Political Crossfire Forums

[LostSoul3412]

The first thing I have to ask is: "Are you really surprised?"

Of course we're only human capital. In a capitalist society with a capitalist economy, everything has a price tag on it. Including a human being. Marketing corporations exist for the sole purpose of attempting to draw consumers to buy their client's product, effectively creating a corporate propaganda. Beyond that, the economic system itself allows humanity to be valued with monetary amounts. Capitalism strongly endorses a view similar to Thomas Hobbes, were humans will turn against each other for personal gain and benefit, regardless of the affected party's situation or damage.

But the enemy here is not capitalism, the true enemy is money itself. Money is nothing more than a slip of dyed paper with a phantom value attached to it by the government that backs it. It also gives society something that can be amassed in a vacuum, and never have too much of. Money creates the idea that there is always something more to gain, something more to steal, something more to accomplish. That is the true foe to humanity. The false promise of happiness and power in the form of promisary notes is the clause that drives people to murder one another in order to gain more. What we need now is for humanity to realize the true power the individual possess, and not strive to gain more.

The key note that separates Marxists from Anarchists is the individual. A Marxist will call for humanity to unite for the greater good, while an Anarchist will call for humanity to tap the power within the individual itself. In a vacuum, Anarchy is undoubtedly the best form of government. However, it is not attainable for humanity at this point in time under these circumstances. What must first be done is the creation of a unified world government, not separate states bickering at each other over the draining oil reserves and terrorism. This is a time for humanity to establish free trade with every single nation on the face of the planet, in hopes of revitalizing the world economy.

As it stands, China is a powerhouse of industry, and will continue to grow for decades to come. As it stands, Europe is in decline, both economically and politically. As it stands, America is already at the bottom of the pile. America is the world's largest third world nation, with their highest exports being agricultural products, their foreign affairs dependent on their military, and the government being run by a President who honors the upper crust of society, while damning the rest. The only hope the world has is to establish a world economy with a global currency that effects the entire world. Maybe then the world will see how much our planet is effected by the economy of one nation.

So are we trapped within the machine of capitalism? Yes. But we are also trapped within government itself. The only way humanity will throw off its chains of oppression, economic, political, or otherwise, is for the individual to start working for the individual. Money is a b**** goddess that does nothing but create more problems than it solves. Money is a mere middle man between your goods/services, and the goods/services that you desire. Harness your own power, and work for your own living. Since the world is held by a system of money and government, it is up to them to fix it, and relinquish their own power to the individual citizen. As for democracies, it is up to the voting body to elect representatives that will work for the individual, not the party. A government should work for the betterment of the nation as a whole, and the individual should work for the betterment of the individual. Money should play no part in our daily lives.

[Sallust]

One of the causes of the problems you're describing is the way in the world governments are being run. Far too often, a government is set up that makes things too easy. America at this stage, is clearly a mistake in a nation's proper handling. The people of America are far too free. We have personal freedoms that come close to overpowering the actual powers that the state and national governments have over us. That much freedom, while certainly good for the individual, is devastating to the country as a whole. Our liberty gives us an excuse not to care. "Politics? They don't affect me. But that guy with the big chin, he doesn't look good on the TV screen, so I won't vote for him." The US was set up to give the people the power. But, unfortunately, people tend to make bad decisions with that sort of power. Too few Americans have the education necessary to make a feasible decision when the elections roll around. I don't want to make a huge point of this, but George Bush is an example of the American inability to vote a good leader into power. However; George Bush really isn't much worse than those he opposed. In all likelihood, America would have invaded Iraq even if Gore had been elected. The machine that you're describing is self-imposed. The common people created it, at least in America. Or, rather, our founding fathers gave the common people the ability to make the machine. By now, it's far too late to do much about the governments that intertwine themselves so inextricably from our lives. The problem is, we are both free and captive. Any increase in our freedom would overpower the governments that are trying stabilize the world right now. On the flipside of that, the people of the world also have too little freedom. Anarchy is a possible answer to these problems, but that kind of government (or lack thereof) tends to make a dog-eat-dog system. A good way to escape the machine is beginning to look bleak.

At this point, not much short of an international catastrophe will be able to shake us free of our prison. Fortunately, (and unfortunately) such a cataclysm may not be far off. First of all, the increasing threat of Bird Flu may be enough to get the right people's heads in the right places. Secondly, the gradual running out of oil is going to have severe impacts on modern society. Our cultures are so dependent on oil and fossil fuels that any decrease at all in the ability to gain oil could be disastrous.

It all comes down to what freedoms we want, and how badly we want them...

[perdidochas]

Canadian_Patriot wrote: Not misunderstood Because you understood the nature of my post and though your aren't accepting what i say and maybe even ridiculing me. I at least had to try and in the end isn't that what really counts?

It frustrates me to see everything go to crap every single day the world is worse off then what it was the day before.

I think the problem is that you've had it too good for too long. My world gets better every day. I have all the liberty that anybody could ask for. I can raise my children with peace, and not have to worry about pissing off the government and being jailed for life. Life in the U.S. is good.

[perdidochas]

Canadian_Patriot wrote: sure were prosperous but what about the other 80 or so percent living in impoverished conditions. We are useless feeders that serve one purpose and that is to consume everything we can that is not neccisary. that is what is wrong while i sit here and type this message on the computer somebody is starving because the slave labour wages we pay foreingers to manufacture our goods is not enough to put food on the table. Just so we can enjoy our selves and live like glutonous kings.

Bull. The foreigners we pay to make our goods would be starving or living by barely substinence farming if it weren't for us. They are not starving from being slave labor. Yes, we too often live like gluttonous kings, but it's not at the expense of others. If I don't eat today by choice, that food isn't going to miraculously appear in the third world....

[LostSoul3412]

Sallust wrote: One of the causes of the problems you're describing is the way in the world governments are being run.... America at this stage, is clearly a mistake in a nation's proper handling.

I would agree.

Sallust wrote: The people of America are far too free. We have personal freedoms that come close to overpowering the actual powers that the state and national governments have over us. That much freedom, while certainly good for the individual, is devastating to the country as a whole. Our liberty gives us an excuse not to care.

While I can understand and respect where you're coming from, I am overly inclined to disagree. No individual can ever be "too free". Saying that our rights overshadow the rights of the government is exactly what I am trying to address. The government should have no rights. The government is not a person, it is a collective. Beyond that, the American government is a collective of people representing their respective political parties, not what is best for the nation as a whole. The way I see it, the government should only protect our rights (if one is actually necessary), not determine what our rights are. It should protect the individual, not restrict it.

Sallust wrote: The US was set up to give the people the power. But, unfortunately, people tend to make bad decisions with that sort of power. Too few Americans have the education necessary to make a feasible decision when the elections roll around.

I think that the individual automatically has power, and any government can only work to take them away. On the issue of education, the debate of utilitarianism, and how it is damaging our education system, is a different issue for a different day.

Sallust wrote: I don't want to make a huge point of this, but George Bush is an example of the American inability to vote a good leader into power.

I agree, 100%.

Sallust wrote: However; George Bush really isn't much worse than those he opposed. In all likelihood, America would have invaded Iraq even if Gore had been elected.

Perhaps, but alternate history is no basis for argument.

Sallust wrote: The machine that you're describing is self-imposed. The common people created it, at least in America. Or, rather, our founding fathers gave the common people the ability to make the machine.

I would say that in today's society the machine is self-imposed, but when the concept of money was first invented, that was a governmental decision. Perhaps we'll never know.

Sallust wrote: By now, it's far too late to do much about the governments that intertwine themselves so inextricably from our lives.

It is never too late to act. The individual is the only one who can dictate their own life.

Sallust wrote: The problem is, we are both free and captive. Any increase in our freedom would overpower the governments that are trying stabilize the world right now. On the flipside of that, the people of the world also have too little freedom. Anarchy is a possible answer to these problems, but that kind of government (or lack thereof) tends to make a dog-eat-dog system. A good way to escape the machine is beginning to look bleak.

I would say that the problem is that we are not free. While we may have liberties in America that are not found else where, we are still all bound to the dollar that makes everyday decisions for us. Clothes, food, shelter, luxuries, everything is chained to the size of our wallets. As far as Anarchy creating a "dog-eat-dog system", the only reason that people have any reason to attack each other is for money. It gives the people something to gain by taking from their fellow citizen. Eliminate money, and you'll eliminate the reason for those attacks.

Sallust wrote: It all comes down to what freedoms we want, and how badly we want them...

Again, I agree with your statement, but for a different reason. I agree that the individual can attain any freedom, any right, any privilege that it desires, all that it needs is the will to do so. The only thing that is stopping us from experiencing all of our rights is our apathy and laziness to actually fight for them. Controversy is the secret ingredient for freedom. All we need is a little motivation.

Barring that, however, I fear we must place our trust in our governments to make the right choices and stop running themselves as rulers of their nations, and realize that the people are the only ones that rule themselves. The machine in money itself. As soon as governments can unite and abolish the chains, the sooner humanity will be free.