Political Crossfire Forums

[leftneckredwing]

Medical system is leading cause of death and injury in US

Shocking statistical evidence is cited by Gary Null PhD, Caroly Dean MD ND, Martin Feldman MD, Debora Rasio MD and Dorothy Smith PhD in their recent paper Death by Medicine - October 2003, released by the Nutrition Institute of America.

"A definitive review and close reading of medical peer-review journals, and government health statistics shows that American medicine frequently causes more harm than good. The number of people having in-hospital, adverse drug reactions (ADR) to prescribed medicine is 2.2 million. Dr. Richard Besser, of the CDC, in 1995, said the number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections was 20 million. Dr. Besser, in 2003, now refers to tens of millions of unnecessary antibiotics. The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million. The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million. The total number of iatrogenic deaths shown in the following table is 783,936. It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States. The 2001 heart disease annual death rate is 699,697; the annual cancer death rate, 553,251.

Health Care expenditures in the US have reached 14% of the Gross National Product and a staggering $1.6 trillion in 2003. No wonder, one might be tempted to say. With such an appalling record of efficacy and such an unbelievable death rate for the treatments routinely administered, the current medical system can only be said to be in great need of deep reform.

Certainly it would appear more urgent to investigate the rationale, efficacy and relative cost-effectiveness of pharmaceutical medicine than to legislate restrictive rules for supplements of vital nutrients, as most governments and some international organisations are doing in these times.

The Nutrition Institute of America

October 28, 2003

Deadly Medical Mistakes Exposed

New York, New York - New information has been presented showing the degree to which Americans have been subjected to injury and death by medical errors. The results of seven years of research reviewing thousands of studies conducted by the NIA now show that medical errors are the number one cause of death and injury in the United States.

According to the NIA's report, over 784,000 people die annually due to medical mistakes. Comparatively, the 2001 annual death rate for heart disease was 699,697 and the annual death rate for cancer was 553,251.

Over 2.2 million people are injured every year by prescription drugs alone and over 20 million unnecessary prescriptions for antibiotics are prescribed annually for viral infections. The report also shows that 7.5 million unnecessary medical and surgical procedures are performed every year and 8.9 million people are needlessly hospitalized annually. Based on the results of NIA's report, it is evident that there is a pressing need for an overhaul of the entire American medical system.

The findings, described as a "revelation" by Martin Feldman, MD, who helped to uncover the evidence, are the product of the first comprehensive studies on iatrogenic incidents. Never before has any study uncovered such a massive amount of information with regard to iatrogenesis. Historically, only small individual partial studies have been performed in this area.

Carolyn Dean, MD, a physician and author who also helped to uncover the findings said, "I was completely shocked, amazed, and dismayed when I first added up all the statistics on medical death and saw how much allopathic medicine has betrayed us."

The Nutrition Institute of America is a not-for-profit, non-partisan organization that has been enlightening the public on health issues for nearly 30 years.
Download the whole report here.

For more information, contact David Slater, President of NIA at (646) 505 - 4660 x 155.
Alternatively contact: Richard Polonetsky (646)-505-4660 x171


Dr. Carolyn Dean and Trueman Tuck have recently published a book: Available from Ashtree
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So from this, we can see that we are most at risk when we are in a doctors care.

Guns appear pretty safe compared to Doctors and the medical system.

[Addison]

I'm not sure I understand. Guns are good because medicine is bad? Guns are needed to off wiley Doctors who are trying to prescribe us anti-biotics? Why is this in Gun Control?

The fact is that there are guns that have no other use than to shoot and possibly kill another human being. For instance, hunting rifles kill animals, but handguns are not meant to kill deadly bears or snakes which might attack us in our homes. Some guns, I admit, are for defending our home and space- but no one can tell me honestly that a Tec-9 was created to help Mrs. Housewife protect her children. Many guns are mass-produced and are used only by criminals or people intending to become criminals.

[Wolverine]

Good post leftneckredwing. :tu:


Quote: The fact is that there are guns that have no other use than to shoot and possibly kill another human being.
Do you really want to commit yourself to that?

Quote: For instance, hunting rifles kill animals, but handguns are not meant to kill deadly bears or snakes which might attack us in our homes.
Many are designed for competition. Would you believe I killed a rattlesnake with a handgun once?

Quote: Some guns, I admit, are for defending our home and space- but no one can tell me honestly that a Tec-9 was created to help Mrs. Housewife protect her children.
It can be used that way, not that what it was intended for makes a difference.

Quote: Many guns are mass-produced and are used only by criminals or people intending to become criminals.
I would like to see proof.

[leftneckredwing]

Addison wrote: I'm not sure I understand. Guns are good because medicine is bad? Guns are needed to off wiley Doctors who are trying to prescribe us anti-biotics? Why is this in Gun Control?

The fact is that there are guns that have no other use than to shoot and possibly kill another human being. For instance, hunting rifles kill animals, but handguns are not meant to kill deadly bears or snakes which might attack us in our homes. Some guns, I admit, are for defending our home and space- but no one can tell me honestly that a Tec-9 was created to help Mrs. Housewife protect her children. Many guns are mass-produced and are used only by criminals or people intending to become criminals.

Have you ever been bear hunting or moose hunting?

You pack a big pistol up north to go hunting for either one. You don't want to walk up on a wounded animal of that size and not have something for very close range once they are down.

We all know all about criminal that have weapons.

The focus in this forum is that guns are inherently evil or are accidentally a huge cause of death. This thread is to demonstrate that medicine, a profession populated by the most educated among us, is even more dangerous. This is a counter thread.

[Jefferson]

Addison wrote: I'm not sure I understand. Guns are good because medicine is bad? Guns are needed to off wiley Doctors who are trying to prescribe us anti-biotics? Why is this in Gun Control?

The fact is that there are guns that have no other use than to shoot and possibly kill another human being. For instance, hunting rifles kill animals, but handguns are not meant to kill deadly bears or snakes which might attack us in our homes. Some guns, I admit, are for defending our home and space- but no one can tell me honestly that a Tec-9 was created to help Mrs. Housewife protect her children. Many guns are mass-produced and are used only by criminals or people intending to become criminals.


The fact is that there are guns that have no other use than to shoot and possibly kill another human being makes that gun a PROTECTED item under the part 2 of the Bill of Rights.

So then if your using the arguement to ban guns based on the concept of 'no other use but to kill another human being' makes your idea ILLEGAL.

Time for a solid dose of reality. Guns for killing another person is what the 2nd Amendment is all about. It is for the killing of other people who want to take away your civil rights. Here is the 2nd Amendments text:

'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

There is nothing there about making guns for hunting the only gun for ownership. It is quite the opposite. This text is very clear. It means that guns suitable for military service is what this text is about, it is not about duck guns.

Guns like the Tec-9 are PERFECT for home defense. Firepower is what protects the person behind the gun. What do you suggest? A politically correct gun? That is what this is about for you isn't it? It is political correctness. Your looking for a political correct behavior you what to impose on people with guns.

[galba]

Addison wrote:
The fact is that there are guns that have no other use than to shoot and possibly kill another human being.

Huh? Hunting? Target Shooting?

Addison wrote:
For instance, hunting rifles kill animals, but handguns are not meant to kill deadly bears or snakes which might attack us in our homes.

.44 Magnum is a great backup weapon.


Addison wrote:
Some guns, I admit, are for defending our home and space- but no one can tell me honestly that a Tec-9 was created to help Mrs. Housewife protect her children.

No, but a Tec-9 can be used for that purpose.


Addison wrote:
Many guns are mass-produced and are used only by criminals or people intending to become criminals.
Like the army? Explain.

[leftneckredwing]

I'm surprised by the anti gun people that have not responded to this thread.

I will take it that the only thing they are really against are guns. Not the loss of life and harm done. The relevance of lost lives is not their agenda, but contro is their real agenda.

To me this proves they don;t care about people, but are only interested in power. No shock there, but this crystallises what many of us thought.

[perdidochas]

Addison wrote: I'm not sure I understand. Guns are good because medicine is bad? Guns are needed to off wiley Doctors who are trying to prescribe us anti-biotics? Why is this in Gun Control?

The fact is that there are guns that have no other use than to shoot and possibly kill another human being. For instance, hunting rifles kill animals, but handguns are not meant to kill deadly bears or snakes which might attack us in our homes. Some guns, I admit, are for defending our home and space- but no one can tell me honestly that a Tec-9 was created to help Mrs. Housewife protect her children. Many guns are mass-produced and are used only by criminals or people intending to become criminals.

So what. A Tec-9 was designed so stupid people would buy it. Every product review I've read of the Tec-9 and similar SMG looking "pistols" say that they are hard to shoot accurately, and are not worth the price of the steel put into them. (basically they are too heavy and bulky to use efficiently as a handgun). No guns are used "only" by criminals. That is an absurd idea.

Also, there are handguns meant to kill bears. Ruger makes a "snub-nosed" version of it's .454 primarily for bear defense. The .500 S&W (the world's most powerful revolver) also has a shorter version primarily intended for bear defense.

There are also a lot of handguns used for snake shooting. Most of the major ammo makers make "shot" cartridges for handguns, that are primarily intended for snake and rodent shooting.

There is no better home defense weapon than a handgun. I have tried to walk around a house with a shotgun and with a handgun, with the aim of seeing how practical each was for home defense. My conclusion was that for in-house use, the handgun was most practical, as it was much easier to maneuver and get on target through the house. The shotgun was too big.

[Lucky Luke]

leftneckredwing wrote: I'm surprised by the anti gun people that have not responded to this thread.

I will take it that the only thing they are really against are guns. Not the loss of life and harm done. The relevance of lost lives is not their agenda, but contro is their real agenda.

To me this proves they don;t care about people, but are only interested in power. No shock there, but this crystallises what many of us thought.

Another attempt of a repeated silly claim from lovely gun lovers loving their lovely guns.

Doctors are regulated like no other people in today's world. It take them years of education to be able to practice medicine and can be stoke off at any time afterwards.

People dying in the hands of doctors were ill, people dying from the hand of a gun owner were not. The first ones asked to be cured, nobody asks to be gun down.

Come on Leftneckredwing, what is the Libertarian Party's line on doctors' regulations? Should they be abolished or should gun owners follow the same path that doctors followed before to be allowed to practice?

What make you think that supporters of tough gun control laws would want doctors to practice without education or regulation?

This is your most pathetic attempt at opening a thread in this forum yet Leftredwing.

:-D
:-D

[Lucky Luke]

perdidochas wrote: Addison wrote: I'm not sure I understand. Guns are good because medicine is bad? Guns are needed to off wiley Doctors who are trying to prescribe us anti-biotics? Why is this in Gun Control?

The fact is that there are guns that have no other use than to shoot and possibly kill another human being. For instance, hunting rifles kill animals, but handguns are not meant to kill deadly bears or snakes which might attack us in our homes. Some guns, I admit, are for defending our home and space- but no one can tell me honestly that a Tec-9 was created to help Mrs. Housewife protect her children. Many guns are mass-produced and are used only by criminals or people intending to become criminals.

So what. A Tec-9 was designed so stupid people would buy it. Every product review I've read of the Tec-9 and similar SMG looking "pistols" say that they are hard to shoot accurately, and are not worth the price of the steel put into them. (basically they are too heavy and bulky to use efficiently as a handgun). No guns are used "only" by criminals. That is an absurd idea.

Also, there are handguns meant to kill bears. Ruger makes a "snub-nosed" version of it's .454 primarily for bear defense. The .500 S&W (the world's most powerful revolver) also has a shorter version primarily intended for bear defense.

There are also a lot of handguns used for snake shooting. Most of the major ammo makers make "shot" cartridges for handguns, that are primarily intended for snake and rodent shooting.

There is no better home defense weapon than a handgun. I have tried to walk around a house with a shotgun and with a handgun, with the aim of seeing how practical each was for home defense. My conclusion was that for in-house use, the handgun was most practical, as it was much easier to maneuver and get on target through the house. The shotgun was too big.

Property crime level are the same in states with or without tough gun control laws Perdidochas, handguns do not do anything for home defence but they are used in more than half of all murders in America every year.

:-D
:-D

[leftneckredwing]

Lucky Luke wrote: leftneckredwing wrote: I'm surprised by the anti gun people that have not responded to this thread.

I will take it that the only thing they are really against are guns. Not the loss of life and harm done. The relevance of lost lives is not their agenda, but contro is their real agenda.

To me this proves they don;t care about people, but are only interested in power. No shock there, but this crystallises what many of us thought.

Another attempt of a repeated silly claim from lovely gun lovers loving their lovely guns.

Doctors are regulated like no other people in today's world. It take them years of education to be able to practice medicine and can be stoke off at any time afterwards.

People dying in the hands of doctors were ill, people dying from the hand of a gun owner were not. The first ones asked to be cured, nobody asks to be gun down.

Come on Leftneckredwing, what is the Libertarian Party's line on doctors' regulations? Should they be abolished or should gun owners follow the same path that doctors followed before to be allowed to practice?

What make you think that supporters of tough gun control laws would want doctors to practice without education or regulation?

This is your most pathetic attempt at opening a thread in this forum yet Leftredwing.

:-D
:-D



The most pathetic thing in this thread is your whining.

Here you see all the evidence presented by Doctor's themselves and you're not cognizant of what they are saying. You will, no doubt, cling to your whiny anti gun rant and claim that every one is wrong but you.

Poor poor widdle Wucy.


:moon:

:moon:

[mattman42]

I don't think the person who posted this thread was trying to claim that people murdering each other with guns isn't a bad thing. I think that the intention was to point out that gun violence isn't an epidemic as some would have everyone believe.

As for guns being intended to kill people... Well no s**t Sherlock! That's why I have them! I certainly don't want to use a BB gun to defend myself against any human.

[perdidochas]

Lucky Luke wrote: perdidochas wrote: Addison wrote: I'm not sure I understand. Guns are good because medicine is bad? Guns are needed to off wiley Doctors who are trying to prescribe us anti-biotics? Why is this in Gun Control?

The fact is that there are guns that have no other use than to shoot and possibly kill another human being. For instance, hunting rifles kill animals, but handguns are not meant to kill deadly bears or snakes which might attack us in our homes. Some guns, I admit, are for defending our home and space- but no one can tell me honestly that a Tec-9 was created to help Mrs. Housewife protect her children. Many guns are mass-produced and are used only by criminals or people intending to become criminals.

So what. A Tec-9 was designed so stupid people would buy it. Every product review I've read of the Tec-9 and similar SMG looking "pistols" say that they are hard to shoot accurately, and are not worth the price of the steel put into them. (basically they are too heavy and bulky to use efficiently as a handgun). No guns are used "only" by criminals. That is an absurd idea.

Also, there are handguns meant to kill bears. Ruger makes a "snub-nosed" version of it's .454 primarily for bear defense. The .500 S&W (the world's most powerful revolver) also has a shorter version primarily intended for bear defense.

There are also a lot of handguns used for snake shooting. Most of the major ammo makers make "shot" cartridges for handguns, that are primarily intended for snake and rodent shooting.

There is no better home defense weapon than a handgun. I have tried to walk around a house with a shotgun and with a handgun, with the aim of seeing how practical each was for home defense. My conclusion was that for in-house use, the handgun was most practical, as it was much easier to maneuver and get on target through the house. The shotgun was too big.

Property crime level are the same in states with or without tough gun control laws Perdidochas, handguns do not do anything for home defence but they are used in more than half of all murders in America every year.

:-D
:-D

Most murders are done by criminals (with criminal records) involved in some type of criminal activity. Very few law-abiding people snap and suddenly murder someone.

In terms of gun control, the CDC in a very comprehensive study determined that they could not find any evidence for a relationship between gun control and crime in America. [url=http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm]First Reports Evaluating the Effectiveness of Strategies for Preventing Violence: Firearms Laws
[/url]

Since that is the case, there is no logical reason to have gun control in America. It does nothing to add to, nor take away from violence. Since there is logically no positive effect to have gun control, the position most in tune with liberty is to not have gun control.

My guns do nothing to increase crime. More than likely, they do nothing to decrease crime either. There is no logical reason for the government to deny me the ownership of them. The better solution is to lock up repeat offenders or misusers of guns. I have no problem with 2 offenses=life in prison, in terms of violent crimes involving guns. In fact, I think it would reduce crime more than any other measure.

[leftneckredwing]

mattman42 wrote: I don't think the person who posted this thread was trying to claim that people murdering each other with guns isn't a bad thing. I think that the intention was to point out that gun violence isn't an epidemic as some would have everyone believe.

As for guns being intended to kill people... Well no s**t Sherlock! That's why I have them! I certainly don't want to use a BB gun to defend myself against any human.

Thank you for clarifying for the comprehension impaired.

And forgive me for breaking my oath of non response.

[mattman42]

leftneckredwing wrote: mattman42 wrote: I don't think the person who posted this thread was trying to claim that people murdering each other with guns isn't a bad thing. I think that the intention was to point out that gun violence isn't an epidemic as some would have everyone believe.

As for guns being intended to kill people... Well no s**t Sherlock! That's why I have them! I certainly don't want to use a BB gun to defend myself against any human.

Thank you for clarifying for the comprehension impaired.

And forgive me for breaking my oath of non response.

It's understandable. When people spew complete and utter BS someone has to point it out.

ETA - Post 357. Heh. 8:)

[Lucky Luke]

leftneckredwing wrote:

The most pathetic thing in this thread is your whining.

Here you see all the evidence presented by Doctor's themselves and you're not cognizant of what they are saying. You will, no doubt, cling to your whiny anti gun rant and claim that every one is wrong but you.

Poor poor widdle Wucy.


:moon:

:moon:

What are you trying to prove Leftneckredwing except that more regulation is needed to avoid deaths?

It would be silly to suggest that doctors should not be registered anymore and anyone should be allowed to practice medicine without rules or regulations and yet you are using this example to help your cause, how?

:-D
:-D

[Lucky Luke]

mattman42 wrote: I don't think the person who posted this thread was trying to claim that people murdering each other with guns isn't a bad thing. I think that the intention was to point out that gun violence isn't an epidemic as some would have everyone believe.

As for guns being intended to kill people... Well no s**t Sherlock! That's why I have them! I certainly don't want to use a BB gun to defend myself against any human.

This is progress when one of you lovely gun lovers loving their lovely guns is clear on why he has a gun for, to kill.

As proven earlier guns are useless at defending anyone in America when put in the wrong hands, the American gun owners' hands.

Thank you for your honesty Mattman42.
:-D
:-D

[leftneckredwing]

Lucky Luke wrote: mattman42 wrote: I don't think the person who posted this thread was trying to claim that people murdering each other with guns isn't a bad thing. I think that the intention was to point out that gun violence isn't an epidemic as some would have everyone believe.

As for guns being intended to kill people... Well no s**t Sherlock! That's why I have them! I certainly don't want to use a BB gun to defend myself against any human.

This is progress when one of you lovely gun lovers loving their lovely guns is clear on why he has a gun for, to kill.

As proven earlier guns are useless at defending anyone in America when put in the wrong hands, the American gun owners' hands.

Thank you for your honesty Mattman42.
:-D
:-D

I wouldn't be too hasty to test that theory. We love to shoot our lovely guns you know.

[leftneckredwing]

Lucky Luke wrote: leftneckredwing wrote:

The most pathetic thing in this thread is your whining.

Here you see all the evidence presented by Doctor's themselves and you're not cognizant of what they are saying. You will, no doubt, cling to your whiny anti gun rant and claim that every one is wrong but you.

Poor poor widdle Wucy.


:moon:

:moon:

What are you trying to prove Leftneckredwing except that more regulation is needed to avoid deaths?

It would be silly to suggest that doctors should not be registered anymore and anyone should be allowed to practice medicine without rules or regulations and yet you are using this example to help your cause, how?

:-D
:-D

Doctors are more dangersous than guns, so you should be campainging to get rid of them. That's how.

If an educated class of people are this dangerous and responsible for this much damage and death, it helps quite a bit. Gunners, by accident nor design nor by intention nor by crime come remotely close to these figures.

[Lucky Luke]

perdidochas wrote:

Most murders are done by criminals (with criminal records) involved in some type of criminal activity. Very few law-abiding people snap and suddenly murder someone.

..............

Why should I believe you Perdodochas? Here is what the FBI has found out:
Quote: Circumstances
The supplemental homicide data showed that the circumstances were unknown for 35.0 percent of the murders that occurred in 2004. For the murders for which the circumstances were known, 22.8 percent of the murders involved another felony, such as forcible rape, robbery, or burglary. Investigators suspected that another 1.3 percent of homicides likely resulted during another felonious activity.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_crime/murder.html

That is less than a quarter of all murders involving another felony Perdidochas, you will find in the same link that most murders are caused by a simple argument between members of the same family.
This is exactly what people in America do, they snapped and they shoot each other dead.

Please provide a quote from a reliable source with a link telling us that "Most murders are done by criminals (with criminal records) involved in some type of criminal activity".

I'll be waiting.

:-D
:-D