Political Crossfire Forums

[Jonah]

This man is a Muslim living in India. Why would the village elders decide such a thing? :)

View this link for the story:

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=bizarre&id=4031888

[Saracen]

This is ridiculous. Divorce is still a legal process in Islam. It's not tit-for-tat dialogue.

[Jonah]

Saracen wrote: This is ridiculous. Divorce is still a legal process in Islam. It's not tit-for-tat dialogue.

OK, so you're saying that these village elders are exerting more authority than most of the Muslim world feels they have on the basis of Islamic doctrine?

[Saracen]

Jonah wrote: Saracen wrote: This is ridiculous. Divorce is still a legal process in Islam. It's not tit-for-tat dialogue.

OK, so you're saying that these village elders are exerting more authority than most of the Muslim world feels they have on the basis of Islamic doctrine?

Correctamundo. It's just inane and stupid IMO that they do this. Saying "I divorce you" must come with intent and with conscience and consciousness. Divorce is not a one-step thing, you know.

[Jonah]

Saracen wrote: Jonah wrote: Saracen wrote: This is ridiculous. Divorce is still a legal process in Islam. It's not tit-for-tat dialogue.

OK, so you're saying that these village elders are exerting more authority than most of the Muslim world feels they have on the basis of Islamic doctrine?

Correctamundo. It's just inane and stupid IMO that they do this. Saying "I divorce you" must come with intent and with conscience and consciousness. Divorce is not a one-step thing, you know.

Well that makes sense. That decision is totally devoid of common sense. Oh the monsters we've run from, the women we've ravaged, the kingdoms we've conquered in our dreams! This world would be a very different place if we were held accountable for the content of every dream. :)

[Saracen]

Jonah, I hope you don't mind me asking, but what's your denomination?

[Jonah]

Saracen wrote: Jonah, I hope you don't mind me asking, but what's your denomination?

I don't mind you asking. I was raised a Catholic until age 18, was born-again at age 21, was a pretty conservative mainstream Protestant until about age 30, then God made it clear to me that all the miracles of the Bible are intended for our use, not just Jesus and the early church, so now I'm a Pentacostal Christian.

[Jonah]

How about you? Have you been an active Muslim all your life? Are there denominations within Islam?

[Saracen]

Jonah wrote: How about you? Have you been an active Muslim all your life? Are there denominations within Islam?

Since birth, yes. I'm a Middle Easterner. A Sunnite Arab to be exact, and a Palestinian to be specific. When I was a wee lad, before I was ten years old that is, I started reading the Koran, and memorized some passages from it. When I became 10 years old, I started finding God through prayer, and I observed my first fasting of Ramadan at that time. To date, I have fasted in the Ramadan of every year and have read the entire Koran several times. So you could say that I started becoming an active Muslim at age 10.

Now as for denominations, there are many, but most of them have political differences more than religious differences. Believe it or not, the Sunnites and the Shiites are political sects, not religious ones, though religious practices differed later on. There are also sects like the Ahmadis, who are sometimes not even considered a Muslim denomination.. Then you have Sufism, which is Islamic mysticism, but ironically, I believe that mysticism goes against the core beliefs of Islam in that you find God through prayer, because you are communicating to His Holiness Who is Transcendent, not trying to become one with what is wholly other (which is mysticism). Also, like Christianity, there are "splinter religions" that evolved from Islam. Baha'ism and Babism are to Islam as Mormonism is to Christianity.

Hope that helps. :)

[Jonah]

Forgive me for being rather ignorant about Islam. I have a few more questions.

Does the average Muslim consider himself a son of Ishmael?

More personally, if I can ask, how does Mohammed fit into your view of God or God's program. He's your... savior? What does he mean to you?

[Saracen]

That's alright. We are here to help.

Jonah wrote: Does the average Muslim consider himself a son of Ishmael?

A spiritual descendent, yes, similar to how the Jews consider themselves to be descendents of Isaac.

Jonah wrote: More personally, if I can ask, how does Mohammed fit into your view of God or God's program. He's your... savior? What does he mean to you?

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) isn't really our savior, but he is known as the Seal of the Prophets that came before him. As you might or might not now, we consider all the prophets and messengers mentioned in the Bible and the Torah. He came and finalized the Revelation of God and fulfilled what was in the OT and NT by spreading the Word of God. Now, as regards to being a savior, he is not. The Messiah, Jesus Christ, isn't considered a savior either, but is also a prophet. They were just people who were special in that God revealed to them His Word, and spread it. Because of the Prophet's (pbuh) wisdom and his message, we revere him greatly. The most devout of Muslims love him more than they love themselves and their parents.

P.S. Jonah in Arabic is Yunus.

[Jonah]

Saracen wrote: That's alright. We are here to help.

Jonah wrote: Does the average Muslim consider himself a son of Ishmael?

A spiritual descendent, yes, similar to how the Jews consider themselves to be descendents of Isaac.

Jonah wrote: More personally, if I can ask, how does Mohammed fit into your view of God or God's program. He's your... savior? What does he mean to you?

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) isn't really our savior, but he is known as the Seal of the Prophets that came before him. As you might or might not now, we consider all the prophets and messengers mentioned in the Bible and the Torah. He came and finalized the Revelation of God and fulfilled what was in the OT and NT by spreading the Word of God. Now, as regards to being a savior, he is not. The Messiah, Jesus Christ, isn't considered a savior either, but is also a prophet. They were just people who were special in that God revealed to them His Word, and spread it. Because of the Prophet's (pbuh) wisdom and his message, we revere him greatly. The most devout of Muslims love him more than they love themselves and their parents.

P.S. Jonah in Arabic is Yunus.

Since Mohammad is considered the Seal of the Prophets, is he superior to Jesus Christ? You mentioned the OT & NT; is what Jesus has said part of your holy scriptures, or is it considered of less authority than other writings, just as Jews consider the Prophets of less authority than the Torah?

Since neither Mohammad nor Jesus are considered personal "saviors" to the Muslim, I would naturally conclude that Islam is a less personal, less emotional religion than Christianity. Would this be a wrong conclusion?

What does Saracen mean?

[Saracen]

Don't go away, Jonah. I'll answer your questions as soon as I have time on my hands, but for the time being, we consider all prophets and messengers equal.

Saracen means Arabian Knight, but there's a lot of history regarding that name.

[Saracen]

Jonah wrote: Since Mohammad is considered the Seal of the Prophets, is he superior to Jesus Christ?

No, but he sent the Final Revelation, and was thus unique as the Last Prophet, and God's Apostle. Jesus and Moses are revered greatly in the Koran, and in fact Moses and Muhammad have more in common pertaining to their prophetic experiences.

Jonah wrote: You mentioned the OT & NT; is what Jesus has said part of your holy scriptures, or is it considered of less authority than other writings, just as Jews consider the Prophets of less authority than the Torah?

If you mean that the Koran is the highest authority for Muslims, then I would say yes.

Jonah wrote: Since neither Mohammad nor Jesus are considered personal "saviors" to the Muslim, I would naturally conclude that Islam is a less personal, less emotional religion than Christianity. Would this be a wrong conclusion?

Unfortunately, yes. Islam is quite personal when it comes to matters pertaining to our daily lives and our livelihoods, and our mannerisms, etc. Emotion is something that we are taught to control and are rewarded for it when it comes to expressing our devotion to our religion, our God, our Prophet, and of course our fellow human beings. But if this is not the answer you were looking for, perhaps you can rephrase your question?

[Jonah]

Saracen wrote: Jonah wrote: Since Mohammad is considered the Seal of the Prophets, is he superior to Jesus Christ?

No, but he sent the Final Revelation, and was thus unique as the Last Prophet, and God's Apostle. Jesus and Moses are revered greatly in the Koran, and in fact Moses and Muhammad have more in common pertaining to their prophetic experiences.

Jonah wrote: You mentioned the OT & NT; is what Jesus has said part of your holy scriptures, or is it considered of less authority than other writings, just as Jews consider the Prophets of less authority than the Torah?

If you mean that the Koran is the highest authority for Muslims, then I would say yes.

Jonah wrote: Since neither Mohammad nor Jesus are considered personal "saviors" to the Muslim, I would naturally conclude that Islam is a less personal, less emotional religion than Christianity. Would this be a wrong conclusion?

Unfortunately, yes. Islam is quite personal when it comes to matters pertaining to our daily lives and our livelihoods, and our mannerisms, etc. Emotion is something that we are taught to control and are rewarded for it when it comes to expressing our devotion to our religion, our God, our Prophet, and of course our fellow human beings. But if this is not the answer you were looking for, perhaps you can rephrase your question?

What Christians believe Jesus said must be different than what Muslims believe - different scriptures, I suppose. I'm fairly certain that Muslims wouldn't consider the Christain New Testament to be part of their holy scriptures, right? Just as Christians wouldn't consider the Koran to be part of theirs.

So Islam is personal when it comes to matters pertaining to your daily lives, livelyhoods, mannerisms, etc. I guess I don't understand each of those categories very well. Do you have a few examples?

[Saracen]

Jonah wrote: What Christians believe Jesus said must be different than what Muslims believe - different scriptures, I suppose. I'm fairly certain that Muslims wouldn't consider the Christain New Testament to be part of their holy scriptures, right? Just as Christians wouldn't consider the Koran to be part of theirs.

Yes and no. Whatever contradicts with the Koran in the OT and NT is already fulfilled and not considered part of Islamic belief. However, both the OT and NT are read by many Muslims and are still considered sacred scriptures, even though we do not consider them much.

Jonah wrote: So Islam is personal when it comes to matters pertaining to your daily lives, livelyhoods, mannerisms, etc. I guess I don't understand each of those categories very well. Do you have a few examples?

Sure. You would find many teachings of the Koran and Hadith that pertain to everyday actions and beliefs. For example, men should limit contact with strange women (women who are not married or related to the person in question). Also, the Prophet's actions, recorded in the Hadith, are followed everyday by Muslims. For example, the Prophet used to eat using his right hand, and thus we are prescribed to do the same (say, holding forks and using them to eat, that is). There are a lot of examples, but these are the only ones that came into my mind first.

[Jonah]

Saracen wrote: Jonah wrote: What Christians believe Jesus said must be different than what Muslims believe - different scriptures, I suppose. I'm fairly certain that Muslims wouldn't consider the Christain New Testament to be part of their holy scriptures, right? Just as Christians wouldn't consider the Koran to be part of theirs.

Yes and no. Whatever contradicts with the Koran in the OT and NT is already fulfilled and not considered part of Islamic belief. However, both the OT and NT are read by many Muslims and are still considered sacred scriptures, even though we do not consider them much.

Jonah wrote: So Islam is personal when it comes to matters pertaining to your daily lives, livelyhoods, mannerisms, etc. I guess I don't understand each of those categories very well. Do you have a few examples?

Sure. You would find many teachings of the Koran and Hadith that pertain to everyday actions and beliefs. For example, men should limit contact with strange women (women who are not married or related to the person in question). Also, the Prophet's actions, recorded in the Hadith, are followed everyday by Muslims. For example, the Prophet used to eat using his right hand, and thus we are prescribed to do the same (say, holding forks and using them to eat, that is). There are a lot of examples, but these are the only ones that came into my mind first.

You know, the Christian looks at much of the NT as a fulfillment of the OT. The only prophesies in the NT pertain to the end of this age, so I'm fuzzy on how those can be viewed as already fullfilled. The prophesies are contained in the Christian gospels, and in the book of Revelation.

One more big question before I close for the day: In a few sentences, what would you as a Muslim say is God's ultimate goal or purpose in creating mankind in this age and/or into the next?

[Saracen]

Jonah wrote: One more big question before I close for the day: In a few sentences, what would you as a Muslim say is God's ultimate goal or purpose in creating mankind in this age and/or into the next?

I'll quote what God said in the Koran.

God wrote: [51:56]I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.

So in the end of the day, it all comes down to fearing God and worshipping Him, and thanking Him for all what He has given us.

If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask. You are more than welcome here.