Political Crossfire Forums

LetsGetReal · Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 5791 Location: Peoria, AZ

Would I be able to visit mecca? (not sure if thats spelled right) I really want to see this place for myself, but from I've been told, since i'm christian I wouldn't be allowed?

On a side note would it be safe right now for me to visit egypt, its my dream to see the pyramids, sphynx, and all the sites in their shining glory?

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16688 Location: On Earth

Well, to be honest, I don't think that non-Muslims are allowed to visit Mecca, but on the other hand, the Middle East is indeed a safe, tolerant and open region. You will be able to go wherever you want whenever you want in the Middle East. Egypt's a fine country, but you'll also like Kuwait, Jordan, Lebanon and the UAE.

LetsGetReal · Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 5791 Location: Peoria, AZ

Thats quite sad because I truly wanted to see the city... Is Egypt safe tho, I've always been told no?

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 7106 Location: Ohio

Just did some searching and I did not find anything PROHIBITING Christians from being in Mecca...but if ya go, I'd pack a gun or two. Most likely quite a few fanatics around there, and when I was searching, found a couple stories of Christians gone "missing" in Mecca.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16688 Location: On Earth

LetsGetReal wrote: Thats quite sad because I truly wanted to see the city... Is Egypt safe tho, I've always been told no?

Parts of Cairo, I believe, are not nice places to go to in the middle of the night. However, our resident Egyptian member, pharaoh, can tell you more.

SmarT · Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 1

non-muslims arent allowed in mecca, I've been there before a couple of years ago

bout 10 km before u enter mecca theres a special road with a sign reading for non-muslims which probably doesnt pass through that city.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16688 Location: On Earth

SmarT wrote: non-muslims arent allowed in mecca, I've been there before a couple of years ago

bout 10 km before u enter mecca theres a special road with a sign reading for non-muslims which probably doesnt pass through that city.

Yep. However, Glorfindel knows more about this subject. He's a Saudi poster here...

And welcome to the forums.

Il Principe · Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 721 Location: Fortress Europe

If you're a non-muslim and want to visit mecca, just get a degree in nuclear engineering, and with logic and a little luck you could be standing in Mecca quite soon.

pharaoh · Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:50 am Post subject:

Il Principe wrote: If you're a non-muslim and want to visit mecca, just get a degree in nuclear engineering, and with logic and a little luck you could be standing in Mecca quite soon.

How niiiiiice, a german wanna nuke other nations....niiiiiiiice :lol:

LetsGetReal · Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 5791 Location: Peoria, AZ

I think he was actually saying if you knew how to build a nuke I'm sure they would graciously accept you in mecca :wink:

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16688 Location: On Earth

LetsGetReal wrote: I think he was actually saying if you knew how to build a nuke I'm sure they would graciously accept you in mecca :wink:

I've heard about that story... the one regarding those Pakistani engineers? Really ridiculous IMO.

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

Saracen wrote: SmarT wrote: non-muslims arent allowed in mecca, I've been there before a couple of years ago

bout 10 km before u enter mecca theres a special road with a sign reading for non-muslims which probably doesnt pass through that city.

Yep. However, Glorfindel knows more about this subject. He's a Saudi poster here...

And welcome to the forums.

SmaT is right... there is a sign on the road to Mecca that says that non-muslim are not allowed to go past that point and must take the next coming exit...

and No you would not be wlecomed to Mecca if you had a degree in nuclear science... in fact it is prohibited for muslims to fight in that city.. and only cops are allowed to carry guns in that city...

even the prophet when he was planning to conquer Mecca when it was under Quraish's rule..he had to ask God for permission to conquer that city and he was ordered not to start the fight and try to just enter the city and take control of it without fighting... and there was only one battle in that city when Khalid Ibn Alwaleed faced a resistance when he entered Mecca from the South...but the main army with the prophet did not get involve in any fighting and Mecca was taken peacefully.

the prophet even before he entered Mecca he issued a few announcements telling the people of Mecca that they would not be attacked if they stayed in Almasjid AlHaram or in the house of the ruler of Mecca at that time ( Abu sofian)... or if they did not attack the his army...

so whatever you read in some German magazine... even if it proved true in the future... the Saudi government knows better than to put Mecca or Almedina in any situation that would give non-muslims the chance to find an excuse to enter them or even attack them....( even though I know that no one would never dare to do such thing)

peace

LetsGetReal · Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 5791 Location: Peoria, AZ

Haha, well i hope you didn't think I wanted to attack it but I just want to see it, is there a reason why I can't enter Mecca I know its a religious city. But so is the vatican, the weeping wall, and countless other christian/jewish sites, but I'm allowed there even tho im not jewish, and is there other sites I couldn't go to?

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16688 Location: On Earth

LetsGetReal wrote: Haha, well i hope you didn't think I wanted to attack it but I just want to see it, is there a reason why I can't enter Mecca I know its a religious city. But so is the vatican, the weeping wall, and countless other christian/jewish sites, but I'm allowed there even tho im not jewish, and is there other sites I couldn't go to?

Pertaining to Islamic sites, there are a lot of other sites you can go to. For example, you have the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul as well as the other splendidly built mosques in the former Byzantine capital, as well as your local mosques in the U.S. Visiting mosques is in fact welcomed for non-Muslims, because it allows you to get into contact with the devout community that goes to worship there, and learn more about their beliefs. However, Muslims, as much as they are allowed to go visit Holy Sites, must respect the rules and the sanctity of these sites. When the Caliph Umar visited the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, he refused to pray there because he feared it would violate the sanctity of the building as a church.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24707

Quote: When the Caliph Umar visited the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, he refused to pray there because he feared it would violate the sanctity of the building as a church.

Why would it....if Allah is the same as God?

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16688 Location: On Earth

John wrote: Quote: When the Caliph Umar visited the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, he refused to pray there because he feared it would violate the sanctity of the building as a church.

Why would it....if Allah is the same as God?

It's not that, John. The Caliph Umar respected the function of the Church: to serve for Christian worship, not Islamic worship. Yes, we do indeed pray to the same God, and you raise a good point, but the way we approach Him is different, and we must not interfere with how each of us, according to our individual beliefs, worship Him.

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

Saracen wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: Haha, well i hope you didn't think I wanted to attack it but I just want to see it, is there a reason why I can't enter Mecca I know its a religious city. But so is the vatican, the weeping wall, and countless other christian/jewish sites, but I'm allowed there even tho im not jewish, and is there other sites I couldn't go to?

Pertaining to Islamic sites, there are a lot of other sites you can go to. For example, you have the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul as well as the other splendidly built mosques in the former Byzantine capital, as well as your local mosques in the U.S. Visiting mosques is in fact welcomed for non-Muslims, because it allows you to get into contact with the devout community that goes to worship there, and learn more about their beliefs. However, Muslims, as much as they are allowed to go visit Holy Sites, must respect the rules and the sanctity of these sites. When the Caliph Umar visited the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, he refused to pray there because he feared it would violate the sanctity of the building as a church.

Moath he did not pray in the church not because he did not want to violate its sanctity... but he did not want to give muslims in the future and after he dies a claim in it be saying that Omar himself prayed there once..and by doing so he made sure that the the conditions in the Treaty of Ramlah is kept and honored even after his death...

peace

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16688 Location: On Earth

Glorfindel wrote: Saracen wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: Haha, well i hope you didn't think I wanted to attack it but I just want to see it, is there a reason why I can't enter Mecca I know its a religious city. But so is the vatican, the weeping wall, and countless other christian/jewish sites, but I'm allowed there even tho im not jewish, and is there other sites I couldn't go to?

Pertaining to Islamic sites, there are a lot of other sites you can go to. For example, you have the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul as well as the other splendidly built mosques in the former Byzantine capital, as well as your local mosques in the U.S. Visiting mosques is in fact welcomed for non-Muslims, because it allows you to get into contact with the devout community that goes to worship there, and learn more about their beliefs. However, Muslims, as much as they are allowed to go visit Holy Sites, must respect the rules and the sanctity of these sites. When the Caliph Umar visited the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, he refused to pray there because he feared it would violate the sanctity of the building as a church.

Moath he did not pray in the church not because he did not want to violate its sanctity... but he did not want to give muslims in the future and after he dies a claim in it be saying that Omar himself prayed there once..and by doing so he made sure that the the conditions in the Treaty of Ramlah is kept and honored even after his death...

peace

Which in the end is pretty much the same thing. I still stay that preserving the sanctity of the holy places of other religions is a duty that Muslim rulers of any time and place should fulfill: after all, Islam is a tolerant religion, and the utmost tolerance should be exhibited should God reward us in the end for our benevolence.

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

Saracen wrote: Glorfindel wrote: Saracen wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: Haha, well i hope you didn't think I wanted to attack it but I just want to see it, is there a reason why I can't enter Mecca I know its a religious city. But so is the vatican, the weeping wall, and countless other christian/jewish sites, but I'm allowed there even tho im not jewish, and is there other sites I couldn't go to?

Pertaining to Islamic sites, there are a lot of other sites you can go to. For example, you have the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul as well as the other splendidly built mosques in the former Byzantine capital, as well as your local mosques in the U.S. Visiting mosques is in fact welcomed for non-Muslims, because it allows you to get into contact with the devout community that goes to worship there, and learn more about their beliefs. However, Muslims, as much as they are allowed to go visit Holy Sites, must respect the rules and the sanctity of these sites. When the Caliph Umar visited the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, he refused to pray there because he feared it would violate the sanctity of the building as a church.

Moath he did not pray in the church not because he did not want to violate its sanctity... but he did not want to give muslims in the future and after he dies a claim in it be saying that Omar himself prayed there once..and by doing so he made sure that the the conditions in the Treaty of Ramlah is kept and honored even after his death...

peace

Which in the end is pretty much the same thing. I still stay that preserving the sanctity of the holy places of other religions is a duty that Muslim rulers of any time and place should fulfill: after all, Islam is a tolerant religion, and the utmost tolerance should be exhibited should God reward us in the end for our benevolence.

that's true...

Il Principe · Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 721 Location: Fortress Europe

Saracen wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: I think he was actually saying if you knew how to build a nuke I'm sure they would graciously accept you in mecca :wink:

I've heard about that story... the one regarding those Pakistani engineers? Really ridiculous IMO.

Yeah I meant that, not that I care about a mushroom cloud over mecca, that would actually be a fairly productive move, if you nuke mecca then allah doesent exist, as he would not permit his holy city to be destroyed.