Political Crossfire Forums

[DSwain]

superskippy wrote: Yes but the last vestige of the policy didnt get overturned until 1983 which encouraged the immigration and relocation of white british nationals.

Also being a history buff myself I cant help but consider anything from 1945 and later recent history. :lol:

Though even for average people I think they'd consider something that was 20-30 years ago recent history.

Well I feel younger because of that!

[Bubbles]

Blinky wrote: Several days have passed and the rationale has not appeared. Perhaps people have done their research and decided to withdraw their pointing fingers.

Oh I do apologise...I don't come here every day.

Exactly what rationale are you looking for again?

[Bubbles]

Blinky wrote: Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Has anyone ever been to Eastern Europe? Gypsies and anyone not an ethnic local is generally treated like s**t.
I can't say that the same doesn't happen here, but it is far less widespread or as deeply ingrained as it is in some parts of the world.
Racism exists everywhere, as has been said, but Australia is not a racist country as a whole, in my experience.
Anyone who thinks so should visit parts of the world where racism is rampant to get a good dose of perspective.

Blinky...as a person of ethnic background (although born and raised in Australia) and having travelled extensively, I can safely conclude that we are a racist country. I see it first hand daily. I have travelled to nearly every country in Europe as well as Asia, Africa and the US.

Yes there is racism everywhere but that is not what this thread is about. It specifically asks if Australia is a racist country. NOT is it the most racist country....I don't think anyone could argue with certainty that we ARE the most racist. Our biggest problem with racism is towards our indigenous folk. I see that daily as I live in an area that is heavily populated by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.

When my father first arrived in Australia as a refugee from strife torn Croatia, he was welcomed wholeheartedly.

Now when we see a boat load of refugees we detain them illegally and label them because of their religion and beliefs. We are one of the worst performers when it comes to how we treat immigrants and refugees.

Racist??? Indeed.

If ALL countries are racists, then asking if Australia is as well is pretty pointless isn't it? ALL countries.

The point is to see how racist Australia is in the scheme of things. That's why I tried to add some perspective.
I am also first generation Australian, my parents also fled from war-torn parts of Europe, I have also travelled extensively. It doesn't make either of us experts, it merely facilitates us passing slighter broader opinions.

You can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation. When my parents migrated to Australia, they were most certainly not welcome with open arms - but they kept their heads down, worked their fingers to the bone, and contributed in a positive way without the assistance of any kind of social welfare (it wasn't available). They were just stoked that they had gotten out of Europe.

Blinky...no you can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation...thank you for making my point. Europeans were sponsored to live and work in Australia...they still are. Why not middle eastern people? Present day refugees don't even get a chance to prove themselves "worthy". They are shunted to an offshore island and detained....so you are right...this does not equate to how YOUR parents and my father were treated at all. Australia is the ONLY country that detains refugees automatically...what does that tell you about how welcoming we are to immigrants?

[DSwain]

Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Has anyone ever been to Eastern Europe? Gypsies and anyone not an ethnic local is generally treated like s**t.
I can't say that the same doesn't happen here, but it is far less widespread or as deeply ingrained as it is in some parts of the world.
Racism exists everywhere, as has been said, but Australia is not a racist country as a whole, in my experience.
Anyone who thinks so should visit parts of the world where racism is rampant to get a good dose of perspective.

Blinky...as a person of ethnic background (although born and raised in Australia) and having travelled extensively, I can safely conclude that we are a racist country. I see it first hand daily. I have travelled to nearly every country in Europe as well as Asia, Africa and the US.

Yes there is racism everywhere but that is not what this thread is about. It specifically asks if Australia is a racist country. NOT is it the most racist country....I don't think anyone could argue with certainty that we ARE the most racist. Our biggest problem with racism is towards our indigenous folk. I see that daily as I live in an area that is heavily populated by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.

When my father first arrived in Australia as a refugee from strife torn Croatia, he was welcomed wholeheartedly.

Now when we see a boat load of refugees we detain them illegally and label them because of their religion and beliefs. We are one of the worst performers when it comes to how we treat immigrants and refugees.

Racist??? Indeed.

If ALL countries are racists, then asking if Australia is as well is pretty pointless isn't it? ALL countries.

The point is to see how racist Australia is in the scheme of things. That's why I tried to add some perspective.
I am also first generation Australian, my parents also fled from war-torn parts of Europe, I have also travelled extensively. It doesn't make either of us experts, it merely facilitates us passing slighter broader opinions.

You can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation. When my parents migrated to Australia, they were most certainly not welcome with open arms - but they kept their heads down, worked their fingers to the bone, and contributed in a positive way without the assistance of any kind of social welfare (it wasn't available). They were just stoked that they had gotten out of Europe.

Blinky...no you can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation...thank you for making my point. Europeans were sponsored to live and work in Australia...they still are. Why not middle eastern people? Present day refugees don't even get a chance to prove themselves "worthy". They are shunted to an offshore island and detained....so you are right...this does not equate to how YOUR parents and my father were treated at all. Australia is the ONLY country that detains refugees automatically...what does that tell you about how welcoming we are to immigrants?

The way nations deal with refugees and immigrants is quite different. An immigrant is someone who has the time and resources to apply for residency in another country and makes that application while in his home country. Such immigration is primarily for economic reasons and the prospective host nation is able to terminate the application process at any time. A refugee is often unable to apply for asylum in a second country because of the situation in which he finds himself. The first the host country will know of a refugee is when he presents himself at an entry point. So, that Australia automatically detains refugees has no bearing whatsoever on the reception provided to legal immigrants.

The majority of nations that do not follow Australian policy on compulsory detention of refugees do so purely for economic reasons. Personally I see no problem with such detention and I wish we would have a similar policy in the UK. If I as a refugee am fleeing a "...well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion..." then I would have no problem with awaiting the decision of my prospective host country in only very moderate discomfort. Refugees in Australian reception centres are housed, fed and provided with medical attention. The only possible criticism I could level at the Australian system is that it could be faster - but that problem is universal to immigration and asylum systems worldwide.

BTW - how are Europeans sponsored to immigrate to Australia? Ie, how are we treated substantially differently from potential immigrants from other regions of the world? I don't believe that we are but if I am misinformed I would love to know about it!

[Blinky]

Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Has anyone ever been to Eastern Europe? Gypsies and anyone not an ethnic local is generally treated like s**t.
I can't say that the same doesn't happen here, but it is far less widespread or as deeply ingrained as it is in some parts of the world.
Racism exists everywhere, as has been said, but Australia is not a racist country as a whole, in my experience.
Anyone who thinks so should visit parts of the world where racism is rampant to get a good dose of perspective.

Blinky...as a person of ethnic background (although born and raised in Australia) and having travelled extensively, I can safely conclude that we are a racist country. I see it first hand daily. I have travelled to nearly every country in Europe as well as Asia, Africa and the US.

Yes there is racism everywhere but that is not what this thread is about. It specifically asks if Australia is a racist country. NOT is it the most racist country....I don't think anyone could argue with certainty that we ARE the most racist. Our biggest problem with racism is towards our indigenous folk. I see that daily as I live in an area that is heavily populated by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.

When my father first arrived in Australia as a refugee from strife torn Croatia, he was welcomed wholeheartedly.

Now when we see a boat load of refugees we detain them illegally and label them because of their religion and beliefs. We are one of the worst performers when it comes to how we treat immigrants and refugees.

Racist??? Indeed.

If ALL countries are racists, then asking if Australia is as well is pretty pointless isn't it? ALL countries.

The point is to see how racist Australia is in the scheme of things. That's why I tried to add some perspective.
I am also first generation Australian, my parents also fled from war-torn parts of Europe, I have also travelled extensively. It doesn't make either of us experts, it merely facilitates us passing slighter broader opinions.

You can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation. When my parents migrated to Australia, they were most certainly not welcome with open arms - but they kept their heads down, worked their fingers to the bone, and contributed in a positive way without the assistance of any kind of social welfare (it wasn't available). They were just stoked that they had gotten out of Europe.

Blinky...no you can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation...thank you for making my point. Europeans were sponsored to live and work in Australia...they still are. Why not middle eastern people? Present day refugees don't even get a chance to prove themselves "worthy". They are shunted to an offshore island and detained....so you are right...this does not equate to how YOUR parents and my father were treated at all. Australia is the ONLY country that detains refugees automatically...what does that tell you about how welcoming we are to immigrants?

I didn't make your point. I denied your assertion that European refugees were welcome wholeheardtedly, while now Middle Easterners are not.
My parents, from war-torn parts of Easetrn Europe WERE NOT WELCOMED WHOLEHEARTEDLY.

Despite this, they worked hard and made every effort to assimilate as quickly as possible into their host country's culture.
Why would they do this to themselves do you think?

As a result of this apparent willingness to intergrate, they were eventually treated more warmly and were able to function normally in mainstream Australian society.

Refugees toaday are largely less willing to intergrate (thanks perhaps to a publicly funded system of multiculturalism) which has led to their own exclusion from mainstreem society and encouraged them to live within their own ethnic communities on a scale never before experienced in this country. It is further perpetuated by the existence of a social welfare system (that was not in place after WW2 when most Euro's came here) the application for which, is available in any language you want!

You don't have to eat meat pies, drink VB and watch the footy to fit in. Language, and certain moral attitudes though are almost essential for co-existence.

You've travelled - you know what it's lilke not being able to speak the local language and having to struggle to get about daily life in a foreign country. Of course it is easier in the short term to hang around people who speak the same language as you and can help you, but sooner or later, unless you're happy living in a small area surrounded by the same people, you are going to have to learn to walk the walk and talk the talk.

As this thread began - its less racial than cultural differences that have caused conflict.
Labelling people racist is easy (and keeps you popular at uni), facing certain realities is not.
I hope you do not take this rant as an excuse for racism that does occur in Australia - I know it does and that it is unacceptable, but I cannot label Australians as "racist" on the whole.
Have you personally been the victim of racism in Australia? I have not, but my grandparents have.

[adleberg]

The 'refugees' of the previous generation were not refugees. They were immigrants. Australia still has a big immigration program. The detained people are those who travel here illegally, I am all in favour of giving havon to those fleeing hardship but face the facts that the majority of people who come here illegally are criminals and cheating the honest immigrants out of a position in Australian society.

[Bubbles]

DSwain wrote: Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Has anyone ever been to Eastern Europe? Gypsies and anyone not an ethnic local is generally treated like s**t.
I can't say that the same doesn't happen here, but it is far less widespread or as deeply ingrained as it is in some parts of the world.
Racism exists everywhere, as has been said, but Australia is not a racist country as a whole, in my experience.
Anyone who thinks so should visit parts of the world where racism is rampant to get a good dose of perspective.

Blinky...as a person of ethnic background (although born and raised in Australia) and having travelled extensively, I can safely conclude that we are a racist country. I see it first hand daily. I have travelled to nearly every country in Europe as well as Asia, Africa and the US.

Yes there is racism everywhere but that is not what this thread is about. It specifically asks if Australia is a racist country. NOT is it the most racist country....I don't think anyone could argue with certainty that we ARE the most racist. Our biggest problem with racism is towards our indigenous folk. I see that daily as I live in an area that is heavily populated by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.

When my father first arrived in Australia as a refugee from strife torn Croatia, he was welcomed wholeheartedly.

Now when we see a boat load of refugees we detain them illegally and label them because of their religion and beliefs. We are one of the worst performers when it comes to how we treat immigrants and refugees.

Racist??? Indeed.

If ALL countries are racists, then asking if Australia is as well is pretty pointless isn't it? ALL countries.

The point is to see how racist Australia is in the scheme of things. That's why I tried to add some perspective.
I am also first generation Australian, my parents also fled from war-torn parts of Europe, I have also travelled extensively. It doesn't make either of us experts, it merely facilitates us passing slighter broader opinions.

You can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation. When my parents migrated to Australia, they were most certainly not welcome with open arms - but they kept their heads down, worked their fingers to the bone, and contributed in a positive way without the assistance of any kind of social welfare (it wasn't available). They were just stoked that they had gotten out of Europe.

Blinky...no you can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation...thank you for making my point. Europeans were sponsored to live and work in Australia...they still are. Why not middle eastern people? Present day refugees don't even get a chance to prove themselves "worthy". They are shunted to an offshore island and detained....so you are right...this does not equate to how YOUR parents and my father were treated at all. Australia is the ONLY country that detains refugees automatically...what does that tell you about how welcoming we are to immigrants?

The way nations deal with refugees and immigrants is quite different. An immigrant is someone who has the time and resources to apply for residency in another country and makes that application while in his home country. Such immigration is primarily for economic reasons and the prospective host nation is able to terminate the application process at any time. A refugee is often unable to apply for asylum in a second country because of the situation in which he finds himself. The first the host country will know of a refugee is when he presents himself at an entry point. So, that Australia automatically detains refugees has no bearing whatsoever on the reception provided to legal immigrants.

The majority of nations that do not follow Australian policy on compulsory detention of refugees do so purely for economic reasons. Personally I see no problem with such detention and I wish we would have a similar policy in the UK. If I as a refugee am fleeing a "...well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion..." then I would have no problem with awaiting the decision of my prospective host country in only very moderate discomfort. Refugees in Australian reception centres are housed, fed and provided with medical attention. The only possible criticism I could level at the Australian system is that it could be faster - but that problem is universal to immigration and asylum systems worldwide.

BTW - how are Europeans sponsored to immigrate to Australia? Ie, how are we treated substantially differently from potential immigrants from other regions of the world? I don't believe that we are but if I am misinformed I would love to know about it!

Thanks for the lesson, but I am fully aware of the definitions of immigrants and refugees. I am just using an example as to how we are a racist country. Our government has spurned a hatred towards, in particular, middle eastern people. So much so that they won an election on it. The Howard government lied to the Australian public and accused a boat load of refugees of throwing their children overboard. Even though there is proof the our defence forces advised Howard prior to the election, that the children were not thrown overboard. Detaining refugees or illegal immigrants is against international law. For the number of refugees that have made their way to our shores, illegal or otherwise, compared to that of the rest of the world, we fail miserably to process these people. The most we had in one year was 1999-2000 with just over 4000 refugees. Since then we are lucky to have ONE boat load per year. Canada, for example, process over 10,000 per year. I could MAYBE understand a country detaining refugees if they were inundated with masses of refugees, but we have so few and yet detain them for so long...many over 5 years. It doesn't take THAT long to check up on a person's authenticity. Do you think it is fair that these people are detained for 3, 4, 5 years or more?

These are not "reception" centres. It is no co-incidence that these detention centres are run by Group 4 security who just so happen to run many prisons in Australia and the US. These people want and deserve freedom. Our treatment of them just incites hatred. So by your way of thinking, as long as they are fed and watered, they should rot in these reception centres aka prisons indefinitely?

I know of many business owners who sponsor Europeans (most of them European themselves) to work in their own business. When my father came to Australia...most of his friends were paid an amount of money to come and work in Australia...the Italians as canecutters for example. We are a HUGE country, and need more immigrants. We have thousands upon thousands of backpackers that are able to get working visas with little or no checks. Especially in the fruit picking industry and tourism/hospitality. Why should they be so lucky when there are people fleeing from war torn countries seeking genuine refuge?

Answer...country of origin perhaps?

[Bubbles]

Blinky wrote: Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Has anyone ever been to Eastern Europe? Gypsies and anyone not an ethnic local is generally treated like s**t.
I can't say that the same doesn't happen here, but it is far less widespread or as deeply ingrained as it is in some parts of the world.
Racism exists everywhere, as has been said, but Australia is not a racist country as a whole, in my experience.
Anyone who thinks so should visit parts of the world where racism is rampant to get a good dose of perspective.

Blinky...as a person of ethnic background (although born and raised in Australia) and having travelled extensively, I can safely conclude that we are a racist country. I see it first hand daily. I have travelled to nearly every country in Europe as well as Asia, Africa and the US.

Yes there is racism everywhere but that is not what this thread is about. It specifically asks if Australia is a racist country. NOT is it the most racist country....I don't think anyone could argue with certainty that we ARE the most racist. Our biggest problem with racism is towards our indigenous folk. I see that daily as I live in an area that is heavily populated by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.

When my father first arrived in Australia as a refugee from strife torn Croatia, he was welcomed wholeheartedly.

Now when we see a boat load of refugees we detain them illegally and label them because of their religion and beliefs. We are one of the worst performers when it comes to how we treat immigrants and refugees.

Racist??? Indeed.

If ALL countries are racists, then asking if Australia is as well is pretty pointless isn't it? ALL countries.

The point is to see how racist Australia is in the scheme of things. That's why I tried to add some perspective.
I am also first generation Australian, my parents also fled from war-torn parts of Europe, I have also travelled extensively. It doesn't make either of us experts, it merely facilitates us passing slighter broader opinions.

You can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation. When my parents migrated to Australia, they were most certainly not welcome with open arms - but they kept their heads down, worked their fingers to the bone, and contributed in a positive way without the assistance of any kind of social welfare (it wasn't available). They were just stoked that they had gotten out of Europe.

Blinky...no you can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation...thank you for making my point. Europeans were sponsored to live and work in Australia...they still are. Why not middle eastern people? Present day refugees don't even get a chance to prove themselves "worthy". They are shunted to an offshore island and detained....so you are right...this does not equate to how YOUR parents and my father were treated at all. Australia is the ONLY country that detains refugees automatically...what does that tell you about how welcoming we are to immigrants?

I didn't make your point. I denied your assertion that European refugees were welcome wholeheardtedly, while now Middle Easterners are not.
My parents, from war-torn parts of Easetrn Europe WERE NOT WELCOMED WHOLEHEARTEDLY.

Despite this, they worked hard and made every effort to assimilate as quickly as possible into their host country's culture.
Why would they do this to themselves do you think?

As a result of this apparent willingness to intergrate, they were eventually treated more warmly and were able to function normally in mainstream Australian society.

Refugees toaday are largely less willing to intergrate (thanks perhaps to a publicly funded system of multiculturalism) which has led to their own exclusion from mainstreem society and encouraged them to live within their own ethnic communities on a scale never before experienced in this country. It is further perpetuated by the existence of a social welfare system (that was not in place after WW2 when most Euro's came here) the application for which, is available in any language you want!

You don't have to eat meat pies, drink VB and watch the footy to fit in. Language, and certain moral attitudes though are almost essential for co-existence.

You've travelled - you know what it's lilke not being able to speak the local language and having to struggle to get about daily life in a foreign country. Of course it is easier in the short term to hang around people who speak the same language as you and can help you, but sooner or later, unless you're happy living in a small area surrounded by the same people, you are going to have to learn to walk the walk and talk the talk.

As this thread began - its less racial than cultural differences that have caused conflict.
Labelling people racist is easy (and keeps you popular at uni), facing certain realities is not.
I hope you do not take this rant as an excuse for racism that does occur in Australia - I know it does and that it is unacceptable, but I cannot label Australians as "racist" on the whole.
Have you personally been the victim of racism in Australia? I have not, but my grandparents have.

No you didn't make my point as such...I was being sarcastic.

No I am not a victim of racism myself but that does not mean it does not exist. I have most certainly been a witness to racism...I see it nearly every day. No we are not the most racist...probably not in the top ten with the rest of the world, but we are a racist country. How is a person supposed to integrate or assimilate if they have all manner of insults hurtled at them because they wear a burka, for example?

I am not a victim as such but perhaps that is because I am a white female with an Aussie accent.

However, I don't think this thread is about who and who doesn't assimilate.

We should be a lot more tolerant and accepting of other races. We used to be. Our government have put fear and loathing into our hearts and minds.

[Bubbles]

adleberg wrote: The 'refugees' of the previous generation were not refugees. They were immigrants. Australia still has a big immigration program. The detained people are those who travel here illegally, I am all in favour of giving havon to those fleeing hardship but face the facts that the majority of people who come here illegally are criminals and cheating the honest immigrants out of a position in Australian society.

Actually you are wrong. The majority of refugees are NOT criminals. Over 90% that have been processed to date, have been found to be genuine and been given temporary visas. We actually have more illegal immigrants or people who reside in Australia without legal visas than we have refugees awaiting asylum. People who have been able to obtain a working visa for say three months, and have not extended this visa, amount to much much more than the current 10,000 we have detained in detention centres.

[DSwain]

Bubbles wrote: DSwain wrote: Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Has anyone ever been to Eastern Europe? Gypsies and anyone not an ethnic local is generally treated like s**t.
I can't say that the same doesn't happen here, but it is far less widespread or as deeply ingrained as it is in some parts of the world.
Racism exists everywhere, as has been said, but Australia is not a racist country as a whole, in my experience.
Anyone who thinks so should visit parts of the world where racism is rampant to get a good dose of perspective.

Blinky...as a person of ethnic background (although born and raised in Australia) and having travelled extensively, I can safely conclude that we are a racist country. I see it first hand daily. I have travelled to nearly every country in Europe as well as Asia, Africa and the US.

Yes there is racism everywhere but that is not what this thread is about. It specifically asks if Australia is a racist country. NOT is it the most racist country....I don't think anyone could argue with certainty that we ARE the most racist. Our biggest problem with racism is towards our indigenous folk. I see that daily as I live in an area that is heavily populated by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.

When my father first arrived in Australia as a refugee from strife torn Croatia, he was welcomed wholeheartedly.

Now when we see a boat load of refugees we detain them illegally and label them because of their religion and beliefs. We are one of the worst performers when it comes to how we treat immigrants and refugees.

Racist??? Indeed.

If ALL countries are racists, then asking if Australia is as well is pretty pointless isn't it? ALL countries.

The point is to see how racist Australia is in the scheme of things. That's why I tried to add some perspective.
I am also first generation Australian, my parents also fled from war-torn parts of Europe, I have also travelled extensively. It doesn't make either of us experts, it merely facilitates us passing slighter broader opinions.

You can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation. When my parents migrated to Australia, they were most certainly not welcome with open arms - but they kept their heads down, worked their fingers to the bone, and contributed in a positive way without the assistance of any kind of social welfare (it wasn't available). They were just stoked that they had gotten out of Europe.

Blinky...no you can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation...thank you for making my point. Europeans were sponsored to live and work in Australia...they still are. Why not middle eastern people? Present day refugees don't even get a chance to prove themselves "worthy". They are shunted to an offshore island and detained....so you are right...this does not equate to how YOUR parents and my father were treated at all. Australia is the ONLY country that detains refugees automatically...what does that tell you about how welcoming we are to immigrants?

The way nations deal with refugees and immigrants is quite different. An immigrant is someone who has the time and resources to apply for residency in another country and makes that application while in his home country. Such immigration is primarily for economic reasons and the prospective host nation is able to terminate the application process at any time. A refugee is often unable to apply for asylum in a second country because of the situation in which he finds himself. The first the host country will know of a refugee is when he presents himself at an entry point. So, that Australia automatically detains refugees has no bearing whatsoever on the reception provided to legal immigrants.

The majority of nations that do not follow Australian policy on compulsory detention of refugees do so purely for economic reasons. Personally I see no problem with such detention and I wish we would have a similar policy in the UK. If I as a refugee am fleeing a "...well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion..." then I would have no problem with awaiting the decision of my prospective host country in only very moderate discomfort. Refugees in Australian reception centres are housed, fed and provided with medical attention. The only possible criticism I could level at the Australian system is that it could be faster - but that problem is universal to immigration and asylum systems worldwide.

BTW - how are Europeans sponsored to immigrate to Australia? Ie, how are we treated substantially differently from potential immigrants from other regions of the world? I don't believe that we are but if I am misinformed I would love to know about it!

Thanks for the lesson, but I am fully aware of the definitions of immigrants and refugees. I am just using an example as to how we are a racist country. Our government has spurned a hatred towards, in particular, middle eastern people. So much so that they won an election on it. The Howard government lied to the Australian public and accused a boat load of refugees of throwing their children overboard. Even though there is proof the our defence forces advised Howard prior to the election, that the children were not thrown overboard. Detaining refugees or illegal immigrants is against international law. For the number of refugees that have made their way to our shores, illegal or otherwise, compared to that of the rest of the world, we fail miserably to process these people. The most we had in one year was 1999-2000 with just over 4000 refugees. Since then we are lucky to have ONE boat load per year. Canada, for example, process over 10,000 per year. I could MAYBE understand a country detaining refugees if they were inundated with masses of refugees, but we have so few and yet detain them for so long...many over 5 years. It doesn't take THAT long to check up on a person's authenticity. Do you think it is fair that these people are detained for 3, 4, 5 years or more?

These are not "reception" centres. It is no co-incidence that these detention centres are run by Group 4 security who just so happen to run many prisons in Australia and the US. These people want and deserve freedom. Our treatment of them just incites hatred. So by your way of thinking, as long as they are fed and watered, they should rot in these reception centres aka prisons indefinitely?

I know of many business owners who sponsor Europeans (most of them European themselves) to work in their own business. When my father came to Australia...most of his friends were paid an amount of money to come and work in Australia...the Italians as canecutters for example. We are a HUGE country, and need more immigrants. We have thousands upon thousands of backpackers that are able to get working visas with little or no checks. Especially in the fruit picking industry and tourism/hospitality. Why should they be so lucky when there are people fleeing from war torn countries seeking genuine refuge?

Answer...country of origin perhaps?

You grouped together economic immigrants and refugees, not me. My intention was not to give a 'lesson' but rather to delineate between the two groups (you group them together again in the last para of your post).

If refugees are fleeing genuine persecution then a delay while their applications are being processed should not be problem. If I had the choice of electrodes upside the soles of my feet or time in a detention centre awaiting the start of a new life in a great and hospitable country - I'd know which I'd go for. And if DIMA finds that asylum claims are bogus then those people should be removed swiftly.

The responsibility of the Australian government is to its citizens. Part of that responsibility involves ensuring the inviolability of its borders. How is that racist?

Which law stipulates that businesses cannot sponsor non-Europeans for immigration? Or even, which Australian companies have been found guilty of discrimination in refusing to sponsor non-Europeans?

I remember the Tampa incident very well. I remember Australian law being upheld. However I don't remember the revelation you report that the Howard government lied and disregarded ADF information about refugee children being thrown into the water. I'd be interested to read about that. Afghan refugees attempting to seek asylum in Australia beggars the spirit of the UN convention - that asylum seekers who present themselves at the border should have attempted to obtain asylum in the first safe country they reached. I can think of four countries east of Afghanistan that are MUCH closer than Australia. Oh and the last time I checked, Afghanistan was landlocked.

[Blinky]

Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Has anyone ever been to Eastern Europe? Gypsies and anyone not an ethnic local is generally treated like s**t.
I can't say that the same doesn't happen here, but it is far less widespread or as deeply ingrained as it is in some parts of the world.
Racism exists everywhere, as has been said, but Australia is not a racist country as a whole, in my experience.
Anyone who thinks so should visit parts of the world where racism is rampant to get a good dose of perspective.

Blinky...as a person of ethnic background (although born and raised in Australia) and having travelled extensively, I can safely conclude that we are a racist country. I see it first hand daily. I have travelled to nearly every country in Europe as well as Asia, Africa and the US.

Yes there is racism everywhere but that is not what this thread is about. It specifically asks if Australia is a racist country. NOT is it the most racist country....I don't think anyone could argue with certainty that we ARE the most racist. Our biggest problem with racism is towards our indigenous folk. I see that daily as I live in an area that is heavily populated by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.

When my father first arrived in Australia as a refugee from strife torn Croatia, he was welcomed wholeheartedly.

Now when we see a boat load of refugees we detain them illegally and label them because of their religion and beliefs. We are one of the worst performers when it comes to how we treat immigrants and refugees.

Racist??? Indeed.

If ALL countries are racists, then asking if Australia is as well is pretty pointless isn't it? ALL countries.

The point is to see how racist Australia is in the scheme of things. That's why I tried to add some perspective.
I am also first generation Australian, my parents also fled from war-torn parts of Europe, I have also travelled extensively. It doesn't make either of us experts, it merely facilitates us passing slighter broader opinions.

You can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation. When my parents migrated to Australia, they were most certainly not welcome with open arms - but they kept their heads down, worked their fingers to the bone, and contributed in a positive way without the assistance of any kind of social welfare (it wasn't available). They were just stoked that they had gotten out of Europe.

Blinky...no you can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation...thank you for making my point. Europeans were sponsored to live and work in Australia...they still are. Why not middle eastern people? Present day refugees don't even get a chance to prove themselves "worthy". They are shunted to an offshore island and detained....so you are right...this does not equate to how YOUR parents and my father were treated at all. Australia is the ONLY country that detains refugees automatically...what does that tell you about how welcoming we are to immigrants?

I didn't make your point. I denied your assertion that European refugees were welcome wholeheardtedly, while now Middle Easterners are not.
My parents, from war-torn parts of Easetrn Europe WERE NOT WELCOMED WHOLEHEARTEDLY.

Despite this, they worked hard and made every effort to assimilate as quickly as possible into their host country's culture.
Why would they do this to themselves do you think?

As a result of this apparent willingness to intergrate, they were eventually treated more warmly and were able to function normally in mainstream Australian society.

Refugees toaday are largely less willing to intergrate (thanks perhaps to a publicly funded system of multiculturalism) which has led to their own exclusion from mainstreem society and encouraged them to live within their own ethnic communities on a scale never before experienced in this country. It is further perpetuated by the existence of a social welfare system (that was not in place after WW2 when most Euro's came here) the application for which, is available in any language you want!

You don't have to eat meat pies, drink VB and watch the footy to fit in. Language, and certain moral attitudes though are almost essential for co-existence.

You've travelled - you know what it's lilke not being able to speak the local language and having to struggle to get about daily life in a foreign country. Of course it is easier in the short term to hang around people who speak the same language as you and can help you, but sooner or later, unless you're happy living in a small area surrounded by the same people, you are going to have to learn to walk the walk and talk the talk.

As this thread began - its less racial than cultural differences that have caused conflict.
Labelling people racist is easy (and keeps you popular at uni), facing certain realities is not.
I hope you do not take this rant as an excuse for racism that does occur in Australia - I know it does and that it is unacceptable, but I cannot label Australians as "racist" on the whole.
Have you personally been the victim of racism in Australia? I have not, but my grandparents have.

No you didn't make my point as such...I was being sarcastic.

No I am not a victim of racism myself but that does not mean it does not exist. I have most certainly been a witness to racism...I see it nearly every day. No we are not the most racist...probably not in the top ten with the rest of the world, but we are a racist country. How is a person supposed to integrate or assimilate if they have all manner of insults hurtled at them because they wear a burka, for example?

I am not a victim as such but perhaps that is because I am a white female with an Aussie accent.

However, I don't think this thread is about who and who doesn't assimilate.

We should be a lot more tolerant and accepting of other races. We used to be. Our government have put fear and loathing into our hearts and minds.

Firstly and in answer to your question (How is a person supposed to integrate or assimilate if they have all manner of insults hurtled at them because they wear a burka, for example?): You just do. My grandparents put up with insults etc most of their lives here. As I said, they were stoked to have gotten out of Europe, being called names was a small price to pay.
As attitudes towards new arrivals changed, they were gradually more accepted because a newer and more enlightened generation saw that they were willing to work hard and fit in as best they could. You would not have met people more proud to be Australian than my grandparents.
More recent waves of immigrants have not done this. They have tended to live in ethnic communities, setting themselves up for social exclusion beyond the current generation, by a new generation of mainstream Australians who can't relate to them any more than their parents could.
Efforts have been made, IMO, by the majority of Australians to be tolerant of new arrivals. It is human nature to associate with people who talk, dress, eat, speak, believe the same as you. The effort must be made then, by the new arrivals to fit into their hosts culture rather than expect their hosts to accomodate at times, morally contradictory points of view, customs and beliefs.
Being a refugee aint easy, and I hope my kids never have to know what it feels like to have to leave everything behind and start over in a new country and with a new culture. But nobody said it was meant to be easy. Sure refugees have a rough time, but so do their hosts, who sit by and watch their own way of life undergo changes brought about by the influences of foreign cultures who they have accepted into their country.

Some Australians are racist. Racism will always exist in some form from now until the end of time. Like you said we are not in the top ten or anything, so with a sense of perspective I don't think Australia can be labelled a 'racist country'. If it is, then every country is.

[Bubbles]

DSwain wrote: Bubbles wrote: DSwain wrote: Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Has anyone ever been to Eastern Europe? Gypsies and anyone not an ethnic local is generally treated like s**t.
I can't say that the same doesn't happen here, but it is far less widespread or as deeply ingrained as it is in some parts of the world.
Racism exists everywhere, as has been said, but Australia is not a racist country as a whole, in my experience.
Anyone who thinks so should visit parts of the world where racism is rampant to get a good dose of perspective.

Blinky...as a person of ethnic background (although born and raised in Australia) and having travelled extensively, I can safely conclude that we are a racist country. I see it first hand daily. I have travelled to nearly every country in Europe as well as Asia, Africa and the US.

Yes there is racism everywhere but that is not what this thread is about. It specifically asks if Australia is a racist country. NOT is it the most racist country....I don't think anyone could argue with certainty that we ARE the most racist. Our biggest problem with racism is towards our indigenous folk. I see that daily as I live in an area that is heavily populated by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.

When my father first arrived in Australia as a refugee from strife torn Croatia, he was welcomed wholeheartedly.

Now when we see a boat load of refugees we detain them illegally and label them because of their religion and beliefs. We are one of the worst performers when it comes to how we treat immigrants and refugees.

Racist??? Indeed.

If ALL countries are racists, then asking if Australia is as well is pretty pointless isn't it? ALL countries.

The point is to see how racist Australia is in the scheme of things. That's why I tried to add some perspective.
I am also first generation Australian, my parents also fled from war-torn parts of Europe, I have also travelled extensively. It doesn't make either of us experts, it merely facilitates us passing slighter broader opinions.

You can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation. When my parents migrated to Australia, they were most certainly not welcome with open arms - but they kept their heads down, worked their fingers to the bone, and contributed in a positive way without the assistance of any kind of social welfare (it wasn't available). They were just stoked that they had gotten out of Europe.

Blinky...no you can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation...thank you for making my point. Europeans were sponsored to live and work in Australia...they still are. Why not middle eastern people? Present day refugees don't even get a chance to prove themselves "worthy". They are shunted to an offshore island and detained....so you are right...this does not equate to how YOUR parents and my father were treated at all. Australia is the ONLY country that detains refugees automatically...what does that tell you about how welcoming we are to immigrants?

The way nations deal with refugees and immigrants is quite different. An immigrant is someone who has the time and resources to apply for residency in another country and makes that application while in his home country. Such immigration is primarily for economic reasons and the prospective host nation is able to terminate the application process at any time. A refugee is often unable to apply for asylum in a second country because of the situation in which he finds himself. The first the host country will know of a refugee is when he presents himself at an entry point. So, that Australia automatically detains refugees has no bearing whatsoever on the reception provided to legal immigrants.

The majority of nations that do not follow Australian policy on compulsory detention of refugees do so purely for economic reasons. Personally I see no problem with such detention and I wish we would have a similar policy in the UK. If I as a refugee am fleeing a "...well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion..." then I would have no problem with awaiting the decision of my prospective host country in only very moderate discomfort. Refugees in Australian reception centres are housed, fed and provided with medical attention. The only possible criticism I could level at the Australian system is that it could be faster - but that problem is universal to immigration and asylum systems worldwide.

BTW - how are Europeans sponsored to immigrate to Australia? Ie, how are we treated substantially differently from potential immigrants from other regions of the world? I don't believe that we are but if I am misinformed I would love to know about it!

Thanks for the lesson, but I am fully aware of the definitions of immigrants and refugees. I am just using an example as to how we are a racist country. Our government has spurned a hatred towards, in particular, middle eastern people. So much so that they won an election on it. The Howard government lied to the Australian public and accused a boat load of refugees of throwing their children overboard. Even though there is proof the our defence forces advised Howard prior to the election, that the children were not thrown overboard. Detaining refugees or illegal immigrants is against international law. For the number of refugees that have made their way to our shores, illegal or otherwise, compared to that of the rest of the world, we fail miserably to process these people. The most we had in one year was 1999-2000 with just over 4000 refugees. Since then we are lucky to have ONE boat load per year. Canada, for example, process over 10,000 per year. I could MAYBE understand a country detaining refugees if they were inundated with masses of refugees, but we have so few and yet detain them for so long...many over 5 years. It doesn't take THAT long to check up on a person's authenticity. Do you think it is fair that these people are detained for 3, 4, 5 years or more?

These are not "reception" centres. It is no co-incidence that these detention centres are run by Group 4 security who just so happen to run many prisons in Australia and the US. These people want and deserve freedom. Our treatment of them just incites hatred. So by your way of thinking, as long as they are fed and watered, they should rot in these reception centres aka prisons indefinitely?

I know of many business owners who sponsor Europeans (most of them European themselves) to work in their own business. When my father came to Australia...most of his friends were paid an amount of money to come and work in Australia...the Italians as canecutters for example. We are a HUGE country, and need more immigrants. We have thousands upon thousands of backpackers that are able to get working visas with little or no checks. Especially in the fruit picking industry and tourism/hospitality. Why should they be so lucky when there are people fleeing from war torn countries seeking genuine refuge?

Answer...country of origin perhaps?

You grouped together economic immigrants and refugees, not me. My intention was not to give a 'lesson' but rather to delineate between the two groups (you group them together again in the last para of your post).

If refugees are fleeing genuine persecution then a delay while their applications are being processed should not be problem. If I had the choice of electrodes upside the soles of my feet or time in a detention centre awaiting the start of a new life in a great and hospitable country - I'd know which I'd go for. And if DIMA finds that asylum claims are bogus then those people should be removed swiftly.

The responsibility of the Australian government is to its citizens. Part of that responsibility involves ensuring the inviolability of its borders. How is that racist?

Which law stipulates that businesses cannot sponsor non-Europeans for immigration? Or even, which Australian companies have been found guilty of discrimination in refusing to sponsor non-Europeans?

I remember the Tampa incident very well. I remember Australian law being upheld. However I don't remember the revelation you report that the Howard government lied and disregarded ADF information about refugee children being thrown into the water. I'd be interested to read about that. Afghan refugees attempting to seek asylum in Australia beggars the spirit of the UN convention - that asylum seekers who present themselves at the border should have attempted to obtain asylum in the first safe country they reached. I can think of four countries east of Afghanistan that are MUCH closer than Australia. Oh and the last time I checked, Afghanistan was landlocked.

A delay should not be a problem? Huh? 5 years is not a delay. It is an incarceration. It's a prison sentence. Rapists get less. These people (90% so far), have been found to be genuine refugees. Why the delays?

Where in my post did I indicate that it was illegal to sponsor non European people? You are missing my point.

Read this:http://www.socialism.com/fsarticles/vol25no4/australia.html

and then this:http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/28/1035683314543.html

and finally this:http://www.safecom.org.au/detention.htm


How do YOU know that the people aboard Tampa hadn't reached the shores of another country? How does anyone, since no-one has asked them?

[Bubbles]

And anyway...rather than turn this into a discussion about immigration and refugees (I'm sure there are tons of threads about this), perhaps we could focus on racism in Australia in another form that no-one has touched on.

Racism towards our indigenous population is by far our greatest shame. In particular the stolen generation.

[DSwain]

Bubbles wrote: DSwain wrote: Bubbles wrote: DSwain wrote: Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Bubbles wrote: Blinky wrote: Has anyone ever been to Eastern Europe? Gypsies and anyone not an ethnic local is generally treated like s**t.
I can't say that the same doesn't happen here, but it is far less widespread or as deeply ingrained as it is in some parts of the world.
Racism exists everywhere, as has been said, but Australia is not a racist country as a whole, in my experience.
Anyone who thinks so should visit parts of the world where racism is rampant to get a good dose of perspective.

Blinky...as a person of ethnic background (although born and raised in Australia) and having travelled extensively, I can safely conclude that we are a racist country. I see it first hand daily. I have travelled to nearly every country in Europe as well as Asia, Africa and the US.

Yes there is racism everywhere but that is not what this thread is about. It specifically asks if Australia is a racist country. NOT is it the most racist country....I don't think anyone could argue with certainty that we ARE the most racist. Our biggest problem with racism is towards our indigenous folk. I see that daily as I live in an area that is heavily populated by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.

When my father first arrived in Australia as a refugee from strife torn Croatia, he was welcomed wholeheartedly.

Now when we see a boat load of refugees we detain them illegally and label them because of their religion and beliefs. We are one of the worst performers when it comes to how we treat immigrants and refugees.

Racist??? Indeed.

If ALL countries are racists, then asking if Australia is as well is pretty pointless isn't it? ALL countries.

The point is to see how racist Australia is in the scheme of things. That's why I tried to add some perspective.
I am also first generation Australian, my parents also fled from war-torn parts of Europe, I have also travelled extensively. It doesn't make either of us experts, it merely facilitates us passing slighter broader opinions.

You can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation. When my parents migrated to Australia, they were most certainly not welcome with open arms - but they kept their heads down, worked their fingers to the bone, and contributed in a positive way without the assistance of any kind of social welfare (it wasn't available). They were just stoked that they had gotten out of Europe.

Blinky...no you can't equate the refugees today with that of our parents generation...thank you for making my point. Europeans were sponsored to live and work in Australia...they still are. Why not middle eastern people? Present day refugees don't even get a chance to prove themselves "worthy". They are shunted to an offshore island and detained....so you are right...this does not equate to how YOUR parents and my father were treated at all. Australia is the ONLY country that detains refugees automatically...what does that tell you about how welcoming we are to immigrants?

The way nations deal with refugees and immigrants is quite different. An immigrant is someone who has the time and resources to apply for residency in another country and makes that application while in his home country. Such immigration is primarily for economic reasons and the prospective host nation is able to terminate the application process at any time. A refugee is often unable to apply for asylum in a second country because of the situation in which he finds himself. The first the host country will know of a refugee is when he presents himself at an entry point. So, that Australia automatically detains refugees has no bearing whatsoever on the reception provided to legal immigrants.

The majority of nations that do not follow Australian policy on compulsory detention of refugees do so purely for economic reasons. Personally I see no problem with such detention and I wish we would have a similar policy in the UK. If I as a refugee am fleeing a "...well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion..." then I would have no problem with awaiting the decision of my prospective host country in only very moderate discomfort. Refugees in Australian reception centres are housed, fed and provided with medical attention. The only possible criticism I could level at the Australian system is that it could be faster - but that problem is universal to immigration and asylum systems worldwide.

BTW - how are Europeans sponsored to immigrate to Australia? Ie, how are we treated substantially differently from potential immigrants from other regions of the world? I don't believe that we are but if I am misinformed I would love to know about it!

Thanks for the lesson, but I am fully aware of the definitions of immigrants and refugees. I am just using an example as to how we are a racist country. Our government has spurned a hatred towards, in particular, middle eastern people. So much so that they won an election on it. The Howard government lied to the Australian public and accused a boat load of refugees of throwing their children overboard. Even though there is proof the our defence forces advised Howard prior to the election, that the children were not thrown overboard. Detaining refugees or illegal immigrants is against international law. For the number of refugees that have made their way to our shores, illegal or otherwise, compared to that of the rest of the world, we fail miserably to process these people. The most we had in one year was 1999-2000 with just over 4000 refugees. Since then we are lucky to have ONE boat load per year. Canada, for example, process over 10,000 per year. I could MAYBE understand a country detaining refugees if they were inundated with masses of refugees, but we have so few and yet detain them for so long...many over 5 years. It doesn't take THAT long to check up on a person's authenticity. Do you think it is fair that these people are detained for 3, 4, 5 years or more?

These are not "reception" centres. It is no co-incidence that these detention centres are run by Group 4 security who just so happen to run many prisons in Australia and the US. These people want and deserve freedom. Our treatment of them just incites hatred. So by your way of thinking, as long as they are fed and watered, they should rot in these reception centres aka prisons indefinitely?

I know of many business owners who sponsor Europeans (most of them European themselves) to work in their own business. When my father came to Australia...most of his friends were paid an amount of money to come and work in Australia...the Italians as canecutters for example. We are a HUGE country, and need more immigrants. We have thousands upon thousands of backpackers that are able to get working visas with little or no checks. Especially in the fruit picking industry and tourism/hospitality. Why should they be so lucky when there are people fleeing from war torn countries seeking genuine refuge?

Answer...country of origin perhaps?

You grouped together economic immigrants and refugees, not me. My intention was not to give a 'lesson' but rather to delineate between the two groups (you group them together again in the last para of your post).

If refugees are fleeing genuine persecution then a delay while their applications are being processed should not be problem. If I had the choice of electrodes upside the soles of my feet or time in a detention centre awaiting the start of a new life in a great and hospitable country - I'd know which I'd go for. And if DIMA finds that asylum claims are bogus then those people should be removed swiftly.

The responsibility of the Australian government is to its citizens. Part of that responsibility involves ensuring the inviolability of its borders. How is that racist?

Which law stipulates that businesses cannot sponsor non-Europeans for immigration? Or even, which Australian companies have been found guilty of discrimination in refusing to sponsor non-Europeans?

I remember the Tampa incident very well. I remember Australian law being upheld. However I don't remember the revelation you report that the Howard government lied and disregarded ADF information about refugee children being thrown into the water. I'd be interested to read about that. Afghan refugees attempting to seek asylum in Australia beggars the spirit of the UN convention - that asylum seekers who present themselves at the border should have attempted to obtain asylum in the first safe country they reached. I can think of four countries east of Afghanistan that are MUCH closer than Australia. Oh and the last time I checked, Afghanistan was landlocked.

A delay should not be a problem? Huh? 5 years is not a delay. It is an incarceration. It's a prison sentence. Rapists get less. These people (90% so far), have been found to be genuine refugees. Why the delays?

Where in my post did I indicate that it was illegal to sponsor non European people? You are missing my point.

Read this:http://www.socialism.com/fsarticles/vol25no4/australia.html

and then this:http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/28/1035683314543.html

and finally this:http://www.safecom.org.au/detention.htm


How do YOU know that the people aboard Tampa hadn't reached the shores of another country? How does anyone, since no-one has asked them?

Thank you for the links - interesting reading with some reservations.

Socialism.org is pure agitprop and I won't pay any great heed to what they have to say just as a website called capitalism.org or fascism.org are not beacons of impartiality.

The Sydney Morning Herald article and Safecom sites are much more relevant IMO.

What's the substance of what the SMH says? It's that John Howard stood up in parliament and said that as far as the medical examination had gone, none of the people on the MV Tampa were in need of medical examination though medical examinations were continuting (my italics). At worst I'd call that dissembling.

Re Safecom - I think the idea of a timelimit is a good one. However - detention must remain for the duration of the initial application and subsequent appeal process.

Why are asylum seekers screened anyway? It's because the government has a responsibility for security but principally because the asylum process must not be viewed as the back door to economic migration. Here in the UK, that is precisely what our asylum system became in the mid 1990s. The pressure put on community relations was enormous. The British government couldn't answer its critics or a vocal public because the system was out of control; asylum seekers arrived at the port of entry and then disappeared. The government couldn't even guess at the numbers of the disappeared. Even today, the government cannot answer how many people are in the UK illegally - but estimates vary from 500,000 to 2 million - or a city the size of Manchester. Why does this happen? Because those who attempt illegal entry know that, if caught, they can immediately claim asylum then easily disappear into the black economy in London. That helps no-one in the UK - not white Britons or legal immigrants or the children of legal immigrants - as it's them who receive the bile of ignorant whites. That's why I support the Australian system of detention - you maintain control of those claiming asylum until their application is accepted or rejected.

If people are being kept detained for five years then that is clearly unacceptable and the Australian government must work to expedite asylum applications. But I would say again - if I was fleeing for my life then a delay at my destination should not be a problem.

And to reach the sea at a navigable point for Australia the people on the Tampa would have crossed Pakistan - a safe country that already houses Afghan refugees. I don't blame any individual for wanting a better life somewhere different - but rules are there to be obeyed and if you wish to be an economic migrant to another country you must follow the rules.

I took your point about sponsorship of Europeans that this was an example of Australia's racism - I apologise if I misunderstood your remarks.

[Bubbles]

DSwain...I am posting an article below about the "children overboard" fiasco. The outrage is more to do with the ADF telling the Howard government that children were not thrown overboard...the boat was sinking. Read for yourself.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/06/27/1023864633818.html

Again I reiterate...this is a side issue to what I believe is the true face of racism in Australia and that is our treatment of Aborigines.

Strangely enough, no-one has posted anything about that.

Perhaps people just don't care.

[nicksinif]

as a person that has traveled around the world, i will say australia is in fact racist. with a simple comparison between nz and australia. yes they killed off many of the aborigines. walk around sydney, and see how many aborigines you see. then walk around auckland and see how many maori u see. australians openly say they hate lebanese people. i mean, u dont even hear that kinda stuff in usa. but you do in denmark. australians are so bad with their racism, they even turn their exchange students into racists. i was talking to a student from spain in australia and he was telling me about how much he hated lebanese.


other comparisons
compared to usa, australia is more racist
to sweden, australia is more racist
to france, australia is more racist
to uk, australia is more racist
to finland, australia is more racist
to norway, australia is more racist
to canada, australia is more racist
to usa, australia is more racist (and thats bad when youre more racist than usa).

the good news is, australia isnt the worst. there are countries that are more racist. just to name a few.
japan, malaysia, indonesia.


as far as im concerned, australia is bad news altogether. from their racism, to their invasion of iraq. i cant think of too many good things about them.

[Wizard From Oz]

Quote: as far as im concerned, australia is bad news altogether. from their racism, to their invasion of iraq. i cant think of too many good things about them.

Fortunately the rest of the world doesn't seem to agree with your summation of Australia.

And your observation about about Aboriginals in Sydney are totally irrelevant. Urban environments dont suit them very well. They are not excluded from living in Sydney, they simply choose to in places that are not vast metropolisis of concrete and steel.

Even having said that. I can take you to areas close to the city where the majority of the population is Aboriginal - Little Everly Street and such.

There is no arguement that the treatment of Aborginals in the past was less than good. But I can state with great surity that this is changing.

Greater exposure to Aborginal culture and issues is breeding a new attitude in society here, and will ulitmately see all the racism attached to these people become history.

I do have to agree with you on your coments about New Zealand. It is a country widely regarded as the least racist on the planet

[Blinky]

nicksinif wrote: as a person that has traveled around the world, i will say australia is in fact racist. with a simple comparison between nz and australia. yes they killed off many of the aborigines. walk around sydney, and see how many aborigines you see. then walk around auckland and see how many maori u see.

I'll stop you there big fella. A couple of things:
1) Who's "they"? I didn't kill off any (let alone many) of the Aborigines, nor did anyone I know.
2) How exactly does the number of Aborigines hanging out at Town Hall steps give you an insight into the attitudes of Australian's?

Quote: australians openly say they hate lebanese people. i mean, u dont even hear that kinda stuff in usa. but you do in denmark. australians are so bad with their racism, they even turn their exchange students into racists. i was talking to a student from spain in australia and he was telling me about how much he hated lebanese.


Again, a couple of things:
1) I don't openly say I hate Lebanese people. In fact, I don't even hate them in private.
2) So NOBODY in the USA has a problem with Lebanese people? Arab-speaking races in the United States are not really everyone's favourite nowdays.
3) Your assumption that this Spanish student "became racist" because he was around Australians doesn't say much about him does it?

Quote: other comparisons
compared to usa, australia is more racist
to sweden, australia is more racist
to france, australia is more racist
to uk, australia is more racist
to finland, australia is more racist
to norway, australia is more racist
to canada, australia is more racist
to usa, australia is more racist (and thats bad when youre more racist than usa).

the good news is, australia isnt the worst. there are countries that are more racist. just to name a few.
japan, malaysia, indonesia.

Finally, some reliable statistical data backed up by impeccable sources! Well I guess I'm wrong, we're all a bunch of dirty racists!

Quote: as far as im concerned, australia is bad news altogether. from their racism, to their invasion of iraq. i cant think of too many good things about them.

Amazing then that you travelled here.

MG1962 said it: Fortunately the rest of the world doesn't seem to agree with your summation of Australia.

[nicksinif]

nicksinif wrote:
as a person that has traveled around the world, i will say australia is in fact racist. with a simple comparison between nz and australia. yes they killed off many of the aborigines. walk around sydney, and see how many aborigines you see. then walk around auckland and see how many maori u see.


I'll stop you there big fella. A couple of things:
1) Who's "they"? I didn't kill off any (let alone many) of the Aborigines, nor did anyone I know.
they=white australians
2) How exactly does the number of Aborigines hanging out at Town Hall steps give you an insight into the attitudes of Australian's?
how bout the fact that white australians killed most of them off and ran the remaining few into the outback.

australians openly say they hate lebanese people. i mean, u dont even hear that kinda stuff in usa. but you do in denmark. australians are so bad with their racism, they even turn their exchange students into racists. i was talking to a student from spain in australia and he was telling me about how much he hated lebanese.


Again, a couple of things:
1) I don't openly say I hate Lebanese people. In fact, I don't even hate them in private.
2) So NOBODY in the USA has a problem with Lebanese people? Arab-speaking races in the United States are not really everyone's favourite nowdays.
3) Your assumption that this Spanish student "became racist" because he was around Australians doesn't say much about him does it?
he may have been a racist to begin with, but the fact he was bold enough to say that to a complete stranger shows australia's tolerance of racism

other comparisons
compared to usa, australia is more racist
to sweden, australia is more racist
to france, australia is more racist
to uk, australia is more racist
to finland, australia is more racist
to norway, australia is more racist
to canada, australia is more racist
to usa, australia is more racist (and thats bad when youre more racist than usa).

the good news is, australia isnt the worst. there are countries that are more racist. just to name a few.
japan, malaysia, indonesia.


Finally, some reliable statistical data backed up by impeccable sources! Well I guess I'm wrong, we're all a bunch of dirty racists!

admiting it is the first step

as far as im concerned, australia is bad news altogether. from their racism, to their invasion of iraq. i cant think of too many good things about them.


Amazing then that you travelled here.

yes i know. what a waste of money.

MG1962 said it: Fortunately the rest of the world doesn't seem to agree with your summation of Australia.

the rest of the world just thinks australia is one big jungle with crocidile hunters and coalas running around. australia's 2 claims to fame. crocidile dundee and steve irwin.

and if you count mel gibson then theres the proof that australians are in fact racist.

[Wizard From Oz]

Quote: and if you count mel gibson then theres the proof that australians are in fact racist.

Coughs gently - Mel Gibson is an American who came to Australia