Political Crossfire Forums

Katsumoto · Joined: 09 Aug 2005 Posts: 2004 Location: Orygun

Hi. This is my first post to the religion forum. I grew up agnostic and the religions I am most familiar with (as in having practised them) are Japanese (Shinto/Buddist). My wife's family practises both religions as do most Japanese. Although many Japanese are shy when it comes to religion. This is begause within the last century Shinto was made the State Religion of Japan and was used by the State to legitimize all sorts of terrible atrocities.

However, I blame the state for those actions and not the Shinto belief system.

In any case I wanted to create a thread on Shinto to explore this little understood religion. As a person who has been to many Shinto Shrines throughout Japan and have participated in many Shinto/Buddhist rituals in Japan I think this is a remarkable religion that needn't apply only to Japan.

Link

I particularly like how the Japanese have combined aspects of Buddhism and Shinto to create a unique set of beliefs and traditions many of which I find very compelling.

Shinto pervades almost every aspect of Japanese life including the entertainment forms that are exported to the US such as Manga and Anime. These media are rife with Shinto influence. Especially the very popular animated films of Miyazaki Hayao, like the recent films "Spirited Away" (Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi) and "The Princess Mononoke" (Mononoke Hime) which are as saturated in religious ideas and iconography as any religious cartoon that an American Christian Church might produce, and yet unlike western prostiligious fair it is adopted and dissimenated as pure entertainment. Partialy this is due to our ignorance of Shinto beliefs (we don't realize the films are heavily religious and they aren't advertised as such so we don't care).

The Shinto religion is also the only example that I am aware of, of a "primitive" animistic religion surviving and being widely practised by a high tech modern first world nation.

Anyway. That is enough of a post for now but I would be eager to discuss Shinto with anyone who has an interest.

NeedsREALfreedom · Joined: 04 Oct 2004 Posts: 1761 Location: MN, USA

I'm not a particular fan of Anime but I've really enjoyed every Miyazaki Hayao film I've seen. I don't know much about Shinto, but have always been curious. I remember reading that Shinto is not so much a religion as it is a set of, for lack of a better word, superstitions. For example, many Japanese Christians and Buddhists are followers of Shinto, not following Shinto as its own religion, but as an augmentation of their own religion.

Katsumoto · Joined: 09 Aug 2005 Posts: 2004 Location: Orygun

NeedsREALfreedom wrote: I'm not a particular fan of Anime but I've really enjoyed every Miyazaki Hayao film I've seen.

I am the same. Unfortunately in Japan, Anime is usually of higher quality that live action.... Miyazaki Hayao however is a genius IMO.

Quote: I don't know much about Shinto, but have always been curious. I remember reading that Shinto is not so much a religion as it is a set of, for lack of a better word, superstitions. For example, many Japanese Christians and Buddhists are followers of Shinto, not following Shinto as its own religion, but as an augmentation of their own religion.

Well I think Shinto is very much a religion, just as Buddhism is, but Shinto does not require exclusive belief from its followers. In other words from the Shinto perspective it is perfectly fine for one to practice christianity and still worship at shinto shrines. To a believer in Shinto, the Christian god is one of an infinate number of Kami. For Japanese Christians the Christian concept of God is often thought of as the Supreme Kami.

snow · Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 669

I just did a presentation on Shinto. . . really tough to find info on it. I covered some of the festivals like shichi-go-san, new year's, welcoming of spring, etc. :)

Katsumoto · Joined: 09 Aug 2005 Posts: 2004 Location: Orygun

snow wrote: I just did a presentation on Shinto. . . really tough to find info on it. I covered some of the festivals like shichi-go-san, new year's, welcoming of spring, etc. :)

I would be interested to hear some of the thoughts you have on those festivles and what role they play in the Shinto belief system.

wormwood · Joined: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 2780 Location: The P-Brane

Quote: festivals like shichi-go-san My Japanese is a little rusty, but doesn't this mean the "7-5-3" festival?

Katsumoto · Joined: 09 Aug 2005 Posts: 2004 Location: Orygun

wormwood wrote: Quote: festivals like shichi-go-san My Japanese is a little rusty, but doesn't this mean the "7-5-3" festival?

Yes. The festival is for children. Girls aged 3 and 7, and boys aged 5. Not positive on the significance of those ages.

wormwood · Joined: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 2780 Location: The P-Brane

Quote: Yes. The festival is for children. Girls aged 3 and 7, and boys aged 5. Not positive on the significance of those ages. Those numbers have signifigance in some early pagan religions...do you think it could be influence from one of those other earlier religions?

snow · Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 669

Katsumoto wrote: wormwood wrote: Quote: festivals like shichi-go-san My Japanese is a little rusty, but doesn't this mean the "7-5-3" festival?

Yes. The festival is for children. Girls aged 3 and 7, and boys aged 5. Not positive on the significance of those ages.

I believe this one of those festivals that had more meaning in times long ago. The idea was that, if the children made it to these ages, that would mark them as permanent members in the community and surely meant they would make it into adulthood. Infant mortality was high in Japan, but modern medicine reversed this. They often didn't even receive their names until they were 3 years old. Those numbers could be lucky as well, I'm not sure.

snow · Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 669

wormwood wrote: Those numbers have signifigance in some early pagan religions...do you think it could be influence from one of those other earlier religions?

3/5/7 or 2/4/6? Remember, Japanese children are considered 1 when they are born, so to us, the ages are really 2/4/6.

wormwood · Joined: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 2780 Location: The P-Brane

Quote: I believe this one of those festivals that had more meaning in times long ago. The idea was that, if the children made it to these ages, that would mark them as permanent members in the community and surely meant they would make it into adulthood. Infant mortality was high in Japan, but modern medicine reversed this. They often didn't even receive their names until they were 3 years old. Those numbers could be lucky as well, I'm not sure. Good point, and interesting as well.

Quote: 3/5/7 or 2/4/6? Remember, Japanese children are considered 1 when they are born, so to us, the ages are really 2/4/6. Ah, well I wasn't taking into account that they are considered one at birth. Of these numbers only 6 would really make sense in the pagan context since 6 is the most "perfect" number or whatever. Hence the 6 months of 60 days creating a 360 day calendar of the ancient world. 2 and 4 don't mean anything too profound, so that theory is probably out. Your explaination of the festival sounds completely reasonable to me, and is probably correct.

Katsumoto · Joined: 09 Aug 2005 Posts: 2004 Location: Orygun

One interesting thing that I found in talking with my wife (who is typically Japanese when it comes to religion) is that the Japanese blur the desticntion between the native Shinto beliefs and the Buddhist belief systems that were imported in several waves beginning in the 7th century AD.

When questioned my wife was unable to draw the line between her two belief systems. She did not know which were Shinto and which were Buddhist. Growing up she had in her house both a Buddhist alter or "Butsudan", and a household Shinto shrine or "Kamidana" (lit. "Shelf of the Gods). These are both still there at her parents home, and when ever we go to visit we pray before the Altar, but strangely not the shrine.

I am told that when praying at the Buddhist altar, we are praying to her family's ancestors, who exist now as Kami and continually watch over and protect the family. However, the belief that once dead you become "Kami" and watch over your decendants is a particularly Shinto belief (also shared with Taoism/Confucianism) yet the altar to which we pray is a Buddhist one.

The Shinto shrine on the other hand, houses the household spirit. I gather (though I am not certain) that this is the actual spirit of the house itself, and not connected to any person. When the house was built, a Shinto priest came to intern the household Kami within the shrine. The shrine is regularly stocked with fresh offerings for the Kami of Rice and Sake and my inlaws pray at the shrine daily. The priest visits at regular intervals (yearly?) to perform a ritual (the meaning of which my wife was unclear on). A similar process occurs when a new car is bought.

There seems to be a correlation between celebration and Shinto ritual, and Mourning and Buddhist ritual. Weddings, Births, Graduations, and other celebratory events as well as festivals and the New Year are associated with Shinto and take place at Shinto Shrines, while Funerals are strictly buddhist affairs.

I find the way in which the Japanese mix these two very different belief systems fascinating.