Political Crossfire Forums

[Reverend_HellH0und]

Free Thinkr wrote: jasonireland wrote: Do you think it is easier to run around chasing animals , than harvesting a crop grown in your own garden? hmmmm....
Have, uh, you ever kept a garden?

:lol:

[leftneckredwing]

jasonireland wrote: ha!!! you just proved my point.....(about the humour/frustration thing)

protein can be obtained from many, many sources both from vegetables and nuts seeds and soya and tofu .. the list goes on......

Harvesting meat is bad for the environment and unless you can personally kill an animal i hardly think its ethical that you claim pork and steak is good....yep tastes great but see you in 50 years......

Man has k9s... hmmmmmm....., we have arms too, shouldnt we live in the trees? We have crazy sexual appetites and urges , does that mean we should give into these too and just do as we feel?

I suggest you stop digging that hole or you wont get out....

It was some monkeys that ate meat millenia ago, that gave us our ability to think as we do.

Eating meat made us human. It is the protein in meat that allowed our brains to grow and increase function. So what's your problem with that? Or maybe you do want to swing from the trees and throw turds at each other?

[ikari]

People can be vegan if they want, I care not. It's not for me, however. I like meat, I like vegetables, I like fruits, and grains,....I'm a great omnivore. Quite honestly, vegan is something that really has to be researched before you dive into it. Because of its strict limitation on dairy, meats, etc; you are forced to get the necessary nutrition from other sources. It's not impossible, but to get all the full protein you need you have to eat a ridiculous number of different beans (beans being the best non-meat source of protein). It's actually quite easy to eat unhealthy on a vegan diet.

Regardless, I shall continue eating fish and beef and pork and buffalo and chicken and turkey and......

[Reverend_HellH0und]

Being a Vegan is an insult to mother nature. It is as unnatural as a fish on a bicycle....

[leftneckredwing]

Reverend_HellH0und wrote: Being a Vegan is an insult to mother nature. It is as unnatural as a fish on a bicycle....

Like this?

[perdidochas]

forthegreatergood wrote: Many countries exist separately from other countries because of different beliefs or doctrines. I have a scenario for beings to ponder. What if this planet was divided with one hemisphere populated by herbivores/vegetarian/vegans and the other hemisphere populated by carnivores/cannibals/omnivores/meat-eaters

What if one hemisphere was wholly vegetarian, focusing on agriculture and producing and appreciating vegetation and crops, which would help the atmosphere with vegetation/flora's ability to filter/circulate air, as well as other abilities. Creatures called animals would not be eaten. Do you think "animal" creatures behavior and aggression would change knowing that their loved ones were not massacred and born for human consumption?

Yep, the vegetarians would be in for big trouble. The animals would realize that you are no threat, and would walk all over you.



forthegreatergood wrote: What if one hemisphere was wholly fellow flesh creature-eaters, producing their fellow creature family for food, Feeding off of each other, Paying money for carcasses to eat. These beings are omnivores/carnivores/.

Sounds good.


forthegreatergood wrote: How do you think the societies would progress and differ from each other over a hundreds or thousand of years? Consider variables such as pollution, ethics, political organization,military, technology, biofuel, oil, culture, religion, reincarnation, etc....

The omnivores would soon conquer the herbivores.


forthegreatergood wrote: Do you think there should be a vegetarian/vegan country? Wouldn't it be interesting to see how it would progress and how it would develop?

Hmm, India is primarily vegetarian. Look how peaceful they are.....

[perdidochas]

Free Thinkr wrote: jasonireland wrote: Do you think it is easier to run around chasing animals , than harvesting a crop grown in your own garden? hmmmm....
Have, uh, you ever kept a garden?

That, and preserved the produce. Gardening doesn't produce food all year.

[perdidochas]

jasonireland wrote: Do you think it is easier to run around chasing animals , than harvesting a crop grown in your own garden? hmmmm....


Yes. An average hunter/gatherer works less than 2.4 hrs a day gathering resources to survive. A farmer requires more than 6 hrs a day of work to survive.

[Eduffy80911]

Free Thinkr wrote: jasonireland wrote: Do you think it is easier to run around chasing animals , than harvesting a crop grown in your own garden? hmmmm....
Have, uh, you ever kept a garden?

I have and I think putting a bullet in a cows head is much easier than tending crops.

If we evolve along different paths (vegans and meat eaters) the vegans should keep in mind that before humans ate meat they had very large bellies. This means that the meat eaters will get all the good looking chicks.

[Free Thinkr]

Eduffy80911 wrote: Free Thinkr wrote: jasonireland wrote: Do you think it is easier to run around chasing animals , than harvesting a crop grown in your own garden? hmmmm....
Have, uh, you ever kept a garden?

I have and I think putting a bullet in a cows head is much easier than tending crops.
I couldn't agree more. When I was growing up, my parents kept a small garden in the field that used to exist behind our house (it was later develepoed), and I can tell you from firsthand experience, gardening is no simple chore. The garden we kept needed constant watering and weeding, needed to be roto-tilled at the start of every season, and only supplemented our diets with fresh produce; the garden produced nowhere near enough food for our family.

[Gdawg007]

Reverend_HellH0und wrote: jasonireland wrote: ha!!! you just proved my point.....(about the humour/frustration thing)

protein can be obtained from many, many sources both from vegetables and nuts seeds and soya and tofu .. the list goes on......

Harvesting meat is bad for the environment and unless you can personally kill an animal i hardly think its ethical that you claim pork and steak is good....yep tastes great but see you in 50 years......

Man has k9s... hmmmmmm....., we have arms too, shouldnt we live in the trees? We have crazy sexual appetites and urges , does that mean we should give into these too and just do as we feel?

I suggest you stop digging that hole or you wont get out....





Come for a walk with me up in the north woods this winter... We will be gone a month.... All food will be obtained while on our walk... Meaning we have to Hunt Gather....


You would not last 2 weeks eating the flora you find and will be begging me for some of my hunted meat...

It is only by the comforts offered by society that allows you to live the unnatural life as a vegetarian.

Game, Set, Match.

Actually, you are the one who is out of touch. Hunting takes a lot of energy and is pretty difficult, especially back in the days BEFORE scoped rifiles. Man hunted in groups and rarely caught meat. The notion that hunting was the primary source of food is so wrong it's laugable. It's clear that modern man has gotten much more protien in his/her diet than when we lacked hunting technology just based on our body weight and height.

So while today hunting is easier, though still not easy, the easiest and least energy intensive way to find food for ANY animal is to forage. and the easiest kind of food to find foraging is vegetables. The bear is also an omnivore and it consumes much more plant matter than meat, by the way...

Of course a diet devoid of meat isn't what we were designed for either. But we certainly didn't eat more as often as we do now, probably more on the order of once a month or so back before we developed more advanced hunting tools. Also, don't forget, that hunting was dangerous. Not every animal out there hunting with man feared man, so in a natural state, I'd say man ate considerable more vegetable and plant foods than meat.

[Reverend_HellH0und]

Gdawg007 wrote: Reverend_HellH0und wrote: jasonireland wrote: ha!!! you just proved my point.....(about the humour/frustration thing)

protein can be obtained from many, many sources both from vegetables and nuts seeds and soya and tofu .. the list goes on......

Harvesting meat is bad for the environment and unless you can personally kill an animal i hardly think its ethical that you claim pork and steak is good....yep tastes great but see you in 50 years......

Man has k9s... hmmmmmm....., we have arms too, shouldnt we live in the trees? We have crazy sexual appetites and urges , does that mean we should give into these too and just do as we feel?

I suggest you stop digging that hole or you wont get out....





Come for a walk with me up in the north woods this winter... We will be gone a month.... All food will be obtained while on our walk... Meaning we have to Hunt Gather....


You would not last 2 weeks eating the flora you find and will be begging me for some of my hunted meat...

It is only by the comforts offered by society that allows you to live the unnatural life as a vegetarian.

Game, Set, Match.

Actually, you are the one who is out of touch. Hunting takes a lot of energy and is pretty difficult, especially back in the days BEFORE scoped rifiles. Man hunted in groups and rarely caught meat. The notion that hunting was the primary source of food is so wrong it's laugable. It's clear that modern man has gotten much more protien in his/her diet than when we lacked hunting technology just based on our body weight and height.



Uhmmm which is easier to do in the winter... Grow crops or hunt?


Quote: So while today hunting is easier, though still not easy, the easiest and least energy intensive way to find food for ANY animal is to forage. and the easiest kind of food to find foraging is vegetables. The bear is also an omnivore and it consumes much more plant matter than meat, by the way...



Forage in the UP of Michigan in February and you will starve.


Also BEARS HIBERNATE :lol:

Quote: Of course a diet devoid of meat isn't what we were designed for either. But we certainly didn't eat more as often as we do now, probably more on the order of once a month or so back before we developed more advanced hunting tools. Also, don't forget, that hunting was dangerous. Not every animal out there hunting with man feared man, so in a natural state, I'd say man ate considerable more vegetable and plant foods than meat.

We are predators, we eat meat... simple as that.

[Gdawg007]

Reverend_HellH0und wrote: Gdawg007 wrote: Reverend_HellH0und wrote: jasonireland wrote: ha!!! you just proved my point.....(about the humour/frustration thing)

protein can be obtained from many, many sources both from vegetables and nuts seeds and soya and tofu .. the list goes on......

Harvesting meat is bad for the environment and unless you can personally kill an animal i hardly think its ethical that you claim pork and steak is good....yep tastes great but see you in 50 years......

Man has k9s... hmmmmmm....., we have arms too, shouldnt we live in the trees? We have crazy sexual appetites and urges , does that mean we should give into these too and just do as we feel?

I suggest you stop digging that hole or you wont get out....





Come for a walk with me up in the north woods this winter... We will be gone a month.... All food will be obtained while on our walk... Meaning we have to Hunt Gather....


You would not last 2 weeks eating the flora you find and will be begging me for some of my hunted meat...

It is only by the comforts offered by society that allows you to live the unnatural life as a vegetarian.

Game, Set, Match.

Actually, you are the one who is out of touch. Hunting takes a lot of energy and is pretty difficult, especially back in the days BEFORE scoped rifiles. Man hunted in groups and rarely caught meat. The notion that hunting was the primary source of food is so wrong it's laugable. It's clear that modern man has gotten much more protien in his/her diet than when we lacked hunting technology just based on our body weight and height.



Uhmmm which is easier to do in the winter... Grow crops or hunt?

Still foraging is the most efficient and easiest activity. I said nothing about growing crops by the way, but to address that not everywhere on the globe has a "winter" season. There are many places where crops and plants grow year round, by the way. And there are places on the planet where there just isn't enough animal life to support human beings needs.


Quote: So while today hunting is easier, though still not easy, the easiest and least energy intensive way to find food for ANY animal is to forage. and the easiest kind of food to find foraging is vegetables. The bear is also an omnivore and it consumes much more plant matter than meat, by the way...



Forage in the UP of Michigan in February and you will starve.[/quote]

See above. Also note that man did not live in these areas until technology made it possible.


Quote: Also BEARS HIBERNATE :lol:

As their adaptive mechanism for living in areas with winter. Tell me, where did man originate? Did they originate where bears did? No, not at all. They lived in much warmer climates that didn't have large snowfalls that required hibernation. Our technology has allowed us to live in colder climates.

Oh, and if there's always an abundence of animals for ominvores like bears to eat, why hibernate? Why not hunt all winter..? If you can answer that one, you've got me. But you can't. Bears hibernate during the winter because there isn't enough vegetable matter to sustain them. They cannot eat solely meat, and they don't. Neither can humans.

Quote: Quote: Of course a diet devoid of meat isn't what we were designed for either. But we certainly didn't eat more as often as we do now, probably more on the order of once a month or so back before we developed more advanced hunting tools. Also, don't forget, that hunting was dangerous. Not every animal out there hunting with man feared man, so in a natural state, I'd say man ate considerable more vegetable and plant foods than meat.

We are predators, we eat meat... simple as that.

No, we are omnivores. We are not the best equipped preditors out there either. In fact, one of our best evolutionary features, our eyesight, is designed to make us very good foragers. We can see so many colors in order to distinguish the many different types of plants out there. Most preditors, dogs, cats, and their respective wild counterparts, cannot see as many colors as we can...

[Reverend_HellH0und]

Gdawg007 wrote: Reverend_HellH0und wrote: Gdawg007 wrote: Reverend_HellH0und wrote: jasonireland wrote: ha!!! you just proved my point.....(about the humour/frustration thing)

protein can be obtained from many, many sources both from vegetables and nuts seeds and soya and tofu .. the list goes on......

Harvesting meat is bad for the environment and unless you can personally kill an animal i hardly think its ethical that you claim pork and steak is good....yep tastes great but see you in 50 years......

Man has k9s... hmmmmmm....., we have arms too, shouldnt we live in the trees? We have crazy sexual appetites and urges , does that mean we should give into these too and just do as we feel?

I suggest you stop digging that hole or you wont get out....





Come for a walk with me up in the north woods this winter... We will be gone a month.... All food will be obtained while on our walk... Meaning we have to Hunt Gather....


You would not last 2 weeks eating the flora you find and will be begging me for some of my hunted meat...

It is only by the comforts offered by society that allows you to live the unnatural life as a vegetarian.

Game, Set, Match.

Actually, you are the one who is out of touch. Hunting takes a lot of energy and is pretty difficult, especially back in the days BEFORE scoped rifiles. Man hunted in groups and rarely caught meat. The notion that hunting was the primary source of food is so wrong it's laugable. It's clear that modern man has gotten much more protien in his/her diet than when we lacked hunting technology just based on our body weight and height.



Uhmmm which is easier to do in the winter... Grow crops or hunt?

Still foraging is the most efficient and easiest activity. I said nothing about growing crops by the way, but to address that not everywhere on the globe has a "winter" season. There are many places where crops and plants grow year round, by the way. And there are places on the planet where there just isn't enough animal life to support human beings needs.


Well I guess a needs assesment is in order. Fact remains we are wired omnivores that love our meat.


Quote:
Quote: So while today hunting is easier, though still not easy, the easiest and least energy intensive way to find food for ANY animal is to forage. and the easiest kind of food to find foraging is vegetables. The bear is also an omnivore and it consumes much more plant matter than meat, by the way...



Forage in the UP of Michigan in February and you will starve.

See above. Also note that man did not live in these areas until technology made it possible.[/quote]


Then who put all those damn eskimos up there? :lol:


Quote:
Quote: Also BEARS HIBERNATE :lol:

As their adaptive mechanism for living in areas with winter. Tell me, where did man originate? Did they originate where bears did? No, not at all. They lived in much warmer climates that didn't have large snowfalls that required hibernation. Our technology has allowed us to live in colder climates.

Oh, and if there's always an abundence of animals for ominvores like bears to eat, why hibernate? Why not hunt all winter..? If you can answer that one, you've got me. But you can't. Bears hibernate during the winter because there isn't enough vegetable matter to sustain them. They cannot eat solely meat, and they don't. Neither can humans.



Never once did I claim we were carnivores. We are omnivores in which meat is an important part of our balanced existence with mother nature.

Quote:
Quote: Quote: Of course a diet devoid of meat isn't what we were designed for either. But we certainly didn't eat more as often as we do now, probably more on the order of once a month or so back before we developed more advanced hunting tools. Also, don't forget, that hunting was dangerous. Not every animal out there hunting with man feared man, so in a natural state, I'd say man ate considerable more vegetable and plant foods than meat.

We are predators, we eat meat... simple as that.

No, we are omnivores. We are not the best equipped preditors out there either. In fact, one of our best evolutionary features, our eyesight, is designed to make us very good foragers. We can see so many colors in order to distinguish the many different types of plants out there. Most preditors, dogs, cats, and their respective wild counterparts, cannot see as many colors as we can... [/quote]

We are omnivores yes. We also have big brains that allow us to harvest meat even though we are slower and less agile than many prey, :wink:

[Eduffy80911]

Reverend_HellH0und wrote: Gdawg007 wrote: Reverend_HellH0und wrote: Gdawg007 wrote: Reverend_HellH0und wrote: jasonireland wrote: ha!!! you just proved my point.....(about the humour/frustration thing)

protein can be obtained from many, many sources both from vegetables and nuts seeds and soya and tofu .. the list goes on......

Harvesting meat is bad for the environment and unless you can personally kill an animal i hardly think its ethical that you claim pork and steak is good....yep tastes great but see you in 50 years......

Man has k9s... hmmmmmm....., we have arms too, shouldnt we live in the trees? We have crazy sexual appetites and urges , does that mean we should give into these too and just do as we feel?

I suggest you stop digging that hole or you wont get out....





Come for a walk with me up in the north woods this winter... We will be gone a month.... All food will be obtained while on our walk... Meaning we have to Hunt Gather....


You would not last 2 weeks eating the flora you find and will be begging me for some of my hunted meat...

It is only by the comforts offered by society that allows you to live the unnatural life as a vegetarian.

Game, Set, Match.

Actually, you are the one who is out of touch. Hunting takes a lot of energy and is pretty difficult, especially back in the days BEFORE scoped rifiles. Man hunted in groups and rarely caught meat. The notion that hunting was the primary source of food is so wrong it's laugable. It's clear that modern man has gotten much more protien in his/her diet than when we lacked hunting technology just based on our body weight and height.



Uhmmm which is easier to do in the winter... Grow crops or hunt?

Still foraging is the most efficient and easiest activity. I said nothing about growing crops by the way, but to address that not everywhere on the globe has a "winter" season. There are many places where crops and plants grow year round, by the way. And there are places on the planet where there just isn't enough animal life to support human beings needs.


Well I guess a needs assesment is in order. Fact remains we are wired omnivores that love our meat.


Quote:
Quote: So while today hunting is easier, though still not easy, the easiest and least energy intensive way to find food for ANY animal is to forage. and the easiest kind of food to find foraging is vegetables. The bear is also an omnivore and it consumes much more plant matter than meat, by the way...



Forage in the UP of Michigan in February and you will starve.

See above. Also note that man did not live in these areas until technology made it possible.


Then who put all those damn eskimos up there? :lol:


Quote:
Quote: Also BEARS HIBERNATE :lol:

As their adaptive mechanism for living in areas with winter. Tell me, where did man originate? Did they originate where bears did? No, not at all. They lived in much warmer climates that didn't have large snowfalls that required hibernation. Our technology has allowed us to live in colder climates.

Oh, and if there's always an abundence of animals for ominvores like bears to eat, why hibernate? Why not hunt all winter..? If you can answer that one, you've got me. But you can't. Bears hibernate during the winter because there isn't enough vegetable matter to sustain them. They cannot eat solely meat, and they don't. Neither can humans.



Never once did I claim we were carnivores. We are omnivores in which meat is an important part of our balanced existence with mother nature.

Quote:
Quote: Quote: Of course a diet devoid of meat isn't what we were designed for either. But we certainly didn't eat more as often as we do now, probably more on the order of once a month or so back before we developed more advanced hunting tools. Also, don't forget, that hunting was dangerous. Not every animal out there hunting with man feared man, so in a natural state, I'd say man ate considerable more vegetable and plant foods than meat.

We are predators, we eat meat... simple as that.

No, we are omnivores. We are not the best equipped preditors out there either. In fact, one of our best evolutionary features, our eyesight, is designed to make us very good foragers. We can see so many colors in order to distinguish the many different types of plants out there. Most preditors, dogs, cats, and their respective wild counterparts, cannot see as many colors as we can... [/quote]

We are omnivores yes. We also have big brains that allow us to harvest meat even though we are slower and less agile than many prey, :wink:[/quote]

Quoting an entire page of posts to make a one line reply is very annoying.

[DavidXV]

Would the spotted owl be allowed to keep eating mice or be required to switch to almond joys?

[Eduffy80911]

DavidXV wrote: Would the spotted owl be allowed to keep eating mice or be required to switch to almond joys?

and how do we get fish to stop eating other fish?

[perdidochas]

Gdawg007 wrote:
Actually, you are the one who is out of touch. Hunting takes a lot of energy and is pretty difficult, especially back in the days BEFORE scoped rifiles. Man hunted in groups and rarely caught meat. The notion that hunting was the primary source of food is so wrong it's laugable. It's clear that modern man has gotten much more protien in his/her diet than when we lacked hunting technology just based on our body weight and height.

Wrong. Hunter gatherers worked an average of 600 hours a year hunting and gathering. The early farmers worked an average of 2000 hrs a year farming.

Gdawg007 wrote: So while today hunting is easier, though still not easy, the easiest and least energy intensive way to find food for ANY animal is to forage. and the easiest kind of food to find foraging is vegetables. The bear is also an omnivore and it consumes much more plant matter than meat, by the way...

Nobody here claims that humans are carnivores. The OP mentioned a vegetarian society and a carnivore/omnivore society.

Gdawg007 wrote: Of course a diet devoid of meat isn't what we were designed for either. But we certainly didn't eat more as often as we do now, probably more on the order of once a month or so back before we developed more advanced hunting tools. Also, don't forget, that hunting was dangerous. Not every animal out there hunting with man feared man, so in a natural state, I'd say man ate considerable more vegetable and plant foods than meat.

Depends on the society, and their locale. The Inuit (Eskimos) ate primarily meat, with the exception of occasionally eating berries (in season, a very short season) and the gut contents of caribou (i.e. the partially digested grasses).

[buddha]

Gdawg007 wrote:
Oh, and if there's always an abundence of animals for ominvores like bears to eat, why hibernate? Why not hunt all winter..? If you can answer that one, you've got me. But you can't. Bears hibernate during the winter because there isn't enough vegetable matter to sustain them. They cannot eat solely meat, and they don't. Neither can humans.


Didn't the Maasai sustain themselves on meat and animal products?

[buddha]

perdidochas wrote:
Hunter gatherers worked an average of 600 hours a year hunting and gathering. The early farmers worked an average of 2000 hrs a year farming.


Were did you get those figures? From the book Guns, Germs, and Steel the reason for moving from being hunter gathers to being agrarian was that more food could be produced with less effort.