Political Crossfire Forums

[Gilbert1908]

mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Plodder wrote: Quote: Lost Soul wrote:
It is the potential life that be being ended, not an actual life.


Potential life is gametes. Actual life is the fusion of gametes to form a distinct individual.
those are egg+sperm. if a sperm and an egg are floating nest to eachother, there is potential life right there, but when the fuse thate become life.

But not human life. Humans, by definition, are self-aware.

There are many defensible positions for abortion, but basing your abortion argument on the fact that an embryo is NOT human life is simply contrary to comon sense and science.

You may claim personhood since that is indefinable and a philosophical argument, but as I keep posting over and over again, denying an embryo is a human life is like denying the earth revolves around the sun.



No, it's more like denying that a lump of coal is a diamond, or that an acorn is an oak tree.

Do you oppose taking people who are brain dead off of life support?

I would request ANY medical reference which is contrary to the simple staement that a human embryo is an individual human life? I have provided excepts from embryology text books and quotes from numerous physicians.

If you want to debate the philosophical or legal question as to what constitutes a "person" that is a different matter, but there is simply no credible contrary position that a human embryo is anything but a new individual human life.

[mattwa33193]

Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Plodder wrote: Quote: Lost Soul wrote:
It is the potential life that be being ended, not an actual life.


Potential life is gametes. Actual life is the fusion of gametes to form a distinct individual.
those are egg+sperm. if a sperm and an egg are floating nest to eachother, there is potential life right there, but when the fuse thate become life.

But not human life. Humans, by definition, are self-aware.

There are many defensible positions for abortion, but basing your abortion argument on the fact that an embryo is NOT human life is simply contrary to comon sense and science.

You may claim personhood since that is indefinable and a philosophical argument, but as I keep posting over and over again, denying an embryo is a human life is like denying the earth revolves around the sun.



No, it's more like denying that a lump of coal is a diamond, or that an acorn is an oak tree.

Do you oppose taking people who are brain dead off of life support?

I would request ANY medical reference which is contrary to the simple staement that a human embryo is an individual human life? I have provided excepts from embryology text books and quotes from numerous physicians.

If you want to debate the philosophical or legal question as to what constitutes a "person" that is a different matter, but there is simply no credible contrary position that a human embryo is anything but a new individual human life.

Is fetus that has been carried by a cow for 1 day considered a cow? No.
Is fetus that has been carried by a cat for 1 day considered a cat? No.

[Gilbert1908]

mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Plodder wrote: Quote: Lost Soul wrote:
It is the potential life that be being ended, not an actual life.


Potential life is gametes. Actual life is the fusion of gametes to form a distinct individual.
those are egg+sperm. if a sperm and an egg are floating nest to eachother, there is potential life right there, but when the fuse thate become life.

But not human life. Humans, by definition, are self-aware.

There are many defensible positions for abortion, but basing your abortion argument on the fact that an embryo is NOT human life is simply contrary to comon sense and science.

You may claim personhood since that is indefinable and a philosophical argument, but as I keep posting over and over again, denying an embryo is a human life is like denying the earth revolves around the sun.



No, it's more like denying that a lump of coal is a diamond, or that an acorn is an oak tree.

Do you oppose taking people who are brain dead off of life support?

I would request ANY medical reference which is contrary to the simple staement that a human embryo is an individual human life? I have provided excepts from embryology text books and quotes from numerous physicians.

If you want to debate the philosophical or legal question as to what constitutes a "person" that is a different matter, but there is simply no credible contrary position that a human embryo is anything but a new individual human life.

Is fetus that has been carried by a cow for 1 day considered a cow? No.
Is fetus that has been carried by a cat for 1 day considered a cat? No.

Both are of their species and alive, just as every human life begins at conception, not according to ME but according to embryology.

[mattwa33193]

Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Plodder wrote: Quote: Lost Soul wrote:
It is the potential life that be being ended, not an actual life.


Potential life is gametes. Actual life is the fusion of gametes to form a distinct individual.
those are egg+sperm. if a sperm and an egg are floating nest to eachother, there is potential life right there, but when the fuse thate become life.

But not human life. Humans, by definition, are self-aware.

There are many defensible positions for abortion, but basing your abortion argument on the fact that an embryo is NOT human life is simply contrary to comon sense and science.

You may claim personhood since that is indefinable and a philosophical argument, but as I keep posting over and over again, denying an embryo is a human life is like denying the earth revolves around the sun.



No, it's more like denying that a lump of coal is a diamond, or that an acorn is an oak tree.

Do you oppose taking people who are brain dead off of life support?

I would request ANY medical reference which is contrary to the simple staement that a human embryo is an individual human life? I have provided excepts from embryology text books and quotes from numerous physicians.

If you want to debate the philosophical or legal question as to what constitutes a "person" that is a different matter, but there is simply no credible contrary position that a human embryo is anything but a new individual human life.

Is fetus that has been carried by a cow for 1 day considered a cow? No.
Is fetus that has been carried by a cat for 1 day considered a cat? No.

Both are of their species and alive, just as every human life begins at conception, not according to ME but according to embryology.

The only thing a fetus at say, 1 week has in common with its mother is that it has 46 chromosomes (usually) and similar DNA. Is that the requirement? Can Downs Syndrome babies be aborted?

[Plodder]

bad argumant, they are humans eevn if they have that problem. your point is shallow and sarcastic. Please keep it off of the forums.

[Gilbert1908]

mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Plodder wrote: Quote: Lost Soul wrote:
It is the potential life that be being ended, not an actual life.


Potential life is gametes. Actual life is the fusion of gametes to form a distinct individual.
those are egg+sperm. if a sperm and an egg are floating nest to eachother, there is potential life right there, but when the fuse thate become life.

But not human life. Humans, by definition, are self-aware.

There are many defensible positions for abortion, but basing your abortion argument on the fact that an embryo is NOT human life is simply contrary to comon sense and science.

You may claim personhood since that is indefinable and a philosophical argument, but as I keep posting over and over again, denying an embryo is a human life is like denying the earth revolves around the sun.



No, it's more like denying that a lump of coal is a diamond, or that an acorn is an oak tree.

Do you oppose taking people who are brain dead off of life support?

I would request ANY medical reference which is contrary to the simple staement that a human embryo is an individual human life? I have provided excepts from embryology text books and quotes from numerous physicians.

If you want to debate the philosophical or legal question as to what constitutes a "person" that is a different matter, but there is simply no credible contrary position that a human embryo is anything but a new individual human life.

Is fetus that has been carried by a cow for 1 day considered a cow? No.
Is fetus that has been carried by a cat for 1 day considered a cat? No.

Both are of their species and alive, just as every human life begins at conception, not according to ME but according to embryology.

The only thing a fetus at say, 1 week has in common with its mother is that it has 46 chromosomes (usually) and similar DNA. Is that the requirement? Can Downs Syndrome babies be aborted?

What it has in common with its mother is that it is both human and alive, something you have denied.

[mattwa33193]

Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Plodder wrote: Quote: Lost Soul wrote:
It is the potential life that be being ended, not an actual life.


Potential life is gametes. Actual life is the fusion of gametes to form a distinct individual.
those are egg+sperm. if a sperm and an egg are floating nest to eachother, there is potential life right there, but when the fuse thate become life.

But not human life. Humans, by definition, are self-aware.

There are many defensible positions for abortion, but basing your abortion argument on the fact that an embryo is NOT human life is simply contrary to comon sense and science.

You may claim personhood since that is indefinable and a philosophical argument, but as I keep posting over and over again, denying an embryo is a human life is like denying the earth revolves around the sun.



No, it's more like denying that a lump of coal is a diamond, or that an acorn is an oak tree.

Do you oppose taking people who are brain dead off of life support?

I would request ANY medical reference which is contrary to the simple staement that a human embryo is an individual human life? I have provided excepts from embryology text books and quotes from numerous physicians.

If you want to debate the philosophical or legal question as to what constitutes a "person" that is a different matter, but there is simply no credible contrary position that a human embryo is anything but a new individual human life.

Is fetus that has been carried by a cow for 1 day considered a cow? No.
Is fetus that has been carried by a cat for 1 day considered a cat? No.

Both are of their species and alive, just as every human life begins at conception, not according to ME but according to embryology.

The only thing a fetus at say, 1 week has in common with its mother is that it has 46 chromosomes (usually) and similar DNA. Is that the requirement? Can Downs Syndrome babies be aborted?

What it has in common with its mother is that it is both human and alive, something you have denied.

Not human yet. A collection of cells that can eventually become human.

[War Approving Democrat]

no i have never seen one but i support abortion.

[spearsy23]

Gilbert1908 wrote: Both are of their species and alive, just as every human life begins at conception, not according to ME but according to embryology.

Embryology is irrelevant, not according to ME but according to the judicial system.

[EugenicHegemony]

Ek0nomik wrote: I posted No, but I support abortion. However, Sailor Moon did post a video of a late term abortion being done in which the childs skull has to be destroyed. I watched the full video. I haven't seen one in person however. Link please.

[George W Bush]

Seeing an abortion wouldnt change my mind about a womans right to choose.

[Plodder]

so tby your post you have not seen one

[steen]

Gilbert1908 wrote: I would request ANY medical reference which is contrary to the simple staement that a human embryo is an individual human life? Rather, what medical reference claims that it IS an individual?

Quote: I have provided excepts from embryology text books and quotes from numerous physicians. Claiming the embryo to be an individual life? Could you point to that?

[steen]

Plodder wrote: so tby your post you have not seen one They are no big deal. Now amputations and open heart surgery, they are very different and much more vividly disturbing. Guess we should outlaw them.

[Gilbert1908]

steen wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: I would request ANY medical reference which is contrary to the simple staement that a human embryo is an individual human life? Rather, what medical reference claims that it IS an individual?

Quote: I have provided excepts from embryology text books and quotes from numerous physicians. Claiming the embryo to be an individual life? Could you point to that?

"Zygote: This cell results from the union of an oocyte and a sperm. A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo). The expression fertilized ovum refers to a secondary oocyte that is impregnated by a sperm; when fertilization is complete, the oocyte becomes a zygote." Pernaud & Moore Pg.2 (common textbook in Embryology courses)

"... [W]e begin our description of the developing human with the formation and differentiation of the male and female sex cells or gametes, which will unite at fertilization to initiate the embryonic development of a new individual." Larsen Pg 1 (Human Embryology Textbook)

"Fertilization is an important landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed” O'Rahilly, R. and F. Muller. 1996. Human Embryology & Teratology, Wiley-Liss, New York.

"Although it is customary to divide human development into prenatal (before birth) and postnatal (after birth) periods, birth is merely a dramatic event during development resulting in a change in environment. Development does not stop at birth. Important changes, in addition to growth, occur after birth (e.g., development of teeth and female breasts). The brain triples in weight between birth and 16 years; most developmental changes are completed by the age of 25." Moore and Persaud, p. 2;

"It is the penetration of the ovum by a spermatozoa and the resulting mingling of the chromosomal material each brings to the union that culminates the process of fertilization and initiates the life of a new individual. Every one of the higher animals starts life as a single cell the fertilized ovum. The union of two such sex cells to form a zygote constitutes the process of fertilization and initiates the life of a new individual." Bradley M. Patten, M.D. Foundations of Embryology (3rd Edition, 1968), New York City: McGraw-Hill.

"The term conception refers to the union of the male and female pronuclear elements of procreation from which a new living being develops. It is synonymous with the terms fecundation, impregnation, and fertilization ... The zygote thus formed represents the beginning of a new life". J.P. Greenhill and E.A. Freidman. Biological Principles and Modern Practice of Obstetrics. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Publishers. Pages 17 and 23.

"The formation, maturation and meeting of a male and female sex cell are all preliminary to their actual union into a combined cell, or zygote, which definitely marks the beginning of a new individual." Leslie Arey. Developmental Anatomy (7th Edition, 1974). Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Publishers.

"Zygote. This cell results from fertilization of an oocyte by a sperm and is the beginning of a human being ... Development begins at fertilization, when a sperm unites with an oocyte to form a zygote. Each of us started life as a cell called a zygote." K.L. Moore. The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology (2nd Ed., 1977). Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Publishers. Pages 1 and 12.


"A human being develops from a mass of living material no larger than a pinhead, material contributed by both parents and capable of living and growing for a lifetime ... This genetic makeup was established at the beginning of your life, when a haploid egg and a haploid sperm combined to produce a diploid zygote, your first somatic cell." J.H. Otto and A. Towle. Modern Biology. New York City: Holt, Rinehart & Winston. 1969.

"Every time a sperm cell and ovum unite, a new being is created which is alive and will continue to live unless its death is brought about by some specific condition." E.L. Potter, M.D., and J.M. Craig, M.D. Pathology of the Fetus and the Infant. 3rd Edition. Chicago: Year Book Medical Publishers, 1975, page vii.


"From conception the child is a complex, dynamic, rapidly-growing individual. At fertilization, a new and unique individual is created which, although receiving one-half of its chromosomes from each parent, is really unlike either." B. Heffernan, "The Early Biography of Every Man," Abortion and Social Justice, Sheed and Ward.

"Physicians, biologists, and other scientists agree that conception marks the beginning of the life of a human being a being that is alive and is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological, and scientific writings ...Those witnesses who testified that science cannot say whether unborn children are human beings were speaking in every instance to the value question rather than the scientific question. No witness raised any evidence to refute the biological fact that from the moment of human conception there exists a distinct individual being who is alive and is of the human species." Report of the Senate Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to the Senate Judiciary Committee S-158, 97th Congress, 1st Session, 1981, page 7.

[steen]

Gilbert1908 wrote: steen wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: I would request ANY medical reference which is contrary to the simple staement that a human embryo is an individual human life? Rather, what medical reference claims that it IS an individual?

Quote: I have provided excepts from embryology text books and quotes from numerous physicians. Claiming the embryo to be an individual life? Could you point to that? "Zygote: This cell results from the union of an oocyte and a sperm. A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo). The expression fertilized ovum refers to a secondary oocyte that is impregnated by a sperm; when fertilization is complete, the oocyte becomes a zygote." Pernaud & Moore Pg.2 (common textbook in Embryology courses) no word about "individual." nor did you actually reference the book. What edition, what year? What chapter, what author? Do you at all know what a reference is?

Quote: "... [W]e begin our description of the developing human with the formation and differentiation of the male and female sex cells or gametes, which will unite at fertilization to initiate the embryonic development of a new individual." Larsen Pg 1 (Human Embryology Textbook) Same issue on references. And initiating development of an individual is not the same as saying that there is an individual.

Quote: "Fertilization is an important landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed" O'Rahilly, R. and F. Muller. 1996. Human Embryology & Teratology, Wiley-Liss, New York. What page. And again, not a word about individual function.

Quote: "Although it is customary to divide human development into prenatal (before birth) and postnatal (after birth) periods, birth is merely a dramatic event during development resulting in a change in environment. Development does not stop at birth. Important changes, in addition to growth, occur after birth (e.g., development of teeth and female breasts). The brain triples in weight between birth and 16 years; most developmental changes are completed by the age of 25." Moore and Persaud, p. 2; reference? And where does it talk about individual function?

Quote: "It is the penetration of the ovum by a spermatozoa and the resulting mingling of the chromosomal material each brings to the union that culminates the process of fertilization and initiates the life of a new individual. Every one of the higher animals starts life as a single cell the fertilized ovum. The union of two such sex cells to form a zygote constitutes the process of fertilization and initiates the life of a new individual." Bradley M. Patten, M.D. Foundations of Embryology (3rd Edition, 1968), New York City: McGraw-Hill. Almost 40 year old reference. As medical science goes, that's ancient.

Quote: "The term conception refers to the union of the male and female pronuclear elements of procreation from which a new living being develops. It is synonymous with the terms fecundation, impregnation, and fertilization ... The zygote thus formed represents the beginning of a new life". J.P. Greenhill and E.A. Freidman. Biological Principles and Modern Practice of Obstetrics. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Publishers. Pages 17 and 23. What year? And again, we are talking about individual, not new life. Now where does your source talk about the zygote as an individual being?

Quote: "The formation, maturation and meeting of a male and female sex cell are all preliminary to their actual union into a combined cell, or zygote, which definitely marks the beginning of a new individual." Leslie Arey. Developmental Anatomy (7th Edition, 1974). Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Publishers. What page? And also a bit outdated. What is the evidence they provide?

Quote: "Zygote. This cell results from fertilization of an oocyte by a sperm and is the beginning of a human being ... Development begins at fertilization, when a sperm unites with an oocyte to form a zygote. Each of us started life as a cell called a zygote." K.L. Moore. The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology (2nd Ed., 1977). Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Publishers. Pages 1 and 12. Outdated. And not one word about "individual." Why are you wasting our time?

Quote: "A human being develops from a mass of living material no larger than a pinhead, material contributed by both parents and capable of living and growing for a lifetime ... This genetic makeup was established at the beginning of your life, when a haploid egg and a haploid sperm combined to produce a diploid zygote, your first somatic cell." J.H. Otto and A. Towle. Modern Biology. New York City: Holt, Rinehart & Winston. 1969. very outdated and doesn't evidence any individual.

Quote: "Every time a sperm cell and ovum unite, a new being is created which is alive and will continue to live unless its death is brought about by some specific condition." E.L. Potter, M.D., and J.M. Craig, M.D. Pathology of the Fetus and the Infant. 3rd Edition. Chicago: Year Book Medical Publishers, 1975, page vii. Rather old and doesn't mention anything about an individual.

Quote: "From conception the child is a complex, dynamic, rapidly-growing individual. At fertilization, a new and unique individual is created which, although receiving one-half of its chromosomes from each parent, is really unlike either." B. Heffernan, "The Early Biography of Every Man," Abortion and Social Justice, Sheed and Ward. not a scientific source. Pro-life texts are only evidence of pro-life lies.

Quote: "Physicians, biologists, and other scientists agree that conception marks the beginning of the life of a human being a being that is alive and is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological, and scientific writings ...Those witnesses who testified that science cannot say whether unborn children are human beings were speaking in every instance to the value question rather than the scientific question. No witness raised any evidence to refute the biological fact that from the moment of human conception there exists a distinct individual being who is alive and is of the human species." Report of the Senate Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to the Senate Judiciary Committee S-158, 97th Congress, 1st Session, 1981, page 7. Political espousings are not evidence of anything but the political leanings of the person spewing their political lies. Nice touch.

Now that we have looked at all your non-evidence, would you mind providing the actual evidence/

[Gilbert1908]

steen wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: steen wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: I would request ANY medical reference which is contrary to the simple staement that a human embryo is an individual human life? Rather, what medical reference claims that it IS an individual?

Quote: I have provided excepts from embryology text books and quotes from numerous physicians. Claiming the embryo to be an individual life? Could you point to that? "Zygote: This cell results from the union of an oocyte and a sperm. A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo). The expression fertilized ovum refers to a secondary oocyte that is impregnated by a sperm; when fertilization is complete, the oocyte becomes a zygote." Pernaud & Moore Pg.2 (common textbook in Embryology courses) no word about "individual." nor did you actually reference the book. What edition, what year? What chapter, what author? Do you at all know what a reference is?

Quote: "... [W]e begin our description of the developing human with the formation and differentiation of the male and female sex cells or gametes, which will unite at fertilization to initiate the embryonic development of a new individual." Larsen Pg 1 (Human Embryology Textbook) Same issue on references. And initiating development of an individual is not the same as saying that there is an individual.

Quote: "Fertilization is an important landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed" O'Rahilly, R. and F. Muller. 1996. Human Embryology & Teratology, Wiley-Liss, New York. What page. And again, not a word about individual function.

Quote: "Although it is customary to divide human development into prenatal (before birth) and postnatal (after birth) periods, birth is merely a dramatic event during development resulting in a change in environment. Development does not stop at birth. Important changes, in addition to growth, occur after birth (e.g., development of teeth and female breasts). The brain triples in weight between birth and 16 years; most developmental changes are completed by the age of 25." Moore and Persaud, p. 2; reference? And where does it talk about individual function?

Quote: "It is the penetration of the ovum by a spermatozoa and the resulting mingling of the chromosomal material each brings to the union that culminates the process of fertilization and initiates the life of a new individual. Every one of the higher animals starts life as a single cell the fertilized ovum. The union of two such sex cells to form a zygote constitutes the process of fertilization and initiates the life of a new individual." Bradley M. Patten, M.D. Foundations of Embryology (3rd Edition, 1968), New York City: McGraw-Hill. Almost 40 year old reference. As medical science goes, that's ancient.

Quote: "The term conception refers to the union of the male and female pronuclear elements of procreation from which a new living being develops. It is synonymous with the terms fecundation, impregnation, and fertilization ... The zygote thus formed represents the beginning of a new life". J.P. Greenhill and E.A. Freidman. Biological Principles and Modern Practice of Obstetrics. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Publishers. Pages 17 and 23. What year? And again, we are talking about individual, not new life. Now where does your source talk about the zygote as an individual being?

Quote: "The formation, maturation and meeting of a male and female sex cell are all preliminary to their actual union into a combined cell, or zygote, which definitely marks the beginning of a new individual." Leslie Arey. Developmental Anatomy (7th Edition, 1974). Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Publishers. What page? And also a bit outdated. What is the evidence they provide?

Quote: "Zygote. This cell results from fertilization of an oocyte by a sperm and is the beginning of a human being ... Development begins at fertilization, when a sperm unites with an oocyte to form a zygote. Each of us started life as a cell called a zygote." K.L. Moore. The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology (2nd Ed., 1977). Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Publishers. Pages 1 and 12. Outdated. And not one word about "individual." Why are you wasting our time?

Quote: "A human being develops from a mass of living material no larger than a pinhead, material contributed by both parents and capable of living and growing for a lifetime ... This genetic makeup was established at the beginning of your life, when a haploid egg and a haploid sperm combined to produce a diploid zygote, your first somatic cell." J.H. Otto and A. Towle. Modern Biology. New York City: Holt, Rinehart & Winston. 1969. very outdated and doesn't evidence any individual.

Quote: "Every time a sperm cell and ovum unite, a new being is created which is alive and will continue to live unless its death is brought about by some specific condition." E.L. Potter, M.D., and J.M. Craig, M.D. Pathology of the Fetus and the Infant. 3rd Edition. Chicago: Year Book Medical Publishers, 1975, page vii. Rather old and doesn't mention anything about an individual.

Quote: "From conception the child is a complex, dynamic, rapidly-growing individual. At fertilization, a new and unique individual is created which, although receiving one-half of its chromosomes from each parent, is really unlike either." B. Heffernan, "The Early Biography of Every Man," Abortion and Social Justice, Sheed and Ward. not a scientific source. Pro-life texts are only evidence of pro-life lies.

Quote: "Physicians, biologists, and other scientists agree that conception marks the beginning of the life of a human being a being that is alive and is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological, and scientific writings ...Those witnesses who testified that science cannot say whether unborn children are human beings were speaking in every instance to the value question rather than the scientific question. No witness raised any evidence to refute the biological fact that from the moment of human conception there exists a distinct individual being who is alive and is of the human species." Report of the Senate Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to the Senate Judiciary Committee S-158, 97th Congress, 1st Session, 1981, page 7. Political espousings are not evidence of anything but the political leanings of the person spewing their political lies. Nice touch.

Now that we have looked at all your non-evidence, would you mind providing the actual evidence/

I crown you King of Denial.

[AllAmericanMan]

Quote: Why? pro-lifers have posted their fetal porn for decades and it hasn't affected us one bit. Fetal porn? Holy s**t you have severe pyschological problems dude. Seek help now.

[JonnytheHammer]

ok so if a guy kills another guy thats murder but if a doctor kills a baby its not?

[artistvrd]

sorry, I don't believe in murder