Political Crossfire Forums

[TNBiologist]

http://www.worldmag.com/articles/11675

WASHINGTON, D.C.— Crumbling rowhouses, liquor stores, and pockmarked streets highlight the neighborhood where D.C. city official Sandra Seegars lives—but a hand-painted sign near her home boasts, "There have been no murders on this block."

Miss Seegars draws a diagram on the back of an orange flier to illustrate how dangerous her neighborhood is. Crisscrossing lines in a grid represent a five-block area around her home. She points her pen to streets on her map: "Several people have been killed up here, and at least two in the last year here. There was a drive-by right here. There was a shooting right here, but the guy didn't die."

All those murders happened after the city's near-total prohibition on guns took effect in 1976. "How dare they have a gun when it's against the law?" she asks sarcastically. D.C.'s Firearms Control Regulations Act, unique in America, restricts anyone from owning a handgun not registered with city police 30 years ago. Police refuse to issue permits for any weapon obtained after that time. Weapons registered before that date must be stored "unloaded, disassembled, or bound by a trigger lock or similar device," rendering the weapon useless.

Even though no one has ever been murdered while on Miss Seegars' block, she speaks of burglaries in terms of "the last time someone broke into my house." Several years ago someone set her car on fire. A prostitute standing on the corner described seeing a man in an orange, hooded shirt set the blaze.

"I think we should have guns at least in our homes and be allowed to have them loaded," Miss Seegars says—but such comments anger her boss, D.C. Mayor Anthony Williams, a pro-gun-control Democrat like almost every other members of the D.C. city council.

When the U.S. House of Representatives voted in 2005 to allow residents to defend themselves with guns in their homes, Mr. Williams called the amendment "a slap in the face." Nearly every member of the city council protested lifting the gun ban, and the Senate never acted on the bill.

Miss Seegars vocally opposes her colleagues and, as head of the D.C. Taxi Cab Commission, wants taxi drivers to be able to protect themselves from thugs by carrying a holstered pistol. A Metropolitan Police press release on Dec. 23, 2005, detailed six taxicab robberies since November.

Not all cab drivers could arm themselves legally—some are felons and many are not U.S. citizens—but, Miss Seegars says, criminals "wouldn't know which ones did and which ones didn't have a gun." Under her proposal cab drivers would "need to go through all the proper regulations and training [and] be a citizen of sound mind." She estimates that 700 of the 7,000 drivers she represents would be both able and willing to carry a weapon on the job.

Her proposal has stirred up controversy, as did her earlier comment that cab drivers should avoid dangerous, low-income black neighborhoods and "dangerous looking" passengers, such as the "young black guy . . . with his hat on backwards, shirttail hanging down longer than his coat, baggy pants down below his underwear and unlaced tennis shoes."

Appalled city officials called her statements racist, and interim commission chairman George W. Crawford said that drivers following Miss Seegars' recommendations would be subject to a $500 fine and license suspension or revocation.

But Miss Seegars, a street-tough black woman, knows about dangerous neighborhoods. Raised in public housing until she was 18, her brothers became involved in drugs and thug activity. Her oldest brother, James Seegars, took up robbing banks in the mid-1970s, until a friend who betrayed him shot him in the head. Her younger brother, Marvin Seegars, was one of the "Pizza Hut Bandits" who targeted those restaurants and stuffed employees into freezers before making off with cash. He is serving a life-plus-20-year sentence for murdering a man in 1980.

Part of the reason Miss Seegars is so adamant about legalizing guns is because she is familiar with the mindset of bad guys: "I know from my brothers being criminals that they like easy targets. . . . The drivers are just out there trying to make a living, and they're going to get killed for a couple dollars."

The Metropolitan Police's Third District Auto Theft Unit agrees with Miss Seegars. Officer Farid Fawzi stood up from behind his desk in the basement-level office of the police station when asked about guns and said, "Make them legal. In [Prince Georges County, Maryland] you can have a gun and even though things are getting bad now, they have never had the problems we have." Gathering his gear from around the office, he strapped on a Kevlar vest and continued: "I think it would be interesting to see what kind of changes there would be if guns were legal. I know shootings would be up . . ."

Officer Norman Rahman interjected: "Just at first."

"Sure, for a while," Officer Fawzi said, "until we go through the whole campaign of training residents about how to use guns to defend themselves. When you live in the city what are you supposed to do to defend yourself?"

Officer Joe O'Rourke walked through the door and joined the discussion: "I feel no safer working in a city with strict gun laws than in a city without gun laws." He should know. Before joining D.C.'s Third District, the well-traveled officer served 26 years on the New York City police force, then spent several years in the Secret Service and a little while with police departments in Florida.

If stricter gun laws stopped crime, D.C. would be the safest place in the country. But crooks still have guns and the homicide rate has been among the worst in the nation for more than 20 years. Guns are prevalent on D.C. streets in spite of aggressive law enforcement. MPD recovered 2,316 guns in 2005.

Guns alone are not the problem to Officer Fawzi. He owns nearly a dozen. He is, however, aggressive about enforcing the law because in D.C. illegal guns are owned by people wanting to commit illegal activities. Officer Fawzi says a legal gun in well-trained hands can save lives: "I think everyone should have a gun in their house for self-defense."

And as for the risk of his gun falling into the hands of the crook? "Train yourself so it won't be used against you. You go to school to learn how to drive. Learn how to use a gun."

The controversy about gun laws is one that top city officials do not want. Late last year Miss Seegars learned that she will not be reappointed for another term. That very day a cabdriver was killed during a robbery. She says, "I really wasn't too concerned about guns until I was appointed to the taxicab commission. City officials get mad at me for not touting the government line. But just that someone would think about [drivers] enough to say that they should be allowed to arm themselves to defend themselves. That means a lot to them."

Copyright © 2006 WORLD Magazine
April 01, 2006, Vol. 21, No. 13


Finially someone in the city with the toughest gun control laws in the country and some of the highest crime are seeing an alternative, including some of the cops. Now if only they could start the process to repeal the DC gun ban.

[Wolverine]

Hopefully the laws in DC change, for the better.

More guns = less crime

[mattman42]

It's only a matter of time before the residents of D.C. gather up enough sense to overturn this law.

[Lucky Luke]

Wolverine wrote: Hopefully the laws in DC change, for the better.

More guns = less crime

Not in DC Whateveryournameis, in DC less guns means less crime.

If the level of crime in DC keeps going down at the rate it did last year and if the level of crime in your own state Colorado keeps going up at the rate it did last year, I suggest you to leave your empty state for busy DC for your own safety!

Quote: Percent change of crime rates (per 100,000) from 2003 to 2004

........Murder..Rape..Robbery..Assault..Burglary..Larceny-theft..Motor theft

D.C.
....... -19.9.... -18.4... -18.2...... -13.0... -14.9.......... - 19.1.......... -14.5

Colorado
....... + 8.4.... + 1.1... - 0.9...... +12.3.. + 0.7.......... - 2.1.......... +42.2

U.S.
....... -3.3...... - 0.2.... - 4.1....... -1.5.... - 1.5............ - 2.1............. -2.9

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/documents/04tbl04a.xls

The laws in DC are a great success, what about the laws in Colorado shall we apply the Colorado law to DC to see what swing would we get on crime rates, how many more people would die, how many more people would be raped, who many more robberies, assaults, motors stolen...

DC, what is DC Whatever your name is? Are these people Americans like you with the same rights, is there a star on the flag for them? Why do you care?

:-D
:-D

[Lucky Luke]

mattman42 wrote: It's only a matter of time before the residents of D.C. gather up enough sense to overturn this law.

At this rate in less than 5 years time with their existing laws the good people of DC will be challenging New York success in reducing their level of crimes.

:-D
:-D

[TNBiologist]

Lucky, please post the actual crime levels for the areas you are talking about, not the change in crime rates and try to include more than one year. Also how in the hell do you think that New York City is a low crime area? Look at teh stats once they are broken down, New York has seen a drop in property crimes but the rate of murders, rapes, robberies and assualts is still almost 30% higher than teh national average so I guess New york is a safe place for your car but not a person.

http://newyork.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm

Crime Type 2004 Total /Per 100,000 People /National per 100,000 People
Overall New York Crime Index 226876 /2800.5 /3982.6

New York Violent Crimes 55688/ 687.4 /465.5
New York Murders 570 /7 /5.5
New York Rapes 1428/ 17.6 /32.2
New York Robberies 24373 /300.9 /136.7
New York Aggravated Assaults 29317 /361.9 /291.1

New York Property Crimes 171188 /2113.1/ 3517.1
New York Burglaries 26100 /322.2/ 729.9
New York Larceny/Thefts 124016 /1530.8/ 2365.9
New York Motor Vehicle Thefts 21072 /260.1/ 421.3

New York Arsons 1 N/A N/A N/A

For more city crime stats go to AreaConnect and select a city.

1 - National arson data is not available. Therefore, arson data is not used in a comparitive manner, and arson data is excluded from property crimes total.

Notes:

Based on the final 2004 FBI Crime Reports.
Results are tabulated using the New York crime collection area population of 8,101,321.
New York crime collection population may not match US Census data. Population is based on the agencies participating in the reporting.
2005 New York crime stats will be available October 2006.

[Lucky Luke]

TNBiologist wrote: Lucky, please post the actual crime levels for the areas you are talking about, not the change in crime rates and try to include more than one year. Also how in the hell do you think that New York City is a low crime area? Look at teh stats once they are broken down, New York has seen a drop in property crimes but the rate of murders, rapes, robberies and assualts is still almost 30% higher than teh national average so I guess New york is a safe place for your car but not a person.

http://newyork.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm

Crime Type 2004 Total /Per 100,000 People /National per 100,000 People
Overall New York Crime Index 226876 /2800.5 /3982.6

New York Violent Crimes 55688/ 687.4 /465.5
New York Murders 570 /7 /5.5
New York Rapes 1428/ 17.6 /32.2
New York Robberies 24373 /300.9 /136.7
New York Aggravated Assaults 29317 /361.9 /291.1

New York Property Crimes 171188 /2113.1/ 3517.1
New York Burglaries 26100 /322.2/ 729.9
New York Larceny/Thefts 124016 /1530.8/ 2365.9
New York Motor Vehicle Thefts 21072 /260.1/ 421.3

New York Arsons 1 N/A N/A N/A

For more city crime stats go to AreaConnect and select a city.

1 - National arson data is not available. Therefore, arson data is not used in a comparitive manner, and arson data is excluded from property crimes total.

Notes:

Based on the final 2004 FBI Crime Reports.
Results are tabulated using the New York crime collection area population of 8,101,321.
New York crime collection population may not match US Census data. Population is based on the agencies participating in the reporting.
2005 New York crime stats will be available October 2006.

This is very misleading TNBiologist, nice try but of course I was talking about states, the state of Colorado versus the District of Columbia that wants to be a state.

Please have the honesty to check your numbers with the state of New York, apologise for your mistake then I'll show you why NYC is one of the safest city in America.

Quote:

The violent crime rate and the property crime rate of New York are both lower than the national ones, not only this but the violent crime rate in the state of New York is going down faster than the American one.
Only one out of all these crime rates is lower nationally than for New York, robbery and still it is going down and down faster than the American one is.

All crime numbers shown here and all crime rates for New York are down from 2003 to 2004 just like DC when Colorado has only 4 of these numbers and rates down out of 18 for the same period.

Tell me again why DC should listen to Whateverisname living in Colorado on how to reduce crime rates?

:-D
:-D

[TNBiologist]

Lucky Luke wrote: This is very misleading TNBiologist, nice try but of course I was talking about states, the state of Colorado versus the District of Columbia that wants to be a state.

Please have the honesty to check your numbers with the state of New York, apologise for your mistake then I'll show you why NYC is one of the safest city in America.

Lucky, next time you want to insult my honesty you had better have something to back it up. I looked up your crime stats, the same ones that you have used in many debates on this forum and guess what the FBI even says that the "Crime Index (and subsequently the Modified Crime Index) has not been a true indicator of the degree of criminality." So you have been using information that is false. I will give you the benifit of the doubt that you did not know about this not that you are a lier and dishonest bastard. So lets try this agian, my stats have not been declared false or not a true indicator so once again the great New York City is safe for cars but not people. Sorry Lucky, try again.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/summary/index.html

Suspension of the Crime Index and Modified Crime Index
In June 2004, the CJIS APB approved discontinuing the use of the Crime Index in the UCR Program and its publications and directed the FBI publish a violent crime total and a property crime total until a more viable index is developed. The Crime Index was first published in Crime in the United States in 1960. Congress designated arson as a Part I offense in October 1978, and the UCR Program began collecting arson data in 1979. The FBI adopted the term Modified Crime Index to reflect the addition of arson as a Part I offense. The Modified Crime Index was the number of Crime Index offenses plus arson. However, in recent years, the Crime Index (and subsequently the Modified Crime Index) has not been a true indicator of the degree of criminality. The Crime Index was simply the title used for an aggregation of the seven main offense classifications (Part I offenses) for which data has been collected since the Program’s implementation. The Crime Index and Modified Crime Index were driven upward by the offense with the highest number, in this case, larceny-theft, creating a bias against a jurisdiction with a high number of larceny-thefts but a low number of other serious crimes such as murder and forcible rape. Currently, larceny-theft makes up 59.4 percent of reported crime, and thus the sheer volume of those offenses overshadow more serious but less frequently committed offenses. The CJIS Division studied the appropriateness and usefulness of the Crime Index and Modified Crime Index for several years and brought the matter before many advisory groups including the UCR Subcommittee of the CJIS APB, the ASUCRP, and a meeting of leading criminologists and sociologists hosted by the BJS. The consensus was that the Crime Index and Modified Crime Index no longer served their original purpose, that the UCR Program should suspend their use, and that a more robust index should be developed.

[Lucky Luke]

TNBiologist wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: This is very misleading TNBiologist, nice try but of course I was talking about states, the state of Colorado versus the District of Columbia that wants to be a state.

Please have the honesty to check your numbers with the state of New York, apologise for your mistake then I'll show you why NYC is one of the safest city in America.

Lucky, next time you want to insult my honesty you had better have something to back it up. I looked up your crime stats, the same ones that you have used in many debates on this forum and guess what the FBI even says that the "Crime Index (and subsequently the Modified Crime Index) has not been a true indicator of the degree of criminality." So you have been using information that is false. I will give you the benifit of the doubt that you did not know about this not that you are a lier and dishonest bastard. So lets try this agian, my stats have not been declared false or not a true indicator so once again the great New York City is safe for cars but not people. Sorry Lucky, try again.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/summary/index.html

Suspension of the Crime Index and Modified Crime Index
In June 2004, the CJIS APB approved discontinuing the use of the Crime Index in the UCR Program and its publications and directed the FBI publish a violent crime total and a property crime total until a more viable index is developed. The Crime Index was first published in Crime in the United States in 1960. Congress designated arson as a Part I offense in October 1978, and the UCR Program began collecting arson data in 1979. The FBI adopted the term Modified Crime Index to reflect the addition of arson as a Part I offense. The Modified Crime Index was the number of Crime Index offenses plus arson. However, in recent years, the Crime Index (and subsequently the Modified Crime Index) has not been a true indicator of the degree of criminality. The Crime Index was simply the title used for an aggregation of the seven main offense classifications (Part I offenses) for which data has been collected since the Program’s implementation. The Crime Index and Modified Crime Index were driven upward by the offense with the highest number, in this case, larceny-theft, creating a bias against a jurisdiction with a high number of larceny-thefts but a low number of other serious crimes such as murder and forcible rape. Currently, larceny-theft makes up 59.4 percent of reported crime, and thus the sheer volume of those offenses overshadow more serious but less frequently committed offenses. The CJIS Division studied the appropriateness and usefulness of the Crime Index and Modified Crime Index for several years and brought the matter before many advisory groups including the UCR Subcommittee of the CJIS APB, the ASUCRP, and a meeting of leading criminologists and sociologists hosted by the BJS. The consensus was that the Crime Index and Modified Crime Index no longer served their original purpose, that the UCR Program should suspend their use, and that a more robust index should be developed.

My point was about comparing states, you came up with a city TNBiologist, why don't you show us your data for the states of New York and compare them with Colorado, DC and the US?

Take the time to read what you posted, the criticism was that the two main groups of crimes, the property crimes and the violent crimes are including a number of very different crimes of very different rates per population making a total crime rate per group very misleading.

This is why I posted the details of all 7 crime rates per 100,000, the actual number of rates and the changes of both from 2003 to 2004.
Nothing in your post is claiming that these numbers are misleading, only the violent crime rate and the property crime rate would be if I had posted them on their own but I did not.

Once you have answered these two particular points I'll show you why NYC is one of the safest American city TNBiologist.

:-D
:-D

[TNBiologist]

Here are the stats comparing per capita crime rates between New York, Washington Dc and the US average. Remember that New york has some very strict gun laws, Washington DC has outlawed all guns within the city that were not there before 1970 and those must be disassembled and the rest of the US has some sense for the most part.

http://newyork.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=New+York&s1=NY&c2=Washington&s2=DC

Latest 2004 Crimes per 100,000 People:

New York, NY /Washington, DC /National

Murder: 7 /35.8 /5.5
Forcible Rape: 17.63 /39.38/ 32.2
Robbery: 300.9/ 552.3/ 136.7
Aggravated Assault: 361.9/ 697.9/ 291.1
Burglary: 322.2/ 712.3/ 729.9
Larceny Theft: 1530.8/ 2485.2/ 2365.9
Vehicle Theft: 260.1/ 1469.9/ 421.3


You still have not answered about why you have been passing off stats that the FBI itself said were no good? Care to explain.

[Lucky Luke]

TNBiologist wrote: Here are the stats comparing per capita crime rates between New York, Washington Dc and the US average. Remember that New york has some very strict gun laws, Washington DC has outlawed all guns within the city that were not there before 1970 and those must be disassembled and the rest of the US has some sense for the most part.

http://newyork.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=New+York&s1=NY&c2=Washington&s2=DC

Latest 2004 Crimes per 100,000 People:

New York, NY /Washington, DC /National

Murder: 7 /35.8 /5.5
Forcible Rape: 17.63 /39.38/ 32.2
Robbery: 300.9/ 552.3/ 136.7
Aggravated Assault: 361.9/ 697.9/ 291.1
Burglary: 322.2/ 712.3/ 729.9
Larceny Theft: 1530.8/ 2485.2/ 2365.9
Vehicle Theft: 260.1/ 1469.9/ 421.3

...........

This doesn't make any sense at all you are comparing cities crime rate with America's crime rate TNBiologist, you are refusing to compare New York city with other cities and further more you are not showing how NYC and Washington DC strict gun control laws have contributed to the sharp decrease of the murder rate of these two cities over the years.

How safe do you think New York City is TNBiologist compared to other American cities?

:-D
:-D

[Lucky Luke]

TNBiologist wrote:
...........
You still have not answered about why you have been passing off stats that the FBI itself said were no good? Care to explain.

I did answer TNBiologist and I did ask you to read and to comment on my answer not to ignore it:

Lucky Luke wrote: TNBiologist wrote: Suspension of the Crime Index and Modified Crime Index
In June 2004, the CJIS APB approved discontinuing the use of the Crime Index in the UCR Program and its publications and directed the FBI publish a violent crime total and a property crime total until a more viable index is developed. The Crime Index was first published in Crime in the United States in 1960. Congress designated arson as a Part I offense in October 1978, and the UCR Program began collecting arson data in 1979. The FBI adopted the term Modified Crime Index to reflect the addition of arson as a Part I offense. The Modified Crime Index was the number of Crime Index offenses plus arson. However, in recent years, the Crime Index (and subsequently the Modified Crime Index) has not been a true indicator of the degree of criminality. The Crime Index was simply the title used for an aggregation of the seven main offense classifications (Part I offenses) for which data has been collected since the Program’s implementation. The Crime Index and Modified Crime Index were driven upward by the offense with the highest number, in this case, larceny-theft, creating a bias against a jurisdiction with a high number of larceny-thefts but a low number of other serious crimes such as murder and forcible rape. Currently, larceny-theft makes up 59.4 percent of reported crime, and thus the sheer volume of those offenses overshadow more serious but less frequently committed offenses. The CJIS Division studied the appropriateness and usefulness of the Crime Index and Modified Crime Index for several years and brought the matter before many advisory groups including the UCR Subcommittee of the CJIS APB, the ASUCRP, and a meeting of leading criminologists and sociologists hosted by the BJS. The consensus was that the Crime Index and Modified Crime Index no longer served their original purpose, that the UCR Program should suspend their use, and that a more robust index should be developed.

Take the time to read what you posted, the criticism was that the two main groups of crimes, the property crimes and the violent crimes are including a number of very different crimes of very different rates per population making a total crime rate per group very misleading.

This is why I posted the details of all 7 crime rates per 100,000, the actual number of rates and the changes of both from 2003 to 2004.
Nothing in your post is claiming that these numbers are misleading, only the violent crime rate and the property crime rate would be if I had posted them on their own but I did not.

Do you get it yet or do you want me to explain further where you got it wrong TNBiologist?

BTW what make you think your stats are right while the ones from the FBI I posted are false?

:-D
:-D

[TNBiologist]

Lucky Luke wrote: TNBiologist wrote: Here are the stats comparing per capita crime rates between New York, Washington Dc and the US average. Remember that New york has some very strict gun laws, Washington DC has outlawed all guns within the city that were not there before 1970 and those must be disassembled and the rest of the US has some sense for the most part.

http://newyork.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=New+York&s1=NY&c2=Washington&s2=DC

Latest 2004 Crimes per 100,000 People:

New York, NY /Washington, DC /National

Murder: 7 /35.8 /5.5
Forcible Rape: 17.63 /39.38/ 32.2
Robbery: 300.9/ 552.3/ 136.7
Aggravated Assault: 361.9/ 697.9/ 291.1
Burglary: 322.2/ 712.3/ 729.9
Larceny Theft: 1530.8/ 2485.2/ 2365.9
Vehicle Theft: 260.1/ 1469.9/ 421.3

...........

This doesn't make any sense at all you are comparing cities crime rate with America's crime rate TNBiologist, you are refusing to compare New York city with other cities and further more you are not showing how NYC and Washington DC strict gun control laws have contributed to the sharp decrease of the murder rate of these two cities over the years.

How safe do you think New York City is TNBiologist compared to other American cities?

:-D
:-D

I posted these two cities becasue the original post was about Washington DC and for some reason you love New York. They both have very strict gun control and I compared them to the rest of america as a whole to show that even with heavy gun control laws they are more dangerous than most of America. Yes they have both had a sharp decreass in crime over the past few years, which matches the trend of this country as a whole.
I cannot export the chart to here but click the link and see that crime overall has been dropping drastically in the US so it only makes sense that even the most violent cities will have a decrease in crime.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/cv2.htm

[TNBiologist]

Lucky Luke wrote: BTW what make you think your stats are right while the ones from the FBI I posted are false?

The fact that the FBI themselves have said that your stats are inacurate while I have not found anyone claiming that the stats I used were inacurate.

[Lucky Luke]

TNBiologist wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: BTW what make you think your stats are right while the ones from the FBI I posted are false?

The fact that the FBI themselves have said that your stats are inacurate while I have not found anyone claiming that the stats I used were inacurate.

You still haven't read your own quote from the FBI, have you?
May be you should ask what you do not understand in your own quote TNBiologist.

However anyone use to criminal stats in America would know that there is only one source of data for crimes and this source is the one your own stats used:

Quote: ....Based on the final 2004 FBI Crime Statistics......
http://newyork.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=New+York&s1=NY&c2=Washington&s2=DC

Oops, how wrong can you get TNBiologist?

I avoid using non official stats even when they are based on the FBI 2004 data, it is as easy to use the original source. I can't believe that you did not realise that AreaConnect were using the FBI data nor that you cannot understand the FBI warning about grouping crime rates together.
:-D
:-D

[Lucky Luke]

TNBiologist wrote:

I posted these two cities becasue the original post was about Washington DC and for some reason you love New York. They both have very strict gun control and I compared them to the rest of america as a whole to show that even with heavy gun control laws they are more dangerous than most of America. Yes they have both had a sharp decreass in crime over the past few years, which matches the trend of this country as a whole.
I cannot export the chart to here but click the link and see that crime overall has been dropping drastically in the US so it only makes sense that even the most violent cities will have a decrease in crime.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/cv2.htm

No, TNBiologist you cannot compare a vast country crime rates with very busy cities crime rates, didn't you know?

At least compare cities with cities or the average in the US with states of similar population density, didn't you know that the first factor for crime is population per sq. mile or urbanisation?

Look I'll do it from your own link (based on the FBI 2004 data) and show you how it is done:



Is this clear enough for you TNBiologist?

Now play the game and look for safer cities than NYC in America, it is hard but there are at least 6 I am told!

The facts are that Washington DC and New York City particularly have an unprecedented fall in crime rates unmatched anywhere else in the US and of course the facts are too that other armed cities and states of the US are experiencing an incredible increase in crime rate.
:-D
:-D

[TNBiologist]

Lucky Luke wrote: TNBiologist wrote:

I posted these two cities becasue the original post was about Washington DC and for some reason you love New York. They both have very strict gun control and I compared them to the rest of america as a whole to show that even with heavy gun control laws they are more dangerous than most of America. Yes they have both had a sharp decreass in crime over the past few years, which matches the trend of this country as a whole.
I cannot export the chart to here but click the link and see that crime overall has been dropping drastically in the US so it only makes sense that even the most violent cities will have a decrease in crime.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/cv2.htm

No, TNBiologist you cannot compare a vast country crime rates with very busy cities crime rates, didn't you know?

At least compare cities with cities or the average in the US with states of similar population density, didn't you know that the first factor for crime is population per sq. mile or urbanisation?

Look I'll do it from your own link (based on the FBI 2004 data) and show you how it is done:


Is this clear enough for you TNBiologist?

Now play the game and look for safer cities than NYC in America, it is hard but there are at least 6 I am told!

The facts are that Washington DC and New York City particularly have an unprecedented fall in crime rates unmatched anywhere else in the US and of course the facts are too that other armed cities and states of the US are experiencing an incredible increase in crime rate.
:-D
:-D

The crime rates I posted were per capita, which means that the crime rates was broken down to number of crime per 100,000 people. That doesn't change if it is in the city or the country. By your logic city people are criminals and people that live in the county are not. So please tell me how is it wrong to compair the crime rate per capita of a city to that of the rest of the country which includes all the cities.

[Lucky Luke]

TNBiologist wrote:
The crime rates I posted were per capita, which means that the crime rates was broken down to number of crime per 100,000 people. That doesn't change if it is in the city or the country. By your logic city people are criminals and people that live in the county are not. So please tell me how is it wrong to compair the crime rate per capita of a city to that of the rest of the country which includes all the cities.

Crime stats are not your strength, are they TNBiologist?

Of course they are all per 100,000 they are coming straight from the FBI data I posted to you.

Now to understand crime rate you have to understand the first factor of crime:

Quote: Historically, the causes and origins of crime have been the subjects of investigation by many disciplines. Some factors that are known to affect the volume and type of crime occurring from place to place are:

Population density and degree of urbanization.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/summary/crime_factors/index.html

Did you get that now? Here is why you have to be very careful when comparing a city with a country crime rates:

Quote: USA

Persons per square mile, 2000 79.6
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Quote: New York (city)

Persons per square mile, 2000 26,402.9
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/36/3651000.html

There are 330 times more people per square mile in New York City than in America TNBiologist, and population density and the degree of urbanization are the first factors of crime, are you starting to get it TNBiologist?

Here is where you can start to compare, the state of New York has "only" five times more people per square mile than the whole of the US and yet you are safer in the state of New York from people than in the US, incredible isn't it?

Quote: New York

Persons per square mile, 2000 401.9
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/36000.html

What was wrong was first to claim that my stats were false when you were using the same data and second to claim that New York City wasn't safe. You were wrong on both, still what about comparing NYC with other cities, why not Miami Florida?



Or Memphis?



Your turn.

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[OneZero]

I would hate to live in DC.

[Lucky Luke]

OneZero wrote: I would hate to live in DC.

I heard people in DC have got a lot to complain about, what kind of democratic country doesn't recognise the right ot the people of DC to become a state?
I looks like DC has been left behind with no place in the congress or on the flag.
Still DC are sorting themselves out, they just need Virginia to understand DC's problem and they'll be ok in 5 years or so.

New York is the place to live if you like safety in the city in America.
:-D
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