Political Crossfire Forums

[sLiPpY]

There are some, who believe the M and L material not found in Mark or Q, what scholars would call the special M and L materials...is actually a Syncretism. Some would point to the addition of the birth narratives, which they believe to be a wholesale copy of the story of Horus. And might further explain why the Koran is in agreement with M and L.

Consider the following summary of Horus.

Horus was concieved by the Virgin Meri, the only begotten son of the God Osiris. Seb was his earthly father, notice (Jo-Seph). The foster father was of royal descent, notice Joseph's linage being traced to Kind David.

Horus was born in a cave, and his birth was announced by an angel to his mother. The star Sirius, the morning star heralded his birth. Ancient Egyptians would parade a manger and a child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice, typically Dec. 21.

Horus's birth was announced by angels, and shepherds witnessed it. Later three solar deities showed up, which differs from the wise men...and no where does it say how many wise men showed up, but traditionally the church accepts the count as three.

Unfortunately Herut tried to have Horus murdered after his birth. *coughs* So God tells Horus' mother "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." I've always wondered why Joseph was told to take the young Jesus and flee into Egypt?

Horus came of age with a special ritual, similar to Jeus being taken to the temple for what is today called a bar mitzvah ritual. Both events occurred at the age of 12. Unfortunately we no nothing of either Horus or Jesus between the ages of 12 and 30?

Horus was Baptized in the river Eridanus, at the age of 30 by Anup the Baptiser. Eventually, Anup was beheaded. *coughs*

Poor ole' Horus was tempted. Taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain by his arch-rival Sut. Sut was a precursor for the Hebrew Satan?

Horus had twelve close friends, aka disciples. Like Jesus, Horus walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. Horus, "stilled the sea by his power."

Horus even raised Osirus, his dead father, from the grave.

As an encore! In the city of Anu, the rites of the death, burial and resurrection of Horus were enacted annually. That dude was even seen transfigured on a mountain, and his key address was known as the Sermon on the Mount.

Horus was brutially crusified, and accompanied by two thieves before being placed in a tomb. Not to fret though, because right after Horus decended into Hell, he was resurrected after three days...which a group of women announced. Someday when Horus returns, he'll reign for 1,000 years.

:?

It seems to me, that the story of Horus may very well explain where that special M and L material came from.

[John]

Hmmmm....doesn't seem to be very good scholarship you have there....


http://tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html

[sLiPpY]

John wrote: Hmmmm....doesn't seem to be very good scholarship you have there....


http://tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html

The following are sources, which support the findings John's link point's out.

1. Magic and Religion-Their Psychological Nature, Origin and
Function - George B Vetter
2. The Evolution of Man and Society - C.D. Darlington
3. Out of Chaos - Louis Joseph Halle

http://hnn.us/articles/6641.html Here's another interesting article, that seems to explain where some of the more erroneous information on the subject is being forwarded from. Canada of all places. :lol:


Here are some interesting quotes:

In the ancient world there was a very widespread belief in the sufferings and deaths of gods as being beneficial to man. Adonis, Attis, Dionysos, Herakles, Mithra, Osiris, and other deities, were all saviour-gods whose deaths were regarded as sacrifices made on behalf of mankind; and it is to be noticed that in almost every case there is clear evidence that the god sacrificed himself to himself.

Sir Arthur Weigall, The Paganism in Our Christianity

Osiris was successively god of the Nile, a life-giver, a sun-god, god of justice and love, and finally a resurrected god who ruled in the afterlife. The most popular legend about Osiris is one of a resurrected god. He was killed by Set, the god of darkness Osiris was then resurrected and went to live on high. Osiris became the first of a long line of resurrected deities Tammuz, Mithras, Balder, Christ. Every spring the life of Osiris was re-enacted at Abydos in a stirring passion play, dating back to the eighteenth or nineteenth century before Christ. This play is the earliest record in history of drama.

Gerald L. Berry, Religions of the World

Comparative translations:

On a stela dating from the 18th Dynasty (1570-1070 bce) appears a hymn to Osiris that, per Christian Egyptologist Budge's translation, reads in part:

Thou hast made this earth by thy hand, and the waters thereof, and the wind thereof, the herb thereof, all the cattle thereof, all the winged fowl thereof, all the fish thereof, all the creeping things thereof, and all the four-footed beasts thereof.

The similarities between this passage as translated and the biblical creation account written centuries later are striking. In Genesis (1:24), "God" creates the earth and says:

Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds; cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.


This is a really interesting topic. Seems like there are some compelling points from credible sources, as to the impact of Jews being in Egypt may have had upon Judaism, and later Christianity.

All in all, it's like comparing text that are supportive of Christianity...some of it's complete and utter BS, and then there are the more valid points intersperced like diamonds inbetween.

[Todd D.]

sLiPpY wrote: Horus was concieved by the Virgin Meri
No he was not. He was conceived by Isis.

Quote: the only begotten son of the God Osiris.
Osiris was A god, not the almighty. He was the Sun God that had died long before Horus was born, hence the reason that they thougt that Horus WAS Osiris.

Quote: Seb was his earthly father, notice (Jo-Seph). The foster father was of royal descent, notice Joseph's linage being traced to Kind David.
Seb != Joseph.

Quote: Horus was born in a cave, and his birth was announced by an angel to his mother. The star Sirius, the morning star heralded his birth. Ancient Egyptians would parade a manger and a child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice, typically Dec. 21.
Horus was announced by Thoth, who is the Jewish idea of Michael the Archangel, not Gabriel. Wrong angel.

Quote: Horus's birth was announced by angels, and shepherds witnessed it. Later three solar deities showed up, which differs from the wise men...and no where does it say how many wise men showed up, but traditionally the church accepts the count as three.
Right, it's different.

Quote: Unfortunately Herut tried to have Horus murdered after his birth. *coughs* So God tells Horus' mother "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." I've always wondered why Joseph was told to take the young Jesus and flee into Egypt?
God? They had no concept of the Almighty in the way that Christians and Jews understand it.

Quote: Horus came of age with a special ritual, similar to Jeus being taken to the temple for what is today called a bar mitzvah ritual. Both events occurred at the age of 12. Unfortunately we no nothing of either Horus or Jesus between the ages of 12 and 30?
We know quite a bit about the Horus legend in between those years.

Quote: Horus was Baptized in the river Eridanus, at the age of 30 by Anup the Baptiser. Eventually, Anup was beheaded. *coughs*
Outright lie.

I really don't have time for the rest right now, I'll come back later.

[sLiPpY]

Todd D. wrote: sLiPpY wrote: Horus was concieved by the Virgin Meri
No he was not. He was conceived by Isis.

That is correct, however Isis is also known as Meri (the sea-goddess) and by an incredible amount of other titles and names. Similar to Yahweh, Jehovah or however you feel like saying it today. ;)

Quote: the only begotten son of the God Osiris.
Osiris was A god, not the almighty. He was the Sun God that had died long before Horus was born, hence the reason that they thougt that Horus WAS Osiris.

http://www.touregypt.net/afterlife2.htm You might want to revisit that concept. Link covers the Egyptian view of "the Almighty" complete with footnotes. Which isn't to say, I'm decided on the subject...just that for me it's still open for examination. :)

Quote: Seb was his earthly father, notice (Jo-Seph). The foster father was of royal descent, notice Joseph's linage being traced to Kind David.
Seb != Joseph.

Quote: Horus was born in a cave, and his birth was announced by an angel to his mother. The star Sirius, the morning star heralded his birth. Ancient Egyptians would parade a manger and a child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice, typically Dec. 21.
Horus was announced by Thoth, who is the Jewish idea of Michael the Archangel, not Gabriel. Wrong angel.

Quote: Horus's birth was announced by angels, and shepherds witnessed it. Later three solar deities showed up, which differs from the wise men...and no where does it say how many wise men showed up, but traditionally the church accepts the count as three.
Right, it's different.

Quote: Unfortunately Herut tried to have Horus murdered after his birth. *coughs* So God tells Horus' mother "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." I've always wondered why Joseph was told to take the young Jesus and flee into Egypt?
God? They had no concept of the Almighty in the way that Christians and Jews understand it.

uhh, see link above...this one's still open for question. Although I know for fact, that the Virgin Mary is often depicted as Isis with Horus. I'm not 100 percent sure of the quote's validity.

Quote: Horus came of age with a special ritual, similar to Jeus being taken to the temple for what is today called a bar mitzvah ritual. Both events occurred at the age of 12. Unfortunately we no nothing of either Horus or Jesus between the ages of 12 and 30?
We know quite a bit about the Horus legend in between those years.

Quote: Horus was Baptized in the river Eridanus, at the age of 30 by Anup the Baptiser. Eventually, Anup was beheaded. *coughs*
Outright lie.

Now that is a valid possibility. There was indeed an Anup, but an "Anup the Baptizer?" Of that I cannot be sure there is valid lore, although I would consider the story of John the Baptist to be "valid lore." I don't necessarily believe the dude existed. ;)

I really don't have time for the rest right now, I'll come back later.

Thanks for posting, and please bring more information to light.

[psholtz]

Yes slippy, like I posted on that other thread, Jesus was the "savior" of the Egyptians, not the Jews.. Specifically, it was the Magi (operating in Egypt, and elsewhere) who prophesized his coming (almost to the minute), who were on the lookout for signs of his birth, and - as even the Bible records - traveled to Bethlehem to meet the Savior in his manger, bringing him gifts fit for a king.

The Jews were completely unaware of these happenings, nor did they much care then, nor do they much care now.

The correlations between Horus and Jesus is just one more link pointing to the "Egyptian" connect of Jesus, and hinting (perhaps) that Jesus was trained in the ways of the Egyptians prior to beginning his ministry in Judea..

My original post on this topic can be viewed here:

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51735&start=0#1245647

[psholtz]

John wrote: Hmmmm....doesn't seem to be very good scholarship you have there....


http://tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html
That's really funny, coming from you...

Judging others for their lack of "good scholarship".. :lol:

[sLiPpY]

psholtz wrote: Yes slippy, like I posted on that other thread, Jesus was the "savior" of the Egyptians, not the Jews.. Specifically, it was the Magi (operating in Egypt, and elsewhere) who prophesized his coming (almost to the minute), who were on the lookout for signs of his birth, and - as even the Bible records - traveled to Bethlehem to meet the Savior in his manger, bringing him gifts fit for a king.

The Jews were completely unaware of these happenings, nor did they much care then, nor do they much care now.

The correlations between Horus and Jesus is just one more link pointing to the "Egyptian" connect of Jesus, and hinting (perhaps) that Jesus was trained in the ways of the Egyptians prior to beginning his ministry in Judea..

My original post on this topic can be viewed here:

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51735&start=0#1245647

Thanks for the link, and *scratches head* what do you think about the Coptic's?

[Random Evil Guy]

i've heard about some of this stuff before. i think it was some guy named tom harpur who's behind most of it, but apparantly a lot of it has been debunked(for example the virgin birth and crucifiction of horus).

although, i don't think the point is that somehow jesus was horus. the point is that they've borrowed/stolen a lot of stuff from all kinds of myths throughout time(horus, mithras, hercules etc) and kind of put together their own 'saviour myth'.

[sLiPpY]

Random Evil Guy wrote: i've heard about some of this stuff before. i think it was some guy named tom harpur who's behind most of it, but apparantly a lot of it has been debunked(for example the virgin birth and crucifiction of horus).

although, i don't think the point is that somehow jesus was horus. the point is that they've borrowed/stolen a lot of stuff from all kinds of myths throughout time(horus, mithras, hercules etc) and kind of put together their own 'saviour myth'.

We're on the same wave. :hip:

[cap'n queasy]

sLiPpY wrote:

Thanks for the link, and *scratches head* what do you think about the Coptic's?

I think they are waiting for the second coming.

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: The Orthodox Creed

CONGREGATION: We believe in one God, God the Father, the Pantocrator, who created heaven and earth, and all things seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only-Begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages; Light of light, true God of true God, begotten not created, of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made; Who for us men and our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary, and became Man. And he was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried. And the third day He rose from the dead, according to the scriptures, ascended into the heavens; he sits at the right hand of his Father, and He is coming again in his glory to judge the living and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end. Yes, we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Life-Giver, who proceeds from the Father, who with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And in one holy, catholic and apostolic church. We confess one baptism for the remission of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the coming age. Amen.

http://www.coptic.net/prayers/StBasilLiturgy.html

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: sLiPpY wrote:

Thanks for the link, and *scratches head* what do you think about the Coptic's?

I think they are waiting for the second coming.
.. and they'll be waiting for a very, very long time.. :lol:

[cap'n queasy]

:lol:

I don't think it will be very long.

[cap'n queasy]

If this is the "dawning of a New Age" I would take note of the fact that the sky is red this morning, if I were you. :lol:

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: If this is the "dawning of a New Age" I would take note of the fact that the sky is red this morning, if I were you. :lol:
Duly noted.. :tu: :-D

[Plodder]

you know I can make up a load of trash, heck look at the Da vinci code, thats a whole book of lies.

[psholtz]

Plodder wrote: you know I can make up a load of trash, heck look at the Da vinci code, thats a whole book of lies.
Do you think the "trash" you could think up would last for 3,000 years? Do you think people will still be reading the Da Vince Code 3,000 years from now?

[sLiPpY]

psholtz wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: sLiPpY wrote:

Thanks for the link, and *scratches head* what do you think about the Coptic's?

I think they are waiting for the second coming.
.. and they'll be waiting for a very, very long time.. :lol:

:think: It's the "gift" that keeps on giving, and giving, and giving, and giving....and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving.

:shock: Like the Eveready Bunny Miracle! :lol:

[Random Evil Guy]

heh, it's both funny and a bit pathetic. christians have believed they are living in the last days for nearly 2000 years now... :)