anyone heard about implanting RFID chips into peoples' wrists, so that they can buy things with their credit account?

I heard that this could be the mark of the beast.

All input is accepted. Let us discuss.

[cap'n queasy]

Well, that type of chip would have YOUR number. The Mark of the Beast is more like a brand on cattle IMHO. It's the Mark OF the Beast.

That's not to say these RFID's wouldn't be a part of a Satanic world empire. They definitely would make it easy to control who could function in the economy and who could not, which is a key point.

There's some interesting passages concerning marks and their placement in the scriptures that can give us some clues about just what this may mean.

Leviticus chapter 13
Job 36:32
Ps 37:37
Ps 130:3
Ezekiel Chapter 9
Ezekiel Chapter 21
Ezekiel Chapter 44
Genesis Chapter 48
Mt 27:29

And of course Zecariah 11.

Check this out and see what you find.

[mgwisni]

I've never really understood this topic. I read one of the Left Behind books when I was a freshman in high school so I've always thought it occured near the end of the world.

[cap'n queasy]

Here's an overview.

It is something that occurs after the time of the fullness of the Gentiles has come in (Romans 11:25). Or basically speaking, the end of the world as we know it will happen after this fullness is achieved, then the Holy Spirit will be taken up out of the earth (2 Thessalonians 2). This will happen just before the time of Jacob's trouble, the Great Tribulation, when YHWH pours out His wrath on those who dwell on the earth (Revelation 6). The Millennium will still be yet to come, after the destruction of Satan's rule on earth and his being bound in the Abyss. (Revelation 19, 20).

Read these chapters and that should help you understand more about it.

[mgwisni]

cap'n queasy wrote: Here's an overview.

It is something that occurs after the time of the fullness of the Gentiles has come in (Romans 11:25). Or basically speaking, the end of the world as we know it will happen after this fullness is achieved, then the Holy Spirit will be taken up out of the earth (2 Thessalonians 2). This will happen just before the time of Jacob's trouble, the Great Tribulation, when YHWH pours out His wrath on those who dwell on the earth (Revelation 6). The Millennium will still be yet to come, after the destruction of Satan's rule on earth and his being bound in the Abyss. (Revelation 19, 20).

Read these chapters and that should help you understand more about it.
Ah, thank you.

[connermt]

Some historians believe the MotB was 666, some believe that was misinterperted & is actually 616 (both considered the Jewish numerical equivalent of Nero) other believe something totally different.
There is a company on the west coast (I believe) that is testing some of their employees by putting a chip under their skin to use as an employee badge to get into the building & clock in, etc.
Vets have been using chips in pets for a couple years - was only a matter of time before it made its way into people. But people have been 'numbers' for years (social sec #, employee ID #s for work, DL numbers, license plate numbers, etc).
Some people get all freaked out: "AH!!! The Mark of the Beast!!" others don't see it that way. I would be more concerned with nanotechnology than a chip personally
Good ole' technology....

[Todd D.]

Meh, some other things people thought are/were the mark of the beast:
-Gutenberg Printing Press
-Social Security Cards
-Online Screennames (In original Online Services like CompuServe and Prodigy, you had numbers rather than names)
-Security Badges
-Tattoos in general, but especially in Nazi Germany (and, while terrible, obviously did not bring about Armageddon)
-Nelson Mandella's Cell number while in Prison
-UPC Codes

So, really, predicting the "Mark of the Beast" as a means by which to oppose technological advancement seems a little stupid to me. There are plenty of really good reasons to oppose Commercial BioChips, however.

[superchick]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6237364/


WASHINGTON - Medical milestone or privacy invasion? A tiny computer chip approved Wednesday for implantation in a patient’s arm can speed vital information about a patient’s medical history to doctors and hospitals. But critics warn that it could open new ways to imperil the confidentiality of medical records.

The Food and Drug Administration said Wednesday that Applied Digital Solutions of Delray Beach, Fla., could market the VeriChip, an implantable computer chip about the size of a grain of rice, for medical purposes.

With the pinch of a syringe, the microchip is inserted under the skin in a procedure that takes less than 20 minutes and leaves no stitches. Silently and invisibly, the dormant chip stores a code that releases patient-specific information when a scanner passes over it.
Think UPC code. The identifier, emblazoned on a food item, brings up its name and price on the cashier’s screen.

Chip's dual uses raise alarm
The VeriChip itself contains no medical records, just codes that can be scanned, and revealed, in a doctor’s office or hospital. With that code, the health providers can unlock that portion of a secure database that holds that person’s medical information, including allergies and prior treatment. The electronic database, not the chip, would be updated with each medical visit.

The microchips have already been implanted in 1 million pets. But the chip’s possible dual use for tracking people’s movements — as well as speeding delivery of their medical information to emergency rooms — has raised alarm.

“If privacy protections aren’t built in at the outset, there could be harmful consequences for patients,” said Emily Stewart, a policy analyst at the Health Privacy Project.

To protect patient privacy, the devices should reveal only vital medical information, like blood type and allergic reactions, needed for health care workers to do their jobs, Stewart said.

An information technology guru at Detroit Medical Center, however, sees the benefits of the devices and will lobby for his center’s inclusion in a VeriChip pilot program.

“One of the big problems in health care has been the medical records situation. So much of it is still on paper,” said David Ellis, the center’s chief futurist and co-founder of the Michigan Electronic Medical Records Initiative.

'Part of the future of medicine'
As “medically mobile” patients visit specialists for care, their records fragment on computer systems that don’t talk to each other.

“It’s part of the future of medicine to have these kinds of technologies that make life simpler for the patient,” Ellis said. Pushing for the strongest encryption algorithms to ensure hackers can’t nab medical data as information transfers from chip to reader to secure database, will help address privacy concerns, he said.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services on Wednesday announced $139 million in grants to help make real President Bush’s push for electronic health records for most Americans within a decade.

William A. Pierce, an HHS spokesman, could not say whether VeriChip and its accompanying secure database of medical records fit within that initiative.

“Exactly what those technologies are is still to be sorted out,” Pierce said. “It all has to respect and comport with the privacy rules.”

Applied Digital gave away scanners to a few hundred animal shelters and veterinary clinics when it first entered the pet market 15 years ago. Now, 50,000 such scanners have been sold.

To kickstart the chip’s use among humans, Applied Digital will provide $650 scanners for free at 200 of the nation’s trauma centers.

Implantation costs $150 to $200
In pets, installing the chip runs about $50. For humans, the chip implantation cost would be $150 to $200, said Angela Fulcher, an Applied Digital spokeswoman.

Fulcher could not say whether the cost of data storage and encrypted transmission of medical information would be passed to providers.

Because the VeriChip is invisible, it’s also unclear how health care workers would know which unconscious patients to scan. Company officials say if the chip use becomes routine, scanning triceps for hidden chips would become second nature at hospitals.

Ultimately, the company hopes patients who suffer from such ailments as diabetes and Alzheimer’s or who undergo complex treatments, like chemotherapy, would have chips implanted. If the procedure proves as popular for use in humans as in pets, that could mean up to 1 million chips implanted in people. So far, just 1,000 people across the globe have had the devices implanted, very few of them in the United States.

The company’s chief executive officer, Scott R. Silverman, is one of a half dozen executives who had chips implanted. Silverman said chips implanted for medical uses could also be used for security purposes, like tracking employee movement through nuclear power plants.

Such security uses are rare in the United States.

Meanwhile, the chip has been used for pure whimsy: Club hoppers in Barcelona, Spain, now use the microchip to enter a VIP area and, through links to a different database, speed payment much like a smartcard.

[connermt]

Todd D. wrote: Meh, some other things people thought are/were the mark of the beast:
-Gutenberg Printing Press
-Social Security Cards
-Online Screennames (In original Online Services like CompuServe and Prodigy, you had numbers rather than names)
-Security Badges
-Tattoos in general, but especially in Nazi Germany (and, while terrible, obviously did not bring about Armageddon)
-Nelson Mandella's Cell number while in Prison
-UPC Codes

So, really, predicting the "Mark of the Beast" as a means by which to oppose technological advancement seems a little stupid to me. There are plenty of really good reasons to oppose Commercial BioChips, however.

Oh I agree. You can find anything you want if you look hard enough, right?!?
And it isn't so much the TECHNOLOGY that frightens me, it is what people will do with it. It amazes me how people can take something so innocent & well intentioned & turn it into something bad
Sad really

[cap'n queasy]

superchick wrote: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6237364/


WASHINGTON - Medical milestone or privacy invasion? A tiny computer chip approved Wednesday for implantation in a patient’s arm can speed vital information about a patient’s medical history to doctors and hospitals. But critics warn that it could open new ways to imperil the confidentiality of medical records.

The Food and Drug Administration said Wednesday that Applied Digital Solutions of Delray Beach, Fla., could market the VeriChip, an implantable computer chip about the size of a grain of rice, for medical purposes.

With the pinch of a syringe, the microchip is inserted under the skin in a procedure that takes less than 20 minutes and leaves no stitches. Silently and invisibly, the dormant chip stores a code that releases patient-specific information when a scanner passes over it.
Think UPC code. The identifier, emblazoned on a food item, brings up its name and price on the cashier’s screen.

Chip's dual uses raise alarm
The VeriChip itself contains no medical records, just codes that can be scanned, and revealed, in a doctor’s office or hospital. With that code, the health providers can unlock that portion of a secure database that holds that person’s medical information, including allergies and prior treatment. The electronic database, not the chip, would be updated with each medical visit.

The microchips have already been implanted in 1 million pets. But the chip’s possible dual use for tracking people’s movements — as well as speeding delivery of their medical information to emergency rooms — has raised alarm.

“If privacy protections aren’t built in at the outset, there could be harmful consequences for patients,” said Emily Stewart, a policy analyst at the Health Privacy Project.

To protect patient privacy, the devices should reveal only vital medical information, like blood type and allergic reactions, needed for health care workers to do their jobs, Stewart said.

An information technology guru at Detroit Medical Center, however, sees the benefits of the devices and will lobby for his center’s inclusion in a VeriChip pilot program.

“One of the big problems in health care has been the medical records situation. So much of it is still on paper,” said David Ellis, the center’s chief futurist and co-founder of the Michigan Electronic Medical Records Initiative.

'Part of the future of medicine'
As “medically mobile” patients visit specialists for care, their records fragment on computer systems that don’t talk to each other.

“It’s part of the future of medicine to have these kinds of technologies that make life simpler for the patient,” Ellis said. Pushing for the strongest encryption algorithms to ensure hackers can’t nab medical data as information transfers from chip to reader to secure database, will help address privacy concerns, he said.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services on Wednesday announced $139 million in grants to help make real President Bush’s push for electronic health records for most Americans within a decade.

William A. Pierce, an HHS spokesman, could not say whether VeriChip and its accompanying secure database of medical records fit within that initiative.

“Exactly what those technologies are is still to be sorted out,” Pierce said. “It all has to respect and comport with the privacy rules.”

Applied Digital gave away scanners to a few hundred animal shelters and veterinary clinics when it first entered the pet market 15 years ago. Now, 50,000 such scanners have been sold.

To kickstart the chip’s use among humans, Applied Digital will provide $650 scanners for free at 200 of the nation’s trauma centers.

Implantation costs $150 to $200
In pets, installing the chip runs about $50. For humans, the chip implantation cost would be $150 to $200, said Angela Fulcher, an Applied Digital spokeswoman.

Fulcher could not say whether the cost of data storage and encrypted transmission of medical information would be passed to providers.

Because the VeriChip is invisible, it’s also unclear how health care workers would know which unconscious patients to scan. Company officials say if the chip use becomes routine, scanning triceps for hidden chips would become second nature at hospitals.

Ultimately, the company hopes patients who suffer from such ailments as diabetes and Alzheimer’s or who undergo complex treatments, like chemotherapy, would have chips implanted. If the procedure proves as popular for use in humans as in pets, that could mean up to 1 million chips implanted in people. So far, just 1,000 people across the globe have had the devices implanted, very few of them in the United States.

The company’s chief executive officer, Scott R. Silverman, is one of a half dozen executives who had chips implanted. Silverman said chips implanted for medical uses could also be used for security purposes, like tracking employee movement through nuclear power plants.

Such security uses are rare in the United States.

Meanwhile, the chip has been used for pure whimsy: Club hoppers in Barcelona, Spain, now use the microchip to enter a VIP area and, through links to a different database, speed payment much like a smartcard.

Welcome to the future of mankind.

[connermt]

superchick wrote: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6237364/


WASHINGTON - Medical milestone or privacy invasion? A tiny computer chip approved Wednesday for implantation in a patient’s arm can speed vital information about a patient’s medical history to doctors and hospitals. But critics warn that it could open new ways to imperil the confidentiality of medical records.

The Food and Drug Administration said Wednesday that Applied Digital Solutions of Delray Beach, Fla., could market the VeriChip, an implantable computer chip about the size of a grain of rice, for medical purposes.

With the pinch of a syringe, the microchip is inserted under the skin in a procedure that takes less than 20 minutes and leaves no stitches. Silently and invisibly, the dormant chip stores a code that releases patient-specific information when a scanner passes over it.
Think UPC code. The identifier, emblazoned on a food item, brings up its name and price on the cashier’s screen.

Chip's dual uses raise alarm
The VeriChip itself contains no medical records, just codes that can be scanned, and revealed, in a doctor’s office or hospital. With that code, the health providers can unlock that portion of a secure database that holds that person’s medical information, including allergies and prior treatment. The electronic database, not the chip, would be updated with each medical visit.

The microchips have already been implanted in 1 million pets. But the chip’s possible dual use for tracking people’s movements — as well as speeding delivery of their medical information to emergency rooms — has raised alarm.

“If privacy protections aren’t built in at the outset, there could be harmful consequences for patients,” said Emily Stewart, a policy analyst at the Health Privacy Project.

To protect patient privacy, the devices should reveal only vital medical information, like blood type and allergic reactions, needed for health care workers to do their jobs, Stewart said.

An information technology guru at Detroit Medical Center, however, sees the benefits of the devices and will lobby for his center’s inclusion in a VeriChip pilot program.

“One of the big problems in health care has been the medical records situation. So much of it is still on paper,” said David Ellis, the center’s chief futurist and co-founder of the Michigan Electronic Medical Records Initiative.

'Part of the future of medicine'
As “medically mobile” patients visit specialists for care, their records fragment on computer systems that don’t talk to each other.

“It’s part of the future of medicine to have these kinds of technologies that make life simpler for the patient,” Ellis said. Pushing for the strongest encryption algorithms to ensure hackers can’t nab medical data as information transfers from chip to reader to secure database, will help address privacy concerns, he said.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services on Wednesday announced $139 million in grants to help make real President Bush’s push for electronic health records for most Americans within a decade.

William A. Pierce, an HHS spokesman, could not say whether VeriChip and its accompanying secure database of medical records fit within that initiative.

“Exactly what those technologies are is still to be sorted out,” Pierce said. “It all has to respect and comport with the privacy rules.”

Applied Digital gave away scanners to a few hundred animal shelters and veterinary clinics when it first entered the pet market 15 years ago. Now, 50,000 such scanners have been sold.

To kickstart the chip’s use among humans, Applied Digital will provide $650 scanners for free at 200 of the nation’s trauma centers.

Implantation costs $150 to $200
In pets, installing the chip runs about $50. For humans, the chip implantation cost would be $150 to $200, said Angela Fulcher, an Applied Digital spokeswoman.

Fulcher could not say whether the cost of data storage and encrypted transmission of medical information would be passed to providers.

Because the VeriChip is invisible, it’s also unclear how health care workers would know which unconscious patients to scan. Company officials say if the chip use becomes routine, scanning triceps for hidden chips would become second nature at hospitals.

Ultimately, the company hopes patients who suffer from such ailments as diabetes and Alzheimer’s or who undergo complex treatments, like chemotherapy, would have chips implanted. If the procedure proves as popular for use in humans as in pets, that could mean up to 1 million chips implanted in people. So far, just 1,000 people across the globe have had the devices implanted, very few of them in the United States.

The company’s chief executive officer, Scott R. Silverman, is one of a half dozen executives who had chips implanted. Silverman said chips implanted for medical uses could also be used for security purposes, like tracking employee movement through nuclear power plants.

Such security uses are rare in the United States.

Meanwhile, the chip has been used for pure whimsy: Club hoppers in Barcelona, Spain, now use the microchip to enter a VIP area and, through links to a different database, speed payment much like a smartcard.

The more technologically advance we get, the less privacy we seem to have.

[connermt]

cap'n queasy wrote: superchick wrote: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6237364/


WASHINGTON - Medical milestone or privacy invasion? A tiny computer chip approved Wednesday for implantation in a patient’s arm can speed vital information about a patient’s medical history to doctors and hospitals. But critics warn that it could open new ways to imperil the confidentiality of medical records.

The Food and Drug Administration said Wednesday that Applied Digital Solutions of Delray Beach, Fla., could market the VeriChip, an implantable computer chip about the size of a grain of rice, for medical purposes.

With the pinch of a syringe, the microchip is inserted under the skin in a procedure that takes less than 20 minutes and leaves no stitches. Silently and invisibly, the dormant chip stores a code that releases patient-specific information when a scanner passes over it.
Think UPC code. The identifier, emblazoned on a food item, brings up its name and price on the cashier’s screen.

Chip's dual uses raise alarm
The VeriChip itself contains no medical records, just codes that can be scanned, and revealed, in a doctor’s office or hospital. With that code, the health providers can unlock that portion of a secure database that holds that person’s medical information, including allergies and prior treatment. The electronic database, not the chip, would be updated with each medical visit.

The microchips have already been implanted in 1 million pets. But the chip’s possible dual use for tracking people’s movements — as well as speeding delivery of their medical information to emergency rooms — has raised alarm.

“If privacy protections aren’t built in at the outset, there could be harmful consequences for patients,” said Emily Stewart, a policy analyst at the Health Privacy Project.

To protect patient privacy, the devices should reveal only vital medical information, like blood type and allergic reactions, needed for health care workers to do their jobs, Stewart said.

An information technology guru at Detroit Medical Center, however, sees the benefits of the devices and will lobby for his center’s inclusion in a VeriChip pilot program.

“One of the big problems in health care has been the medical records situation. So much of it is still on paper,” said David Ellis, the center’s chief futurist and co-founder of the Michigan Electronic Medical Records Initiative.

'Part of the future of medicine'
As “medically mobile” patients visit specialists for care, their records fragment on computer systems that don’t talk to each other.

“It’s part of the future of medicine to have these kinds of technologies that make life simpler for the patient,” Ellis said. Pushing for the strongest encryption algorithms to ensure hackers can’t nab medical data as information transfers from chip to reader to secure database, will help address privacy concerns, he said.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services on Wednesday announced $139 million in grants to help make real President Bush’s push for electronic health records for most Americans within a decade.

William A. Pierce, an HHS spokesman, could not say whether VeriChip and its accompanying secure database of medical records fit within that initiative.

“Exactly what those technologies are is still to be sorted out,” Pierce said. “It all has to respect and comport with the privacy rules.”

Applied Digital gave away scanners to a few hundred animal shelters and veterinary clinics when it first entered the pet market 15 years ago. Now, 50,000 such scanners have been sold.

To kickstart the chip’s use among humans, Applied Digital will provide $650 scanners for free at 200 of the nation’s trauma centers.

Implantation costs $150 to $200
In pets, installing the chip runs about $50. For humans, the chip implantation cost would be $150 to $200, said Angela Fulcher, an Applied Digital spokeswoman.

Fulcher could not say whether the cost of data storage and encrypted transmission of medical information would be passed to providers.

Because the VeriChip is invisible, it’s also unclear how health care workers would know which unconscious patients to scan. Company officials say if the chip use becomes routine, scanning triceps for hidden chips would become second nature at hospitals.

Ultimately, the company hopes patients who suffer from such ailments as diabetes and Alzheimer’s or who undergo complex treatments, like chemotherapy, would have chips implanted. If the procedure proves as popular for use in humans as in pets, that could mean up to 1 million chips implanted in people. So far, just 1,000 people across the globe have had the devices implanted, very few of them in the United States.

The company’s chief executive officer, Scott R. Silverman, is one of a half dozen executives who had chips implanted. Silverman said chips implanted for medical uses could also be used for security purposes, like tracking employee movement through nuclear power plants.

Such security uses are rare in the United States.

Meanwhile, the chip has been used for pure whimsy: Club hoppers in Barcelona, Spain, now use the microchip to enter a VIP area and, through links to a different database, speed payment much like a smartcard.

Welcome to the future of mankind.

Human & machine becoming one - kinda' frightening... :shifty:

[Todd D.]

Quote: Human & machine becoming one - kinda' frightening...
Tell that to someone with a pacemaker.

[connermt]

Todd D. wrote: Quote: Human & machine becoming one - kinda' frightening...
Tell that to someone with a pacemaker.


Or an artifical limb, or hearing implants, etc etc etc.
How about artifical intelligence?
Any technology in the wrong hands is frightening, no matter how innocent it starts out.

[feederband]

Todd D. wrote: Quote: Human & machine becoming one - kinda' frightening...
Tell that to someone with a pacemaker.

Like my self... I have a Defibulator too..Already saved my life twice...

[connermt]

feederband wrote: Todd D. wrote: Quote: Human & machine becoming one - kinda' frightening...
Tell that to someone with a pacemaker.

Like my self... I have a Defibulator too..Already saved my life twice...
Advances like yours are great - no doubt
Absolutely amazing on how they work & their developement
The problem is when people go crazy with them for their own agenda w/o regard to how it would effect others.

[feederband]

connermt wrote: feederband wrote: Todd D. wrote: Quote: Human & machine becoming one - kinda' frightening...
Tell that to someone with a pacemaker.

Like my self... I have a Defibulator too..Already saved my life twice...
Advances like yours are great - no doubt
Absolutely amazing on how they work & their developement
The problem is when people go crazy with them for their own agenda w/o regard to how it would effect others.

Yes it is kind of weird have a high tech gadget in my chest monitoring everything my heart does...In a blink of a eye it will notice a fatal arrhythmia and zap me with 880 volts to correct the beat... Its like having EMS with me 24/7...Without it --it would take too long for EMS to get there..

[connermt]

feederband wrote: connermt wrote: feederband wrote: Todd D. wrote: Quote: Human & machine becoming one - kinda' frightening...
Tell that to someone with a pacemaker.

Like my self... I have a Defibulator too..Already saved my life twice...
Advances like yours are great - no doubt
Absolutely amazing on how they work & their developement
The problem is when people go crazy with them for their own agenda w/o regard to how it would effect others.

Yes it is kind of weird have a high tech gadget in my chest monitoring everything my heart does...In a blink of a eye it will notice a fatal arrhythmia and zap me with 880 volts to correct the beat... Its like having EMS with me 24/7...Without it --it would take too long for EMS to get there..
I know a couple people with artificial valves in their chests. Not as advnaced as a pacemaker, but you canhear them ticking like a watch.

[thebreadloaf2003]

xsuite wrote: Has anyone heard about implanting RFID chips into peoples' wrists, so that they can buy things with their credit account?

I heard that this could be the mark of the beast.

All input is accepted. Let us discuss.

ah you saw that special about the anti-christ on history channel too. it was good.

personaly i think it is a tactic being used by the government to watch us as closely as possible...-_-...but avast that is for the conspiracies forum

i dont see how biblical entries written way back when could have any assertion to modern day advances such as a wrist chip. Because i am pretty sure the bible was not written with any knowledge on the brink of anybodies imagine of someday having semicondctor silicon chips being implanted into a persons wrist.

[garyd]

The Mark of the beast is not a mark upon your flesh but rather an attitude of the heart.