Political Crossfire Forums

Nemesis · Joined: 15 Mar 2006 Posts: 15

Killing seals is bad yet killing children is fine?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/03/15/iraq.main/index.html

I do not agree with the hunt myself and am not really here to defend it. My only point is there are far worse things happening around the world to our fellow humans. Just trying to put things into perspective.

StrangerWitCandy · Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 5739 Location: Fairfax, VA

Nemesis wrote: Killing seals is bad yet killing children is fine?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/03/15/iraq.main/index.html

I do not agree with the hunt myself and am not really here to defend it. My only point is there are far worse things happening around the world to our fellow humans. Just trying to put things into perspective.

Yes there are relatively worse things happening in the world. But why does that need to take away from this thread about clubbing baby seals? There are other threads for other topics. I don't think defending the lives of baby seals should indicate "killing children is fine." that logic just doesn't make sense

Nemesis · Joined: 15 Mar 2006 Posts: 15

ikari wrote: Well I'm no seal clubber, and I suppose the damage to the skin is a logical excuse. I just don't see how much damage one would do if they just shot them in the head instead of clubbing.

Bullets cost money. Clubs are cheap. I would think a club would cause more damage to the skin then a small caliber bullet would. But like you, I am not a seal clubber so I dont know for sure.

Carly · Joined: 15 Mar 2006 Posts: 65 Location: Toronto

ikari wrote: Well I'm no seal clubber, and I suppose the damage to the skin is a logical excuse. I just don't see how much damage one would do if they just shot them in the head instead of clubbing.

Bullets do massive amounts of damage to the skin, just from the sheer force.

Carly · Joined: 15 Mar 2006 Posts: 65 Location: Toronto

Nemesis wrote: ikari wrote: Well I'm no seal clubber, and I suppose the damage to the skin is a logical excuse. I just don't see how much damage one would do if they just shot them in the head instead of clubbing.

Bullets cost money. Clubs are cheap. I would think a club would cause more damage to the skin then a small caliber bullet would. But like you, I am not a seal clubber so I dont know for sure.

The thing is that they barely even club them, again, to preserve their pelts.

A huge outcry against the seal hunt is that nearly 80% of the seals are skinned alive. And that's just what they caught on tape. I'm sure in reality, almost all seals are skinned alive.

Nemesis · Joined: 15 Mar 2006 Posts: 15

StrangerWitCandy wrote: Nemesis wrote: Killing seals is bad yet killing children is fine?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/03/15/iraq.main/index.html

I do not agree with the hunt myself and am not really here to defend it. My only point is there are far worse things happening around the world to our fellow humans. Just trying to put things into perspective.

Yes there are relatively worse things happening in the world. But why does that need to take away from this thread about clubbing baby seals? There are other threads for other topics. I don't think defending the lives of baby seals should indicate "killing children is fine." that logic just doesn't make sense

Like I said in the original post. It was simply to put things into perspective. There are atrocities taking place all over the world. Only reason we are even talking about seals is because they are cute.

To me it is like an anti-fur activist complaining about cruelty while wearing leather shoes. Or a tree hugger driving their 1970's Volkswagen van.

Carly · Joined: 15 Mar 2006 Posts: 65 Location: Toronto

Nemesis wrote: Killing seals is bad yet killing children is fine?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/03/15/iraq.main/index.html

I do not agree with the hunt myself and am not really here to defend it. My only point is there are far worse things happening around the world to our fellow humans. Just trying to put things into perspective.

Start a thread on that, then.

This one is about a disqusting hunt that will take place in less than 2 weeks.

Trajan · Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 6584 Location: SE PA

Infinite911911 wrote: thefranzkafkafront wrote: Seals may look fluffy, they however lack rights.

:gdgf: How does a seal lack rights? Does it not tremble before violence? Was it not born with the same rights to life as you were? All things fear death and all things love life thefranzkafkafront. See yourself in others for a change. Then whom can you hurt? What harm can you do?

Animals have no natural rights.

Carly · Joined: 15 Mar 2006 Posts: 65 Location: Toronto

Nemesis wrote: StrangerWitCandy wrote: Nemesis wrote: Killing seals is bad yet killing children is fine?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/03/15/iraq.main/index.html

I do not agree with the hunt myself and am not really here to defend it. My only point is there are far worse things happening around the world to our fellow humans. Just trying to put things into perspective.

Yes there are relatively worse things happening in the world. But why does that need to take away from this thread about clubbing baby seals? There are other threads for other topics. I don't think defending the lives of baby seals should indicate "killing children is fine." that logic just doesn't make sense

Like I said in the original post. It was simply to put things into perspective. There are atrocities taking place all over the world. Only reason we are even talking about seals is because they are cute.

To me it is like an anti-fur activist complaining about cruelty while wearing leather shoes. Or a tree hugger driving their 1970's Volkswagen van.

It's not at all to put things in perspective.

All you're doing is highjacking this thread that deserves attention.

And it's not cause they are cute. It's a horrific culture in Canada that needs to end, and since seals are 70+ percent body fat to survive in their frigid environment, they can't even run away from their predators.

Why don't you start a thread about some other atrocity?

Nemesis · Joined: 15 Mar 2006 Posts: 15

Carly wrote: Nemesis wrote: ikari wrote: Well I'm no seal clubber, and I suppose the damage to the skin is a logical excuse. I just don't see how much damage one would do if they just shot them in the head instead of clubbing.

Bullets cost money. Clubs are cheap. I would think a club would cause more damage to the skin then a small caliber bullet would. But like you, I am not a seal clubber so I dont know for sure.

The thing is that they barely even club them, again, to preserve their pelts.

A huge outcry against the seal hunt is that nearly 80% of the seals are skinned alive. And that's just what they caught on tape. I'm sure in reality, almost all seals are skinned alive.

Kinda like cooking that wonderful lobster we all enjoy so much? They are boiled alive. Should we ban that as well?

Well actually I hate seafood. Maybe it should be banned.

Gremlin · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 7944 Location: On the Run.

Humans are the most viscous and vile creatures that walk this planet today.
This is just another disgusting act so that a selfish rich bastard can feel good about themselves with a carcass rapped around them.

Maybe someday Humans can stop S#!tting where they eat.

StrangerWitCandy · Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 5739 Location: Fairfax, VA

Nemesis wrote: ikari wrote: Well I'm no seal clubber, and I suppose the damage to the skin is a logical excuse. I just don't see how much damage one would do if they just shot them in the head instead of clubbing.

Bullets cost money. Clubs are cheap. I would think a club would cause more damage to the skin then a small caliber bullet would. But like you, I am not a seal clubber so I dont know for sure.

how expensive are bullets anyway? i'm sure with the extra money they make from selling the skin of a baby seal they could afford a bullet... but regardless they should leave the poor things alone.

Carly · Joined: 15 Mar 2006 Posts: 65 Location: Toronto

Nemesis wrote: Carly wrote: Nemesis wrote: ikari wrote: Well I'm no seal clubber, and I suppose the damage to the skin is a logical excuse. I just don't see how much damage one would do if they just shot them in the head instead of clubbing.

Bullets cost money. Clubs are cheap. I would think a club would cause more damage to the skin then a small caliber bullet would. But like you, I am not a seal clubber so I dont know for sure.

The thing is that they barely even club them, again, to preserve their pelts.

A huge outcry against the seal hunt is that nearly 80% of the seals are skinned alive. And that's just what they caught on tape. I'm sure in reality, almost all seals are skinned alive.

Kinda like cooking that wonderful lobster we all enjoy so much? They are boiled alive. Should we ban that as well?

Well actually I hate seafood. Maybe it should be banned.

I've never been into lobster myself, but like I said before, I have been boycotting the seafood industry for a year now.

Kumar · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 16667 Location: Lisbon

Nemesis wrote: Carly wrote: Nemesis wrote: ikari wrote: Well I'm no seal clubber, and I suppose the damage to the skin is a logical excuse. I just don't see how much damage one would do if they just shot them in the head instead of clubbing.

Bullets cost money. Clubs are cheap. I would think a club would cause more damage to the skin then a small caliber bullet would. But like you, I am not a seal clubber so I dont know for sure.

The thing is that they barely even club them, again, to preserve their pelts.

A huge outcry against the seal hunt is that nearly 80% of the seals are skinned alive. And that's just what they caught on tape. I'm sure in reality, almost all seals are skinned alive.

Kinda like cooking that wonderful lobster we all enjoy so much? They are boiled alive. Should we ban that as well?

Well actually I hate seafood. Maybe it should be banned.
You do raise a good point. One could also look at how leather is obtained from cattle, among many other things.

StrangerWitCandy · Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 5739 Location: Fairfax, VA

Nemesis wrote: StrangerWitCandy wrote: Nemesis wrote: Killing seals is bad yet killing children is fine?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/03/15/iraq.main/index.html

I do not agree with the hunt myself and am not really here to defend it. My only point is there are far worse things happening around the world to our fellow humans. Just trying to put things into perspective.

Yes there are relatively worse things happening in the world. But why does that need to take away from this thread about clubbing baby seals? There are other threads for other topics. I don't think defending the lives of baby seals should indicate "killing children is fine." that logic just doesn't make sense

Like I said in the original post. It was simply to put things into perspective. There are atrocities taking place all over the world. Only reason we are even talking about seals is because they are cute.

To me it is like an anti-fur activist complaining about cruelty while wearing leather shoes. Or a tree hugger driving their 1970's Volkswagen van.

its not true. i don't think elephants are cute but they shouldn't be killed for their ivory. its not about being cute its about killing for shallow and trivial reasons. you can choose to ignore it because there are worse things going on in the world, but some people have the capacity to care about both

StrangerWitCandy · Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 5739 Location: Fairfax, VA

Rohit wrote: Nemesis wrote: Carly wrote: Nemesis wrote: ikari wrote: Well I'm no seal clubber, and I suppose the damage to the skin is a logical excuse. I just don't see how much damage one would do if they just shot them in the head instead of clubbing.

Bullets cost money. Clubs are cheap. I would think a club would cause more damage to the skin then a small caliber bullet would. But like you, I am not a seal clubber so I dont know for sure.

The thing is that they barely even club them, again, to preserve their pelts.

A huge outcry against the seal hunt is that nearly 80% of the seals are skinned alive. And that's just what they caught on tape. I'm sure in reality, almost all seals are skinned alive.

Kinda like cooking that wonderful lobster we all enjoy so much? They are boiled alive. Should we ban that as well?

Well actually I hate seafood. Maybe it should be banned.
You do raise a good point. One could also look at how leather is obtained from cattle, among many other things.

I personally don't eat seafood and think its cruel to boil something alive, yes. But thats my opinion. And to kill a cow just for its leather is just as bad as killing a seal just for its skin IMO. if you kill it for its meat first and then use the skin as leather that is different because you are still utilizing the animal and not using it for solely shallow reasons. now if you're out in the wilderness thats one thing but thats not what we're talking about here. but regardless all animals should be treated decently while they are living. that said i'm a vegetarian.

Kumar · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 16667 Location: Lisbon

It's fine to oppose the seal hunt, but don't descend into the self-loathing directed toward your own species that seems to be all the rage these days. Don't hate yourself because you are more evolutionarily developed. Appreciate it.

tectonic realism · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 34

HEATHER AND PAUL MCCARTNEY TO VISIT DEATH-SENTENCED CANADIAN SEAL PUPS - 27.02.2006

CALL FOR BAN ON BRUTAL SLAUGHTER

Heather and Paul McCartney will visit the harp seal nursery on the ice floes off Canada’s East Coast, on 3 & 4 March 2006, to observe beautiful, pure white newborn harp seal pups, sentenced to death by the Canadian seal hunt.

Only weeks after their visit many of these same animals will be clubbed to death as part of the annual slaughter, the largest marine mammal hunt on the planet.

Heather and Paul will be calling on the new Canadian Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, to stop this brutal commercial hunt.

The trip will highlight the work of UK campaign group Respect for Animals, which is calling on the UK government to ban the import of all seal products into the UK, and the Humane Society International.

Over the last three years almost one million seals have been slaughtered, 97% of them under three months of age, most of them only a few weeks old. A 2001 independent veterinarian report concluded that 42% of seals examined were likely still conscious when skinned. The pups’ skins are used in the fashion industry.

The hunt is now killing as many seal pups as it did in the 1950s and 1960s when the harp seal population was reduced by as much as two thirds. Worldwide public horror at the hunt and Canadian fish boycotts brought about a EU implemented ban on ‘whitecoat’ (newborn seal) products. Today, sealers kill pups as soon as they have moulted – a process that starts at 12 days old – and these slightly older seal skins can and are legally imported into the EU (including the UK).

• A recent opinion poll found that 79% of UK residents believe the hunt should be stopped. And, 73% think there should be a ban on seal products into Britain.

• An Early Day Motion (EDM 237) calling on the UK government ‘to prohibit the import of all seal products into the UK’, has been signed by 183 Members of Parliament (as at 20.2.06)

• Several countries have recently initiated actions to ban the import of seal products, including: Italy, Belgium, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Greenland, Mexico. A ban has been in place since 1972 in US.

• A 2001 veterinary report concluded that the hunt results in ‘considerable and unacceptable suffering’

source link:
http://www.paulmccartney.com/main.php

updated article IQALUIT, Nunavut March 13,2006

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=380af201-da8a-45f3-80ff-22816ab0d3b1&k=43181

Nemesis · Joined: 15 Mar 2006 Posts: 15

Carly wrote: Nemesis wrote: StrangerWitCandy wrote: Nemesis wrote: Killing seals is bad yet killing children is fine?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/03/15/iraq.main/index.html

I do not agree with the hunt myself and am not really here to defend it. My only point is there are far worse things happening around the world to our fellow humans. Just trying to put things into perspective.

Yes there are relatively worse things happening in the world. But why does that need to take away from this thread about clubbing baby seals? There are other threads for other topics. I don't think defending the lives of baby seals should indicate "killing children is fine." that logic just doesn't make sense

Like I said in the original post. It was simply to put things into perspective. There are atrocities taking place all over the world. Only reason we are even talking about seals is because they are cute.

To me it is like an anti-fur activist complaining about cruelty while wearing leather shoes. Or a tree hugger driving their 1970's Volkswagen van.

It's not at all to put things in perspective.

All you're doing is highjacking this thread that deserves attention.

And it's not cause they are cute. It's a horrific culture in Canada that needs to end, and since seals are 70+ percent body fat to survive in their frigid environment, they can't even run away from their predators.

Why don't you start a thread about some other atrocity?

See you are getting over emotional. Fact is people kill animals everyday. This is no more horrific than any other animal killing. Far as I know seals are not an endangered species. It is no different then any other hunt. I am not hijacking any thread.

You are certainly within your right to try to put an end to such a barbaric hunt. But until it is deemed illegal there is nothing wrong with it.

For what its worth I give this hunt 10 years max. Likely will end long before that. People are becoming more and more aware.

Kumar · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 16667 Location: Lisbon

StrangerWitCandy wrote: Rohit wrote: Nemesis wrote: Carly wrote: Nemesis wrote: ikari wrote: Well I'm no seal clubber, and I suppose the damage to the skin is a logical excuse. I just don't see how much damage one would do if they just shot them in the head instead of clubbing.

Bullets cost money. Clubs are cheap. I would think a club would cause more damage to the skin then a small caliber bullet would. But like you, I am not a seal clubber so I dont know for sure.

The thing is that they barely even club them, again, to preserve their pelts.

A huge outcry against the seal hunt is that nearly 80% of the seals are skinned alive. And that's just what they caught on tape. I'm sure in reality, almost all seals are skinned alive.

Kinda like cooking that wonderful lobster we all enjoy so much? They are boiled alive. Should we ban that as well?

Well actually I hate seafood. Maybe it should be banned.
You do raise a good point. One could also look at how leather is obtained from cattle, among many other things.

I personally don't eat seafood and think its cruel to boil something alive, yes. But thats my opinion. And to kill a cow just for its leather is just as bad as killing a seal just for its skin IMO. if you kill it for its meat first and then use the skin as leather that is different because you are still utilizing the animal and not using it for solely shallow reasons. now if you're out in the wilderness thats one thing but thats not what we're talking about here. but regardless all animals should be treated decently while they are living. that said i'm a vegetarian.
It's good that you are consistent. I think it's just a tad difficult to take seriously those who express outrage over this and at the same time go to a restaurant tonight and pick out a lobster for the main course. That then raises the question as to why these people express outrage in the first place. Maybe because they are unaware of how that _____ is prepared? Or maybe it's just the popular thing to do.