Political Crossfire Forums

[Gaea]

I first heard of this on the radio and thought it unfair to make everyone who owns less than 30,000 chickens to put an ID chip in every single chicken, goose, cow, goat and horse on their farm.

The cost of putting a chip in every chicken and farm animal, plus the time to fill out the documents plus the cost of filing each separate ID annually seems to be an undue burden on the small farmer. Corporations like Monsanto, Cargill and Tyson, who are pushing for this bill, would be exempt from the cost and burden of putting ID chips in chickens because they own more than 30,000 chickens. Is this fair to smaller farmers and agricultural businesses?

http://www.eggcartons.com/NoNaisArticle.htm

http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/index.shtml

http://www.farm-garden.com/opinion/usda_nais

I think if corporations like Monsanto, Cargill and Tyson, who are pushing for this bill, want everyone else to put chips in their livestock, then maybe they should subsidize the program, so it doesn't appear that the government is trying to wipe out their competitors for them. Which is basically what they are doing.

[Kt]

Moot wrote: I first heard of this on the radio and thought it unfair to make everyone who owns less than 30,000 chickens to put an ID chip in every single chicken, goose, cow, goat and horse on their farm.

The cost of putting a chip in every chicken and farm animal, plus the time to fill out the documents plus the cost of filing each separate ID annually seems to be an undue burden on the small farmer. Corporations like Monsanto, Cargill and Tyson, who are pushing for this bill, would be exempt from the cost and burden of putting ID chips in chickens because they own more than 30,000 chickens. Is this fair to smaller farmers and agricultural businesses?

http://www.eggcartons.com/NoNaisArticle.htm

http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/index.shtml

http://www.farm-garden.com/opinion/usda_nais

I think if corporations like Monsanto, Cargill and Tyson, who are pushing for this bill, want everyone else to put chips in their livestock, then maybe they should subsidize the program, so it doesn't appear that the government is trying to wipe out their competitors for them. Which is basically what they are doing.

Call me an idiot if you must, but WHY do we need ID chips in chickens???

I am in favor of a 25% meat tax on chicken farming... and perhaps 50% for non-freerange chicken farming...
Let's see how long those amateur farmers last then! :lol:

[geddy]

Helena` wrote: Moot wrote: I first heard of this on the radio and thought it unfair to make everyone who owns less than 30,000 chickens to put an ID chip in every single chicken, goose, cow, goat and horse on their farm.

The cost of putting a chip in every chicken and farm animal, plus the time to fill out the documents plus the cost of filing each separate ID annually seems to be an undue burden on the small farmer. Corporations like Monsanto, Cargill and Tyson, who are pushing for this bill, would be exempt from the cost and burden of putting ID chips in chickens because they own more than 30,000 chickens. Is this fair to smaller farmers and agricultural businesses?

http://www.eggcartons.com/NoNaisArticle.htm

http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/index.shtml

http://www.farm-garden.com/opinion/usda_nais

I think if corporations like Monsanto, Cargill and Tyson, who are pushing for this bill, want everyone else to put chips in their livestock, then maybe they should subsidize the program, so it doesn't appear that the government is trying to wipe out their competitors for them. Which is basically what they are doing.

Call me an idiot if you must, but WHY do we need ID chips in chickens???

I am in favor of a 25% meat tax on chicken farming... and perhaps 50% for non-freerange chicken farming...
Let's see how long those amateur farmers last then! :lol:

You dont like amature farmers?

And yeah, the fact that they those two corporations want to pass that law must be to elimate competition. There is no need one bit to have an id placed in every chicken. They may argue that it is for sanitary reasons, and which probobly might get this law passed, the fact that Bird Flu is still somewhat rampid. But overall, it is just a scam, i think.

[Gaea]

Helena` wrote: Moot wrote: I first heard of this on the radio and thought it unfair to make everyone who owns less than 30,000 chickens to put an ID chip in every single chicken, goose, cow, goat and horse on their farm.

The cost of putting a chip in every chicken and farm animal, plus the time to fill out the documents plus the cost of filing each separate ID annually seems to be an undue burden on the small farmer. Corporations like Monsanto, Cargill and Tyson, who are pushing for this bill, would be exempt from the cost and burden of putting ID chips in chickens because they own more than 30,000 chickens. Is this fair to smaller farmers and agricultural businesses?

http://www.eggcartons.com/NoNaisArticle.htm

http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/index.shtml

http://www.farm-garden.com/opinion/usda_nais

I think if corporations like Monsanto, Cargill and Tyson, who are pushing for this bill, want everyone else to put chips in their livestock, then maybe they should subsidize the program, so it doesn't appear that the government is trying to wipe out their competitors for them. Which is basically what they are doing.

Call me an idiot if you must, but WHY do we need ID chips in chickens???

I am in favor of a 25% meat tax on chicken farming... and perhaps 50% for non-freerange chicken farming...
Let's see how long those amateur farmers last then! :lol:

Its amazing what science can do now days. I think the chips along with containing data, would also act as a thermometer and detect the birds internal body temprature. That way if the birds tempature went up it would signal the bird was ill. The Avian Bird Flu doesn't have noticable symptoms in birds until well after they are infected so catching it early is a good thing. That way they could act accordingly to quarentine the area and all the birds the sick birds came in contact with. I don't think the ID chip in animals is such a bad thing. But I deplore its use for humans,..... although, ....a GS tracking chip sure would help keep track of Alzheimers patients. And pedaphiles. I had one put in my cat.

Right now, the chip program is voluntary and those that can afford it and want to, are participating. But making the program mandatory will hurt the smaller or poorer farmers that couldn't afford to participate in the program to begin with. IMO, that isn't right. That's why I propose the big corporations that want exemption from their own bill, under the premise that they have over 30,000 chickens, that they subsidize or pay for the entire program. They certainly can afford it. But that way they are not getting off scott free, from manipulating the government and the law to their favor.

[superchick]

Moot wrote: I first heard of this on the radio and thought it unfair to make everyone who owns less than 30,000 chickens to put an ID chip in every single chicken, goose, cow, goat and horse on their farm.

The cost of putting a chip in every chicken and farm animal, plus the time to fill out the documents plus the cost of filing each separate ID annually seems to be an undue burden on the small farmer. Corporations like Monsanto, Cargill and Tyson, who are pushing for this bill, would be exempt from the cost and burden of putting ID chips in chickens because they own more than 30,000 chickens. Is this fair to smaller farmers and agricultural businesses?

http://www.eggcartons.com/NoNaisArticle.htm

http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/index.shtml

http://www.farm-garden.com/opinion/usda_nais

I think if corporations like Monsanto, Cargill and Tyson, who are pushing for this bill, want everyone else to put chips in their livestock, then maybe they should subsidize the program, so it doesn't appear that the government is trying to wipe out their competitors for them. Which is basically what they are doing. F'in rediculous! It makes my stomach turn. And this prevents the spread of the avian flu how?

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, so if anything, if you have more than 30k chickens, there should be some serious restrictions about how many chickens can live, sleep, eat, mate and deficate within a square foot, inch whatever. That might help a little bit more than ID tags.


[img] http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/courses/geog100/Icons&Photos/ChickenFarm.jpg[/img]




[img] http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/courses/geog100/Icons&Photos/ChickenFarm.
jpg[/ img]

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!! Sanitary and delicious!

[Gaea]

superchick wrote: Moot wrote: I first heard of this on the radio and thought it unfair to make everyone who owns less than 30,000 chickens to put an ID chip in every single chicken, goose, cow, goat and horse on their farm.

The cost of putting a chip in every chicken and farm animal, plus the time to fill out the documents plus the cost of filing each separate ID annually seems to be an undue burden on the small farmer. Corporations like Monsanto, Cargill and Tyson, who are pushing for this bill, would be exempt from the cost and burden of putting ID chips in chickens because they own more than 30,000 chickens. Is this fair to smaller farmers and agricultural businesses?

http://www.eggcartons.com/NoNaisArticle.htm

http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/index.shtml

http://www.farm-garden.com/opinion/usda_nais

I think if corporations like Monsanto, Cargill and Tyson, who are pushing for this bill, want everyone else to put chips in their livestock, then maybe they should subsidize the program, so it doesn't appear that the government is trying to wipe out their competitors for them. Which is basically what they are doing. F'in rediculous! It makes my stomach turn. And this prevents the spread of the avian flu how?

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, so if anything, if you have more than 30k chickens, there should be some serious restrictions about how many chickens can live, sleep, eat, mate and deficate within a square foot, inch whatever. That might help a little bit more than ID tags.



[img]http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/courses/geog100/Icons&Photos/ChickenFarm.jpg [/img]







[img]http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/courses/geog100/Icons&Photos/ChickenFarm.
jpg [/img]

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!! Sanitary and delicious!

Ugh! The third picture down looks the most sanitary but still, look at how tightly packed the chickens are in the cage. That is sad. But what are we to do with 300 million mouths to feed?

You asked what good the chip would do, it is supposed to detect a sick bird in order to catch it in time before its illness spreads to other birds. But looking at the photos of the conditions the chickens are kept in, if one bird gets sick chances are the entire coop would already be infected. So I don't know if the chip would prevent the spread among chickens, but it might help prevent them from slaughtering the chickens and selling them at market....maybe. Because if a cat can get the virus from eating an infected bird, then it is likely humans could it from eating an infected chicken as well.

[wookeyeh]

Pros:

- Detects and allows monitering of sick animals

Cons:

- Raises costs to farmers of producing product, which gets passed on to consumer, which isn't great for the economy
- If it only applies to owners of 30,000 or less animals, then perhaps only half, or less, of all chickens will actually be monitered, and it will only be an issue for small farmers and pet owners...not sure how that could help anybody other than Monsanto or KFC

[superchick]

Organic chickens. It's not just for hippies anymore. Where do you think avian flu outbreaks will happen.
Keep in mind that these free range organic chickens don't have antibiotics, so if they are sick, or carriers you will know it. Those 30k plus chicken farms have plenty of antibiotics so if they are carrying anything, you will never know.

[Gaea]

superchick wrote: Organic chickens. It's not just for hippies anymore. Where do you think avian flu outbreaks will happen.
Keep in mind that these free range organic chickens don't have antibiotics, so if they are sick, or carriers you will know it. Those 30k plus chicken farms have plenty of antibiotics so if they are carrying anything, you will never know.

I've already been through the New Castle Bird Virus outbreak which was only about 2 or 3 years ago. It was very scary for bird owners and pet stores that sold birds. If an infected bird was found within a certain quadrant of the city (Los Angeles), the surrounding area was immediately quarentined. People with pet birds (parakeets, exotics and chickens) and who lived within the quarentine area were subject to the government going door to door, going into homes and pet shops and killing pet bird(s) on the spot and in front of their owners. No warrants, no testing the bird, no explantions. Pamplets were soon sent out telling people not to allow the government agents in without a warrent, keep a video camera handy and document the entire ordeal and to call the police immediately and don't let the agents in until the police get there, so they can be witness or arbitrators if neccessary.

I purchased some bio-haz doormats for people to disinfect their shoes before they came in or out of my house and took many other precautions. The reason, because if my area was unlucky enough to fall under quarentine, then I could show the gov that I was using the correct precautions and they might let me keep my birds. Luckily they were able to get control of the virus and I didn't have to experience the quarentine.

The New Castle virus was spread in So. Calif. mostly from fighting cocks and chickens kept in people's backyards. Mexicans are known to engage in **** fighting and are most likely the ones who were spreading the NC virus by smuggling their infected birds into the US. Also, many Mexicans believe in Santa Ria(?) which makes use of sacrificial chickens for rituals. The point is, many people throughout LA keep chickens in their backyard (and God only knows what else) or have pet birds or breeding farms, etc. Naturally, the poultry industry was and still are extremely threatened and worried by the NC virus and who can blame them? There was an outbreak in the 1970s that nearly destroyed the poultry industry in So. Calif. The NC virus has already spread globally and will probably be with us off and on for some time to come.


So where can I buy these hippie chickens? :wink:

I've read that 'Free Range Chickens' aren't neccessarily the happy, free range roaming chickens the poultry producers would have us believe.

"....Birds raised in the United States for meat - mainly chickens and turkeys - may be sold as "range" if they have U.S. Department of Agriculture certified access to the outdoors.. No other criteria, such as environmental quality, size of area, number of birds, or space per bird, are included in this term. A USDA staffer told UPC, "Places I've visited may have just a gravel yard with no alfalfa or other vegetation. The birds can exercise, but cannot range--that is, sustain themselves." "....

.....Free range does not solve the problem of oversized flocks, or the unnatural isolation of the birds from other sexes and age-groups of their species and from other species. To date, there is no legal or commercial definition of husbandry terms regulating the sale of eggs in the U.S. There are no standards governing the term or the claim "range" or similar advertisements on egg cartons, such as "free running," "free roaming," or "free walking." ...read
http://www.upc-online.org/freerange.html


So if there is a little outdoor pen for the chickens to step outside to, then the chickens in this photo below could legally be considered free range chickens. I think this photo looks more humane than the photo of chickens in cages stacked on top of each other. But that photo might be of chickens in transport to the slaughter house, who really knows? But I think this photo below is probably typical of the way most poultry producers keep their chickens. It looks crowded, but the birds can still move around and maybe even step out on the range for a minute or two.

[Quicksurf]

Well, their constitutional rights have been violated. :1evil: It's an outrage!

[superchick]

The hippie chickens I am speaking of are organic and free range. I'm not saying that the feelings of chickens are not important, but I don't consider it as important as my health, and if any farmer is practicing organic methods, their animals are not getting hormones, antibiotics, and fed food that has not been processed or treated with fertilizer or hormones also. So they may be in a factory farm, but it's not very smart for the farmer to do that, considering how much more risky it is for the farmer for their investment, considering they are not administering hormones, raising their chickens longer, and not using any anitibiotics. Their feed is way more expensive also.