Political Crossfire Forums

sLiPpY · Joined: 24 Nov 2004 Posts: 10198

During last night's lecture, the topic of "Speaking in Tongues" came up. btw...I've been a little disappointed lately, in that ever since we hit the Letters of Paul, it's been more like going to church vs. class. But I'll get by... :-D

We have about three ladies in the class, that are Pentecostal. And it seemed they were a little embarrassed by the information the instructor brought to light...but I was quite please with the way he handled the continued questions with respect. i.e. I can only tell you what the Book of Acts says, which doesn't mean your own beliefs are not valid. However, for the exam...this is what the Book of Acts actually says.

I can't remember the exact verses and am feeling too slack to look them up, at the moment.

However, the instructor explained the concept like this.

1. Speaking in Tongues is a reversal of the Tower of Babel.
2. Prophesy is considered a higher spiritual gift vs. Speaking in Tongues.
3. If the speaker cannot be understood, i.e. the receiver is not hearing clearly the message of Christ in their own native language. It's just pure babel vs. "Speaking in Tongues."
4. The entire audience must be able to understand vs. having one interpreter that understands.
5. The gift, was specific to having the ability to spread the Gospel to the ends of the earth.
6. Some of the apostle's had the gift, especially those traveling to places such as India.

I'm not sure whether the instructor interjected his own beliefs in the presentation vs. it being right on. All I know is that if the topic comes up on a quiz, I'll answer it that way. ;)

Any differing opinions? Any other gifts, anyone would like to mention?

:-D

mgwisni · Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 73

I've learned a lot more about spiritual gifts lately. I know it's important for a Christian to figure out what his spiritual gift is and use it, but I've always been very unclear about trying to figure mine out.

Spiritual Gifts I've Been Told Of:
Speaking in Tongues, Prophecy, Music, Worship, Leadership, Outreach, and I'm sure others I just can't remember.

I don't think there are like a set 10 spiritual gifts. I think there are a lot, and it's very different for every person.

I doubt this has added much to the conversation, but I figured I'd post.

sLiPpY · Joined: 24 Nov 2004 Posts: 10198

mgwisni wrote: I've learned a lot more about spiritual gifts lately. I know it's important for a Christian to figure out what his spiritual gift is and use it, but I've always been very unclear about trying to figure mine out.

Spiritual Gifts I've Been Told Of:
Speaking in Tongues, Prophecy, Music, Worship, Leadership, Outreach, and I'm sure others I just can't remember.

I don't think there are like a set 10 spiritual gifts. I think there are a lot, and it's very different for every person.

I doubt this has added much to the conversation, but I figured I'd post.

Actually, that's a great post. :-D

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

1 Corinthians chapter 12, 13, and 14 should answer some of your questions about these spiritual gifts and their various purposes.

As for speaking in tongues there is more than one way it may happen and more than one purpose. This applies to all of the spiritual gifts.

As long as there is love in the world there will be spiritual gifts.

sLiPpY · Joined: 24 Nov 2004 Posts: 10198

Thanks for pointing out some relevant scriptures Capn'. They'll help me review for next weeks exam.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24707

sLiPpY wrote: Thanks for pointing out some relevant scriptures Capn'. They'll help me review for next weeks exam.

Why don't you listen to these?

http://www.joncourson.com/teaching/teachingsplay.asp?teaching=W645

http://www.joncourson.com/teaching/teachingsplay.asp?teaching=W646

http://www.joncourson.com/teaching/teachingsplay.asp?teaching=W647

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

sLiPpY wrote: Thanks for pointing out some relevant scriptures Capn'. They'll help me review for next weeks exam.

My pleasure. You should be able to find plenty of stuff that will give your instructor heartburn. :lol:

Kt · Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 3806

Don't you know that Spiritual "Gifts" are the work of satan?
If you don't wish for Satan to possess your body and use it as a tool to destroy your life, I'd refrain from such heathen-like behaviors immediately...

I will pray for your soul...

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

:lol:

connermt · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1526 Location: CMH OHIO

So are you 'guys' saying that there is a difference between 'spiritual' gifts & 'regular' gifts?

Jonah · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 928

connermt wrote: So are you 'guys' saying that there is a difference between 'spiritual' gifts & 'regular' gifts?

I believe there is. In my opinion, both are orchestrated by the Holy Spirit but a spiritual gift seems to involve an element of God's supernatural power in action.

Anyone know about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Lumina · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 19330

From I Corinthians 12:

"There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.

Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines."

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: Anyone know about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Tell us, Jonah.

Jonah · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 928

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Anyone know about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Tell us, Jonah.

Well, up until 6 months ago or so, I would have told anyone, "Yep, I've had the baptism of the Holy Spirit."

One day when I was on a Navy Ship, been prayed for and annointed with oil by some wild, tongues speaking brothers, I had the Holy Spirit come upon me hours later. It was amazing, wonderful, empowering.

Later I found out about tongues in regard to prayer, and God confirmed this to me hands down, despite all my doubts and "reasoning."

However, I read some writings by Smith Wigglesworth that convinced me that I've only had a taste, that since I haven't had the baptism with the evidence of speaking in tongues just as the bible portrays it, I haven't had the baptism! Now I used to scoff at this "evidence" thing, but he convinced me. He convinced me that when I do get the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, I will be empowered in a way that will result in super fruitfulness. Man, that excites me, because just a taste of the annointing was awesome...

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

Jonah wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Anyone know about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Tell us, Jonah.

Well, up until 6 months ago or so, I would have told anyone, "Yep, I've had the baptism of the Holy Spirit."

One day when I was on a Navy Ship, been prayed for and annointed with oil by some wild, tongues speaking brothers, I had the Holy Spirit come upon me hours later. It was amazing, wonderful, empowering.

Later I found out about tongues in regard to prayer, and God confirmed this to me hands down, despite all my doubts and "reasoning."

However, I read some writings by Smith Wigglesworth that convinced me that I've only had a taste, that since I haven't had the baptism with the evidence of speaking in tongues just as the bible portrays it, I haven't had the baptism! Now I used to scoff at this "evidence" thing, but he convinced me. He convinced me that when I do get the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, I will be empowered in a way that will result in super fruitfulness. Man, that excites me, because just a taste of the annointing was awesome...
All so-called "born-again Christians" would do well to read and re-read and then re-read this post several times. What passes for being "born again" in the modern American "Christian" community is little more than the beleivers own wild imagination, some peer pressure and a bit desire and longing to be part of the 'cool' club. It has almost nothing to do w/ anything spiritual or Divine.

To a first approximation, very nearly everyone who has posted on this board that they are "born again" is probably being subjected to the same experience that Jonah was subjected to: their "experience" is little more than a trick of the mind, along w/ perhaps the dim stirrings of the conscience. It's perhaps a necessary step on the long road towards being born again of the Spirit, but it's little more than a false summit (in "mountain climbing" language).

There is such a thing as being born again of the Spirit, but when it happens, it is unmistakable, it's signs and wonders are of the Soul and of God, and those Christians who have been so blessed are utterly and completely unmistakable. They are known quite literally by the fruit, and the fruits are those of love, mercy, kindness and healing. Perhaps most importantly, no such Christian who has ever been (truly) born again of the Spirit would ever publicly admit to it. This is perhaps the surest "sign" of spiritual rebirth, in case you are looking for one.

Jonah · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 928

By Baptism of the Holy Spirit, I'm not referring in any way to being born again.

I'm talking about empowerment for witnessing, etc.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: There is such a thing as being born again of the Spirit, but when it happens, it is unmistakable, it's signs and wonders are of the Soul and of God, and those Christians who have been so blessed are utterly and completely unmistakable.

Clue brick.

Quote: Mt 24:24 -
"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

Jonah · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 928

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: There is such a thing as being born again of the Spirit, but when it happens, it is unmistakable, it's signs and wonders are of the Soul and of God, and those Christians who have been so blessed are utterly and completely unmistakable.

Clue brick.

Quote: Mt 24:24 -
"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

What are you saying, Queasy?

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Jonah wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: There is such a thing as being born again of the Spirit, but when it happens, it is unmistakable, it's signs and wonders are of the Soul and of God, and those Christians who have been so blessed are utterly and completely unmistakable.

Clue brick.

Quote: Mt 24:24 -
"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

What are you saying, Queasy?

The "signs and wonders" that Paul associates here with being born again are false. People who see these signs and wonders, like he has seen, are mislead. He is in contact with a false christ. That's what happens when you mess around with channeling. Which he does.

Jonah · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 928

cap'n queasy wrote: Jonah wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: There is such a thing as being born again of the Spirit, but when it happens, it is unmistakable, it's signs and wonders are of the Soul and of God, and those Christians who have been so blessed are utterly and completely unmistakable.

Clue brick.

Quote: Mt 24:24 -
"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

What are you saying, Queasy?

The "signs and wonders" that Paul associates here with being born again are false. People who see these signs and wonders, like he has seen, are mislead. He is in contact with a false christ. That's what happens when you mess around with channeling. Which he does.

Oh, I see, good catch. I'm a little disturbed with his use of the word "Soul" in that post, you know?

The experience I described on the ship happened years after I was saved, no connection with being born again. It also happened like 5 hours after I was prayed for and annointed with oil, and to my knowledge none of those brothers was present when it happened. It only convinced me that God's zeal for the lost is very real and He has all the power we need for witnessing available to us for the asking.