Political Crossfire Forums

[xsuite]

this one quote that i found on the web is very "mindsparking"....

Quote: "We are looking through different windows at the same light."
- Robert Ripley, on the topic of religion.

that one quote seems very plausible, yet very not-plausible.

My question to the posters, is what is your opinion on that phrase?

[Korimyr the Rat]

I think it is part of the fundamentally flawed belief that deep down, we're all really the same and that the differences between us are unsubstantial and artificial.

My morals are different than other mens', and so I revere different gods and I revere them in different ways.

[mojo]

Korimyr the Rat wrote: I think it is part of the fundamentally flawed belief that deep down, we're all really the same and that the differences between us are unsubstantial and artificial.

My morals are different than other mens', and so I revere different gods and I revere them in different ways.

I will elaborate on your point.

Genetically speaking we are extremely alike. I believe we are only 3 percent of error off of being pigs. Our actual genetic differences between us are so minute that it is almost of a divine nature that we are so different.

Are differences huge differences on a behaviorial scale lend a strong argument for the human soul. Or something that changes how we make choices.

[Saracen]

xsuite wrote: this one quote that i found on the web is very "mindsparking"....

Quote: "We are looking through different windows at the same light."
- Robert Ripley, on the topic of religion.

that one quote seems very plausible, yet very not-plausible.

My question to the posters, is what is your opinion on that phrase?

As Muslims, Christians and Jews, we all pray to the same God.

[ieatfood]

Saracen wrote: xsuite wrote: this one quote that i found on the web is very "mindsparking"....

Quote: "We are looking through different windows at the same light."
- Robert Ripley, on the topic of religion.

that one quote seems very plausible, yet very not-plausible.

My question to the posters, is what is your opinion on that phrase?

As Muslims, Christians and Jews, we all pray to the same God.

clearly not

sunni muslims beileve that God will send all christians to burn in hellfire

christians believe that God will send them to heaven.

clearly, these people are not praying to the same god
or maybe god is just schizophrenic...

[wormwood]

Quote: clearly not

sunni muslims beileve that God will send all christians to burn in hellfire

christians believe that God will send them to heaven.

clearly, these people are not praying to the same god
or maybe god is just schizophrenic... Is it God that is schizo, or the people that claim to speak in his name? In my opinion this :
Quote: "We are looking through different windows at the same light."
- Robert Ripley, on the topic of religion. is very similar to what I've been saying on this forum about the nature of religion. When I made similar claims, what I meant was not that we all worship the God of Abraham in one form or another, though to some extent that may be true. What I meant was that each culture has obtained a glimpse of God, and somewhere at their core, most religions are actually the same, or lean toward the same ends. I do believe that some cultures have retained a more pure version of truth than others, but most still hold fragments of truth at least. There are a few religious constants that we seem to have at least retained as important. First is an appeal to something mystical or greater than ourselves; people reaching outside of themselves for power, guidance, or emotional endurance. Secondly, there is a moral code which helps maintain enduring order. Third, there is an alpha and an omega which reflects the battle of order vs chaos (to some degree). These are all of course just my observations, but if you really read the holy texts or stories from many religions you will see reoccurring themes and characters throughout. It is how the people who receive this truth have reacted to these stories and visionaries, that shapes what a religion becomes.

Also, if there was an omnipotent God that loves us all, why would he deliver his message to one group of people and say screw the rest?

Now on a side note... I am not sure how many of you watch the history channel, but occasionally they will do a special about dragons. The conclusion that is inevitably reached at the end of these dragon shows is that dragons are a sort of "genetic memory" which combines the characteristics of predators that primitive man would have been afraid of (snakes, birds of prey, and something else). These traits combine to from the mental image of a dragon which almost every culture on earth would recognize. Please bear with me. So, could these commonalities of religion be along the same lines? Could the recognizing of "gods" in the ancient world be merely the genetic recognition of outside forces acting upon the earth (electromagnetic energy, radiation from space etc)? Could the battle of order vs chaos be a cellular memory from the beginning of our universe or even the beginning of time when the very laws of nature sprang into being?

There is an undeniable portion of humanity that is religious, or at least has a sense of spirituality. There are only two reasonable explanations for this (in my mind); either there were really "supernatural" beings walking this earth and interacting with people and bestowing knowledge which shaped the ancient world, or we all collectively "remember" a Godly influence on the universe which can be appealed to or even harnessed under the right circumstances. In either case, the "damage" (severe differentiation) to a religion comes when people begin interpreting or adding to the message to make it culturally relevant. You can even witness this phenomenon within the same religion (i.e. protestant reformation and the resulting cornucopia of culturally relevant sects that emerged).

[VBach37]

God is perfect; unchanging and unerring. Only human understanding of God differs from person to person.

[Kt]

xsuite wrote: this one quote that i found on the web is very "mindsparking"....

Quote: "We are looking through different windows at the same light."
- Robert Ripley, on the topic of religion.

that one quote seems very plausible, yet very not-plausible.

My question to the posters, is what is your opinion on that phrase?

I think not, there is a very diverse world of religions out there, and they are all different.

[Saracen]

ieatfood wrote: Saracen wrote: xsuite wrote: this one quote that i found on the web is very "mindsparking"....

Quote: "We are looking through different windows at the same light."
- Robert Ripley, on the topic of religion.

that one quote seems very plausible, yet very not-plausible.

My question to the posters, is what is your opinion on that phrase?

As Muslims, Christians and Jews, we all pray to the same God.

clearly not

sunni muslims beileve that God will send all christians to burn in hellfire

christians believe that God will send them to heaven.

clearly, these people are not praying to the same god
or maybe god is just schizophrenic...

Not really. If you read the Koran, you will find that it says that believers, Jews, Christians, Muslims and Sabaeans who believe in the Last Day and do good will have nothing to fear or regret from their lives, and are awarded Heaven.

[Rankor and Pissing]

Saracen wrote: ieatfood wrote: Saracen wrote: xsuite wrote: this one quote that i found on the web is very "mindsparking"....

Quote: "We are looking through different windows at the same light."
- Robert Ripley, on the topic of religion.

that one quote seems very plausible, yet very not-plausible.

My question to the posters, is what is your opinion on that phrase?

As Muslims, Christians and Jews, we all pray to the same God.

clearly not

sunni muslims beileve that God will send all christians to burn in hellfire

christians believe that God will send them to heaven.

clearly, these people are not praying to the same god
or maybe god is just schizophrenic...

Not really. If you read the Koran, you will find that it says that believers, Jews, Christians, Muslims and Sabaeans who believe in the Last Day and do good will have nothing to fear or regret from their lives, and are awarded Heaven.

While many times I've been contrary to Saracen's opinions, he's right. The God of Abraham (Ibrahim) is the same through Jewish, Christian and Islam. At the very highest level, both the Torah, Christian Old Testament and the Koran relay very similar messages and happenings. So while the same God is prayed to, where we diverge further is at the savior/prophet level. Israel's still waiting for a Messiah, Christian's broke away from the Jewish faith when Jesus became the savior and messiah, the Islam who recognized Jesus as a prophet only, identified Muhammed as the last prophet of Allah (or God).

Now, once we get into the details, teachings and writings, the similarities stop and all three move very far apart - as well, man's interpretation has always played a very large roll in this - even within sects of each (for example the Mormons and Baptists in Christianity).

[xsuite]

Saracen wrote: ieatfood wrote: Saracen wrote: xsuite wrote: this one quote that i found on the web is very "mindsparking"....

Quote: "We are looking through different windows at the same light."
- Robert Ripley, on the topic of religion.

that one quote seems very plausible, yet very not-plausible.

My question to the posters, is what is your opinion on that phrase?

As Muslims, Christians and Jews, we all pray to the same God.

clearly not

sunni muslims beileve that God will send all christians to burn in hellfire

christians believe that God will send them to heaven.

clearly, these people are not praying to the same god
or maybe god is just schizophrenic...

Not really. If you read the Koran, you will find that it says that believers, Jews, Christians, Muslims and Sabaeans who believe in the Last Day and do good will have nothing to fear or regret from their lives, and are awarded Heaven.

What exactly is this Last Day?

[Saracen]

xsuite wrote: What exactly is this Last Day?

The Day of Judgement.

[perdidochas]

IMHO, if you look at devout believers of most religions, you could not tell one from another. Their actions/behaviors would not be much different.

[xsuite]

Saracen wrote: xsuite wrote: What exactly is this Last Day?

The Day of Judgement.

OK i thought so. specifically does that mean that we have to beleive in A unreligiously specified end Judgment or a specific relion's judgement day belief?

[eynon]

xsuite wrote: Saracen wrote: xsuite wrote: What exactly is this Last Day?

The Day of Judgement.

OK i thought so. specifically does that mean that we have to beleive in A unreligiously specified end Judgment or a specific relion's judgement day belief?

If I may be so bold, I believe what Saracen was alluding to was the fact that those of us who are members of an Abrahamic faith believe that one day God will make you account for the life that you've lived.

[neoritter]

wormwood wrote: Quote: clearly not

sunni muslims beileve that God will send all christians to burn in hellfire

christians believe that God will send them to heaven.

clearly, these people are not praying to the same god
or maybe god is just schizophrenic... Is it God that is schizo, or the people that claim to speak in his name? In my opinion this :
Quote: "We are looking through different windows at the same light."
- Robert Ripley, on the topic of religion. is very similar to what I've been saying on this forum about the nature of religion. When I made similar claims, what I meant was not that we all worship the God of Abraham in one form or another, though to some extent that may be true. What I meant was that each culture has obtained a glimpse of God, and somewhere at their core, most religions are actually the same, or lean toward the same ends. I do believe that some cultures have retained a more pure version of truth than others, but most still hold fragments of truth at least. There are a few religious constants that we seem to have at least retained as important. First is an appeal to something mystical or greater than ourselves; people reaching outside of themselves for power, guidance, or emotional endurance. Secondly, there is a moral code which helps maintain enduring order. Third, there is an alpha and an omega which reflects the battle of order vs chaos (to some degree). These are all of course just my observations, but if you really read the holy texts or stories from many religions you will see reoccurring themes and characters throughout. It is how the people who receive this truth have reacted to these stories and visionaries, that shapes what a religion becomes.

Also, if there was an omnipotent God that loves us all, why would he deliver his message to one group of people and say screw the rest?

Now on a side note... I am not sure how many of you watch the history channel, but occasionally they will do a special about dragons. The conclusion that is inevitably reached at the end of these dragon shows is that dragons are a sort of "genetic memory" which combines the characteristics of predators that primitive man would have been afraid of (snakes, birds of prey, and something else). These traits combine to from the mental image of a dragon which almost every culture on earth would recognize. Please bear with me. So, could these commonalities of religion be along the same lines? Could the recognizing of "gods" in the ancient world be merely the genetic recognition of outside forces acting upon the earth (electromagnetic energy, radiation from space etc)? Could the battle of order vs chaos be a cellular memory from the beginning of our universe or even the beginning of time when the very laws of nature sprang into being?

There is an undeniable portion of humanity that is religious, or at least has a sense of spirituality. There are only two reasonable explanations for this (in my mind); either there were really "supernatural" beings walking this earth and interacting with people and bestowing knowledge which shaped the ancient world, or we all collectively "remember" a Godly influence on the universe which can be appealed to or even harnessed under the right circumstances. In either case, the "damage" (severe differentiation) to a religion comes when people begin interpreting or adding to the message to make it culturally relevant. You can even witness this phenomenon within the same religion (i.e. protestant reformation and the resulting cornucopia of culturally relevant sects that emerged).
From a agnostic/atheistic standpoint I wholeheartedly agree with this. I've told an abbreviated Buddhist tale at least once on this forum, but I will say it again.
One day some monks were looking at an elephant, one was looking at the tail and said it was a whip, another was looking at the trunk and claimed it to be a water spout, another looking at the elephant's ears and claimed it to be a fan, the last was looking that the legs and declared it to be a tree trunk.
Basically each monk was looking at the elephant and drawing a conclusion based at what they were looking at. I think in a sense religion is like that too. Each culture had a different view on what the "true word" was.

[Todd D.]

soldierofchrist wrote: I don't see why everyone is hung up on saying only Islam, Judaism, and Christianity worship the same God. I say all religions do, but they worship different aspects, and perspectives of God. And in my opinion, much like Psholtz, "accepting Jesus" does not a Christian make. Living your life like Christ is Christian. And in that case, some of the best Christians I know don't believe in God...
I concur.

If I wear a catcher's mit, sit behind home plate, and pick people off that are trying to steal second, then I can think I'm playing football all I want. That wouldn't change the fact that I'm still a catcher.

[Random Evil Guy]

xsuite wrote: this one quote that i found on the web is very "mindsparking"....

Quote: "We are looking through different windows at the same light."
- Robert Ripley, on the topic of religion.

that one quote seems very plausible, yet very not-plausible.

My question to the posters, is what is your opinion on that phrase?

it's nonsense. it's a poor attempt by theists to justify their own beliefs basically by argument ad numerum. 'look, all we theists basically believe the same thing, ergo it MUST be true...'.

[Saracen]

soldierofchrist wrote: I don't see why everyone is hung up on saying only Islam, Judaism, and Christianity worship the same God. I say all religions do, but they worship different aspects, and perspectives of God. And in my opinion, much like Psholtz, "accepting Jesus" does not a Christian make. Living your life like Christ is Christian. And in that case, some of the best Christians I know don't believe in God...

Yes, indeed. In fact, it was believed that many religious figures in Hinduism are actually the same as those in the Abrahamic faiths, despite it being a Dharmic faith (you know, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, etc.).

Allahu Akbar! (God is the Greatest)

[cap'n queasy]

All religions are basically the same in that they promote the idea that it is our own doings which can redeem us. They promote the idea that our own work can cover or eliminate our sins. (even religions that say there is no sin say they can make you a better human being in some fashion).

That we can work in such a way so that God owes us salvation. Look at Cain, he offered up the works of his hands and God did not accept it, and this work was good make no mistake. But something was missing. The thing is, he thought it was his diligent work that justified him. Consider what happened to him. He was jealous of Abel, who offered up only his faith in God and was accepted even though he was but a lowly shepherd in comparison to Cain who had worked so hard to build a nice life for his family. So he was eaten up with sinful jealousy and killed Abel. He and his entire family paid the price for not having his sin redeemed.

The work of our hands cannot cover our sins, neither can it eliminate them any more than some fig leaves can protect you from the elements when you are naked. This sin exists, it happened and cannot be changed, what is done is done and cannot be undone. At best we can hope that God will forgive them. No matter how many good deeds are piled on top of these sins the foundation of our works is still rotten if sin is not forgiven. Would you build a house on a rotten, unstable foundation and expect it to last?

That is where Y'shua comes in. He died on the cross to pay for our sins so they can be forgiven. This gives us a firm foundation to build our lives and works upon.

All religions are worthless except as a social structure that promotes a decent society, which is a good thing but does not eliminate sin. As we all know even the most decent social structure will still contain people who sin. All within the structure will be sinners, there is no getting around that. We need something more than religion.

We must have faith that God will do what he said He will do. This information is contained in the Bible. He said He will send the Messiah to die for our sins and if we accept the Messiah as our savior we will be forgiven for our sins and He did this. And He will do everything else He said He is going to do. We must have faith in what God said He would do.

That is our only possible redeeming quality as human beings.

God Bless.