Political Crossfire Forums

anonymous4reasons · Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 5

Look at history, abortion has been taken place for thousands of years, it is just a known fact, and with it legal that means women can go into safe enviroments with proper equipment and medicines or in a back room with no medicine and a dirty knife. I hate the fact of loosing a beating heart, and I think abortion should be the last choice, but just because you make something illegal doesn't mean you stop it, you make it worse and unsafe.

joe christian · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 282

anonymous4reasons wrote: I hate the fact of loosing a beating heart, and I think abortion should be the last choice, but just because you make something illegal doesn't mean you stop it, you make it worse and unsafe.
Even though stop signs, red lights and speeding tickets don't eliminate all traffic accidents, they sure do cut down on the number which would occur if their were none.

Look at the bright side of making abortion illegal again. At least a million more Christian babies will be born every year in America, and half of them will grow up to be wonderful Christian fathers like me.

WsTxRedRaider06 · Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 146 Location: Lubbock, Texas

Abortion will never be completely illegal in this country. I dont see that happeneing, not anytime soon anyway. If anything, Roe v Wade will be overturned, and it will once again be left up to the States to govern abortion.

Ek0nomik · Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: La Fleur

joe christian wrote: anonymous4reasons wrote: I hate the fact of loosing a beating heart, and I think abortion should be the last choice, but just because you make something illegal doesn't mean you stop it, you make it worse and unsafe.
Even though stop signs, red lights and speeding tickets don't eliminate all traffic accidents, they sure do cut down on the number which would occur if their were none.

Look at the bright side of making abortion illegal again. At least a million more Christian babies will be born every year in America, and half of them will grow up to be wonderful Christian fathers like me.

All babies that are born are Christian? Interesting, never knew that.

thebreadloaf2003 · Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 213 Location: Texas

joe christian wrote: anonymous4reasons wrote: I hate the fact of loosing a beating heart, and I think abortion should be the last choice, but just because you make something illegal doesn't mean you stop it, you make it worse and unsafe.
Even though stop signs, red lights and speeding tickets don't eliminate all traffic accidents, they sure do cut down on the number which would occur if their were none.

Look at the bright side of making abortion illegal again. At least a million more Christian babies will be born every year in America, and half of them will grow up to be wonderful Christian fathers like me.

well if your looking at this through a religious spectrum, then those christians that are aborting babies are not being commandable christians.

joe christian · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 282

WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: Abortion will never be completely illegal in this country. I dont see that happeneing, not anytime soon anyway. If anything, Roe v Wade will be overturned, and it will once again be left up to the States to govern abortion.
Abortion as a popular form of birth control or population control may be outlawed while still being kept legal in cases where the mother's own life is at risk.

joe christian · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 282

Ek0nomik wrote: joe christian wrote: Look at the bright side of making abortion illegal again. At least a million more Christian babies will be born every year in America, and half of them will grow up to be wonderful Christian fathers like me.

All babies that are born are Christian? Interesting, never knew that.
85% of US babies are born to Christians. Of the 1.3 million abortions per year in the US, over one million would have been baptized every year for the past 35 years, had they survived the abortion holocaust of 46 million American babies by secular atheists and feminists.

Can't blame Christian fathers for that bloody carnage since no one even informed us or bothered to get our consent.

joe christian · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 282

thebreadloaf2003 wrote: joe christian wrote: Look at the bright side of making abortion illegal again. At least a million more Christian babies will be born every year in America, and half of them will grow up to be wonderful Christian fathers like me.

well if your looking at this through a religious spectrum, then those christians that are aborting babies are not being commandable christians.
No Christians are performing any abortions of babies to the best of our knowledge. All abortions in the US are performed by secular atheists and feminists.

sgtshortness · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 82

Is there any rule against double/triple/etc posting?

Any links/source for that statement?

joe christian · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 282

sgtshortness wrote: Is there any rule against double/triple/etc posting?

Any links/source for that statement?
What does your post relate or refer to?

spearsy23 · Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 5632 Location: Fulton, Ks

joe christian wrote: anonymous4reasons wrote: I hate the fact of loosing a beating heart, and I think abortion should be the last choice, but just because you make something illegal doesn't mean you stop it, you make it worse and unsafe.
Even though stop signs, red lights and speeding tickets don't eliminate all traffic accidents, they sure do cut down on the number which would occur if their were none.

Look at the bright side of making abortion illegal again. At least a million more Christian babies will be born every year in America, and half of them will grow up to be wonderful Christian fathers like me.

You're right, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS HUMAN KEEP ABORTION LEGAL. (j/k) :wink:

joe christian · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 282

The Underground wrote: joe christian wrote: Look at the bright side of making abortion illegal again. At least a million more Christian babies will be born every year in America, and half of them will grow up to be wonderful Christian fathers like me.

You're right, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS HUMAN KEEP ABORTION LEGAL. (j/k) :wink:

Yes, killing Christian babies has become a lucrative secular pastime and popular humanist sport.

Old nazis never die. They just resurface as social abortionists.

spearsy23 · Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 5632 Location: Fulton, Ks

joe christian wrote: The Underground wrote: joe christian wrote: Look at the bright side of making abortion illegal again. At least a million more Christian babies will be born every year in America, and half of them will grow up to be wonderful Christian fathers like me.

You're right, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS HUMAN KEEP ABORTION LEGAL. (j/k) :wink:

Yes, killing Christian babies has become a lucrative secular pastime and popular humanist sport.

Old nazis never die. They just resurface as social abortionists.
Nazi's wouldn't support someone having a choice.

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 6939 Location: Ohio

Tell me Joe, how is a baby born Christian?

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 8871

That's pretty arrogant to think that this issue applies only to Christians... This is an issue of choice for all Americans, regardless of race or creed. You cannot confine it to the Christian faith.

Also, you cannot assert that all children baptized are going to be actual Christians. People's beliefs change, and I personally believe that baptizing someone into a church while they are unable to express consent does not count an inducting them into a faith. No one is born into any religion, people are born without any concept of religion what so ever, and their beliefs start to develop as their life goes on.

joe christian wrote: Can't blame Christian fathers for that bloody carnage since no one even informed us or bothered to get our consent.

So... your entire group was left out of the loop while your wives were having abortions done on your potential children? It may not be you specifically, but Christians certainly are having abortions done, just like the other 1.3 million individuals, or so you assert.

joe christian wrote: No Christians are performing any abortions of babies to the best of our knowledge. All abortions in the US are performed by secular atheists and feminists.

That only shows ignorance and arrogance. Isn't the Christian faith supposed to involve compassion, understanding, and acceptance? Saying that all abortions in the United States are done by people of two certain groups only shows your own ignorance, and discrimination. Abortions are done on all mothers of all different backgrounds, including Christians. In fact, if 85% of all children born (or so you say) are Christian, that would mean that most of the abortions are being done on Christians. Regardless of the creed of the mother, it is people asserting their right to their own body.

joe christian wrote: Yes, killing Christian babies has become a lucrative secular pastime and popular humanist sport.

Old nazis never die. They just resurface as social abortionists.

I seriously hope you're kidding...

First, it is not killing, it is stopping a potential life from becoming an actual life. Much like an egg to a chicken. An egg is not yet a chicken, but rather the potential to become a chicken.

Second, it is not only Christian embryos. In fact, embryos don't even have a religion because they can't even think! Just because the mother follow's a certain religion does not mean that the child, even if it is born, will follow that same religion and harbor those same beliefs. I was born into a catholic family, yet I follow my own beliefs. I do not endorse any established church, Christian or otherwise, and I believe that each individual should follow their own beliefs instead of allowing others to decide them for you.

Third, do you seriously thing that having an abortion done is an act of pleasure? An abortion is done when the parents (or in your case, the mother, since you say that you have had no say in the matter) decide it to be done. I personally would never want an abortion done and any of my potential children, but I have no right to assert those morals onto other people, regardless of their religion.

"...secular pastime and popular humanist sport."

...

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. Like my fourth grade teacher used to say, "You can't argue with an idiot."

Fourth, there is absolutely no connection between Nazi's and those who follow the pro-choice policy. Those who stand for choice are not trying to make abortions mandatory, they are standing for the right of the people to have control of their own body without the government dictating their health for them. Saying that those who stand for choice are Nazis only shows you ignorance towards both the Nazi party, individual choice, and liberty.

joe christian wrote: ...wonderful Christian fathers like me.

Define, "wonderful", "Christian", and "father".

You can't really qualify yourself as a father, that is something that your kids would have to attest to. It is both arrogant and ignorant to assert yourself as "wonderful".

As I said before Christianity endorses a strong sense of compassion and acceptance for all creatures, especially humans. Since you've chosen to play the religious card, then I will too... In the Bible, Jesus is presented with a prostitute, which he saves from public stoning by saying "Let he without sin cast the first stone.", and then no stones are thrown. So not only did Jesus accept a prostitute, but he also proved that everyone has sin, even "wonderful Christian fathers".

Father is a term you have to earn. Being the biological parent of a child does not automatically make you a father, it takes love, compassion, patience, acceptance, understanding, and then love again to be considered a father (or mother). Based solely on your posts here, you don't seem compassionate, or accepting at all. Rather, you seem like an elitist that believes that Christians are superior to all other people. A "superior race" if you will, that people are born into with no choice in the matter what so ever, that don't participate in any evil, and that need to be protected so that the world can be a better place because of their existence.

Who's the Nazi now?

joe christian · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 282

The Underground wrote: joe christian wrote: Old nazis never die. They just resurface as social abortionists.
Nazi's wouldn't support someone having a choice.

Atheistic and secular US abortionists don't exactly give American fathers and their pre-natal babies much choice either.

Face it. Modern American abortionists are worse than nazis. They've butchered, slaughtered and killed 46 million American babies since 1970, and buried them in black plastic bags in mass unmarked garbage dumps.

So how is America any different than the Third Reich other than we allow Jewish doctors to kill Christian babies?

joe christian · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 282

Demonic Spoon wrote: Tell me Joe, how is a baby born Christian?
It is baptized.

Gilbert1908 · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 5248 Location: Boston, MA

joe christian wrote: The Underground wrote: joe christian wrote: Old nazis never die. They just resurface as social abortionists.
Nazi's wouldn't support someone having a choice.

Atheistic and secular US abortionists don't exactly give American fathers and their pre-natal babies much choice either.

Face it. Modern American abortionists are worse than nazis. They've butchered, slaughtered and killed 46 million American babies since 1970, and buried them in black plastic bags in mass unmarked garbage dumps.

So how is America any different than the Third Reich other than we allow Jewish doctors to kill Christian babies?

As a pro life person, I am offended by your implication and your demeanor.

You are kidding yourself if you don't believe that Christians are not getting abortions.

And frankly you insult my intelligence and those of anyone by using a clearly anti-semitic remark.

I am all for a passionate plea, but I am afraid you have crossed a couple of lines with such remarks.

And I for one want to make it clear you do not represent my position in favor of reducing or eliminating abortions and I do not believe you are representative of the majority who share such sentiments.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 8871

joe christian wrote: Atheistic and secular US abortionists don't exactly give American fathers and their pre-natal babies much choice either.

Of course they do! The parents of a potential child are the only ones who have a choice in the issue of abortion. The only way that statement could be remotely true is if the government was making the choice for you, which it isn't. In fact, your argument supports the pro-choice claims that the parents should be the only ones deciding this issue. So unless you either take no interest in you wife's health, then your argument is completely false, and is no basis for argument. (Completely ignoring the religious-racism and discrimination to all those "Non-Christian")

joe christian wrote: Face it. Modern American abortionists are worse than nazis. They've butchered, slaughtered and killed 46 million American babies since 1970, and buried them in black plastic bags in mass unmarked garbage dumps.

What fantasy world do you live in? First off, what evidence do you have to prove that doctors are putting embryos in "black plastic bags in mass unmarked garbage dumps"; and second of all, NO ONE IS AN ABORTIONIST. YOU ARE ATTACKING A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT DOES NOT EXIST. YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT THAT DOCTORS ARE PERFORMING MANDATORY ABORTIONS IS DOWNRIGHT FALSE. SO UNLESS YOU CAN PROVE OTHERWISE, STOP MAKING FALSE CLAIMS.

I apologize for the caps lock, but sheer frustration at human stupidity has put me at wits end.

joe christian wrote: So how is America any different than the Third Reich other than we allow Jewish doctors to kill Christian babies?

You really want to know how America is different than the "nazi Jewish doctors" you are so afraid of? Nazis brought about the indiscriminate slaughter of individuals with no consideration for their actions, almost like a sociopath. The Third Reich was an institute of evil that was built on the discrimination and subjection of one race of people to another. Jews were imprisoned and put though hardships that no one can even imagine. For me personally, you throwing around the term "Nazi Doctors" strikes a very personal note with me. My great-uncle was born in Poland, and spent four years of his life at Auschwitz, where he saw his father die before his very eyes, and his mother dragged away by guards. He is even missing two fingers on his right hand from where the guards cut his middle and pointer fingers off for trying to save his mother. Not only that, my grandpa fought in the Army at the Battle of Normandy at Utah Beach. He almost died trying to stop the Third Reich that you are now asserting as America. To go even further, my own mother is a doctor. Not only that, my girlfriend is Jewish, whom I have been with for nearly a year and a half, and whom I love dearly with all my heart, and you have no right to attack her religion. And to top it all off, I was baptized into the Christian faith at birth, was confirmed into the Catholic church, and I have now denounced my ties with Christianity, so I guess I was born a "Christian baby" (according to your logic), but I am not a Christian.

Moral of the story: Be careful when you play with racism.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 8871

Gilbert1908 wrote: joe christian wrote: The Underground wrote: joe christian wrote: Old nazis never die. They just resurface as social abortionists.
Nazi's wouldn't support someone having a choice.

Atheistic and secular US abortionists don't exactly give American fathers and their pre-natal babies much choice either.

Face it. Modern American abortionists are worse than nazis. They've butchered, slaughtered and killed 46 million American babies since 1970, and buried them in black plastic bags in mass unmarked garbage dumps.

So how is America any different than the Third Reich other than we allow Jewish doctors to kill Christian babies?

As a pro life person, I am offended by your implication and your demeanor.

You are kidding yourself if you don't believe that Christians are not getting abortions.

And frankly you insult my intelligence and those of anyone by using a clearly anti-semitic remark.

I am all for a passionate plea, but I am afraid you have crossed a couple of lines with such remarks.

And I for one want to make it clear you do not represent my position in favor of reducing or eliminating abortions and I do not believe you are representative of the majority who share such sentiments.

Don't worry, Gilbert, I've debated against you on other threads and I have no question of your intelligence or affiliations (only your views :wink:), and I do not group you or any other "pro-lifers" out there with him. This is an individual person who has made individual remarks, and I don't judge the groups based on the individual. Not only that, as you can see with my above post, he has made things very personal. My attacks are not against the entire pro-life camp, only against joe christian.