Political Crossfire Forums

The Central Scrutinizer · Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:42 am Post subject:

joe christian wrote: Ek0nomik wrote: joe christian wrote: Abortion in the US is a secular affair, permitted, condoned and practiced on a secular basis. No abortion clinics are affiliated or associated with any Christian medical institutions. Secularism is atheistic, therefore all US abortionists are atheists and most of their victims are Christian women.

Wait, let me get this straight. You believe all United States abortionists are Atheists?

A few have been identified as atheistic Jews. The rest are just secular feminists and male atheists.

Anyone know how to say "killer of children" in German? I bet someone could photoshop that in there.

Quote:
Just because men and women want to be prostitutes, abortionists or slave traders doesn't give them the right to buy and sell either their bodies, their souls or their fetuses.

Except yes, yes it does, because people have the right to do what they want with their own bodies. Shocking, isn't it?

---

Let's get back to the basics. You want to have the names, religions, and political affiliations of all abortion providers so that you can prove that the children of god-fearing, religious women are being aborted by godless, democratic doctors. Let me paint as clear a picture as I can: Those Christian, Jewish, and Muslim women chose of their own free will to get an abortion in the first place. Free will, of which authentic Christian faith is quite fond of, was exercised by these women. No atheist doctor strapped them to a gurney and extracted their fetuses with an olive fork and a Dirt Devil. Your question should not be, "who is aborting these children and why?" but "why would religious people, with an ostensible support for the sanctity of every blastocyst, be getting abortions in the first place?"

Ok, I'm done. You can uncover your eyes and unplug your ears. Enjoy your illusions. I hope they make you happy.

sgtshortness · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 82

Quote: Give their parents education equity vouchers so they can attend either a private secular or parochial school of their choice instead of forcing them into atheistic and secular totalitarian indoctrination systems.

We never forced them. You have a choice whether or not to go there.

Quote: Quote: We're giving them a free education?

A poor and inadequate education, and at most taxpayers involuntary expense.

I don't see how it's poor and inadequate. Are you trying to say that it's inadequate because it's secular? And we do give them a free education, but d'ya know what? They chose to go there.

Quote: Quote: What do you think private schools are for?

Certainly not only for the superior education of rich kids alone whose parents promote public schools for the purpose of giving the poor inferior and inadequate educations.

Public schools are not for the purpose of giving the poor inferior and inadequate education, it's for giving them a free education. They don't want it? Fine. They don't have to have it.

Quote: Quote: If you want religion in your schools, that's where to do it.
That is the typical atheistic and secular POV which is currently promolgated by the white wing of the anti-Christian Democratic Party which still enslaves black Americans in atheistic and secular public schools.

Typical? Yes. So what? Secular? Yes. But government is should not be supporting religion in any way. So says... the constitution!

first amendment wrote: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Yay.. promulgated by the Democratic party. So what. White wing? Maybe it's dominated by white people because most people in the country are white. Enslaving them in the schools? Well.. THEIR CHOICE TO GO TO THE SCHOOL.

Quote: Quote: The reason private schools are not government-funded is because the government cannot support a religion. The government-funded public schools have certain qualifications, e.g. needing 180 days of school per year, class requirements, etc. Black American children have no need of religion in school any more than white American children or any other child of any race or nationality.

Obviously, you are speaking for the Democratic Party.

Obviously, he's speaking for the Constitution of the United States of America, most specifically the first amendment.

[quote] Quote: Now you're implying that the religious white Republicans are going to liberate black American children from this oppression of a free education?[/quote

Somebody has to liberate white and black American Christian schoolchildren and their parents from the oppressive totalitarian system of unfree secular and atheistic indoctrination which you mistakenly call "free education,'' but is more of a system of government slave control than a free system of higher education.

Psst... how are they being oppressed, unfreed, indoctrinated (by secularists), and enslaved when their parents make them go there?

joe christian · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 282

The Central Scrutinizer wrote: joe christian wrote: Just because men and women want to be prostitutes, abortionists or slave traders doesn't give them the right to buy and sell either their bodies, their souls or their fetuses.

Except yes, yes it does, because people have the right to do what they want with their own bodies. Shocking, isn't it?
What you say is nonsense and not shocking at all since it is the general atheistic and secular propaganda of the day and reflects your own mis-education in atheistic and secular public schools.

Quote: You want to have the names, religions, and political affiliations of all abortion providers so that you can prove that the children of god-fearing, religious women are being aborted by godless, democratic doctors. Let me paint as clear a picture as I can: Those Christian, Jewish, and Muslim women chose of their own free will to get an abortion in the first place.
Yes, and that is why women, male abortionists/politicians and male judges on the SCOTUS alone are responsible for the current American holocaust in which over 45 million American lives have been aborted by nazi butchers. Judeo-Christian American men will not be held accountable. Especially those in the US Armed Forces.

Quote: Free will, of which authentic Christian faith is quite fond of, was exercised by these women.
Free will is a philosophical-psychological-religious-secular illusion since mankind is obviously bound by physical, natural, social, political and religious laws. The exercise of free will beyond lawful bounds inexorably results in death.

Quote: Your question should not be, "who is aborting these children and why?" but "why would religious people, with an ostensible support for the sanctity of every blastocyst, be getting abortions in the first place?"
My question remains the same. What is the racial and religious identity of all abortionists in the US? At the present time, all we know is that the majority of them operate under the aegis of atheistic and secular corporations. If you don't want to identify abortionists by race and religion, we will just have to consider them all atheists, humanists, feminists and secularists, in our argument that none are Christian.

You may ask whatever questions you choose. I ask those I choose. Are you pro-choice or not? It seems you are rather bigoted and sexist in terms of who you grant choice to.

Prole · Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 2259 Location: Edinburgh

Name one abortion center that affiliates themselves with atheism, joe christian. ONE.

The Central Scrutinizer · Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:42 am Post subject:

joe christian wrote: The Central Scrutinizer wrote: joe christian wrote: Just because men and women want to be prostitutes, abortionists or slave traders doesn't give them the right to buy and sell either their bodies, their souls or their fetuses.

Except yes, yes it does, because people have the right to do what they want with their own bodies. Shocking, isn't it?
What you say is nonsense and not shocking at all since it is the general atheistic and secular propaganda of the day and reflects your own mis-education in atheistic and secular public schools.

Why is it nonsense? If anything the "atheistic and secular public schools" teach kids quite the opposite. Don't do drugs, don't have sex, don't hurt others, don't wear short skirts, pledge allegience to the flag: never once in my public education was I told, "people have the right to do what they want with their own bodies." I came to that conclusion on my own. It was is my moral and philosophical belief.

Can you give me a reason why people should not own their own bodies?

joe christian wrote: Quote: You want to have the names, religions, and political affiliations of all abortion providers so that you can prove that the children of god-fearing, religious women are being aborted by godless, democratic doctors. Let me paint as clear a picture as I can: Those Christian, Jewish, and Muslim women chose of their own free will to get an abortion in the first place.
Yes, and that is why women, male abortionists/politicians and male judges on the SCOTUS alone are responsible for the current American holocaust in which over 45 million American lives have been aborted by nazi butchers. Judeo-Christian American men will not be held accountable. Especially those in the US Armed Forces.

Way to blow right past my argument. Women make their own choice to get an abortion. Abortionists don't force themselves on anyone. Roe v. Wade does not call for mandatory abortions. Pro-choice politicians do not track down pregnant women and forcibly abort them. Women go to the doctor of their own choice, ask for an abortion of their own choice, and abort their child of their own choice. Women were choosing to get abortions before Roe v. Wade. The SCOTUS is not responsible. Politicians are not responsible. The women who went to the doctors to get those abortions are responsible. I know it's hard to believe that people are responsible for their own actions, but I like to believe that they are.

Secondly, what's with your obsession with exonerating the "white Judeo-Christian American" male of all guilt? What about non-white Judeo-Christian American men? Or immigrants? Are they as culpable for abortion as the ones you blame specifically? And what makes you think that the man plays no part in a woman choosing to have an abortion? I would bet my bottom dollar that somewhere in this country, today, a white Judeo-Christian American man is telling his sweetheart that he's not ready to be a daddy.

joe christian wrote: Quote: Free will, of which authentic Christian faith is quite fond of, was exercised by these women.

Free will is a philosophical-psychological-religious-secular illusion since mankind is obviously bound by physical, natural, social, political and religious laws. The exercise of free will beyond lawful bounds inexorably results in death.

Then that is the result of your choice. The only laws that actually stop you from doing anything are the laws of physics. All other laws are punitive. They deter you with the threat of punishment and punish you if you are caught, but they do not stop you from doing something, and hence do not impede the exercise of free will. No law, physical, natural, social, political, or religious, forced a woman to get an abortion. Ultimately, the choice was her own to terminate the pregnancy.

joe christian wrote: Quote: Your question should not be, "who is aborting these children and why?" but "why would religious people, with an ostensible support for the sanctity of every blastocyst, be getting abortions in the first place?"

My question remains the same. What is the racial and religious identity of all abortionists in the US? At the present time, all we know is that the majority of them operate under the aegis of atheistic and secular corporations. If you don't want to identify abortionists by race and religion, we will just have to consider them all atheists, humanists, feminists and secularists, in our argument that none are Christian.

Ok, then let me simplify. It doesn't matter who is performing the abortions, period. Yes, they are culpable for what they have done because they choose to provide abortions. However, without women choosing to come to them to get abortions, they would never have provided a single one. Do you see why your question is so pointless? Even if all abortionists were vehemently anti-Christian atheists, every nominally Christian woman that walks through their doors did so of her own free will.

joe christian wrote: You may ask whatever questions you choose. I ask those I choose. Are you pro-choice or not? It seems you are rather bigoted and sexist in terms of who you grant choice to.

Bigoted and sexist? Explain yourself.

sgtshortness · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 82

joe christian wrote:
What you say is nonsense and not shocking at all since it is the general atheistic and secular propaganda of the day and reflects your own mis-education in atheistic and secular public schools.

Logical fallacy: Argumentum ad Hominem. (It's wrong becuase it's atheistic)

Quote:
Yes, and that is why women, male abortionists/politicians and male judges on the SCOTUS alone are responsible for the current American holocaust in which over 45 million American lives have been aborted by nazi butchers. Judeo-Christian American men will not be held accountable. Especially those in the US Armed Forces.

I wonder why you brought up the US Armed Forces... it's quite irrelevant. Yes, they are responsible for the abortions. Your point?

Quote: Free will is a philosophical-psychological-religious-secular illusion since mankind is obviously bound by physical, natural, social, political and religious laws. The exercise of free will beyond lawful bounds inexorably results in death.

We mean free will to the point of being able to choose whether or not to get an abortion.

Quote:
My question remains the same. What is the racial and religious identity of all abortionists in the US? At the present time, all we know is that the majority of them operate under the aegis of atheistic and secular corporations. If you don't want to identify abortionists by race and religion, we will just have to consider them all atheists, humanists, feminists and secularists, in our argument that none are Christian.

You may ask whatever questions you choose. I ask those I choose. Are you pro-choice or not? It seems you are rather bigoted and sexist in terms of who you grant choice to.

I still don't get why it is significant that the majority of abortion practitioners are all/mostly atheists, humjanists, feminists, or secularists.

Prole · Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 2259 Location: Edinburgh

[quote"sgtshortness"]I still don't get why it is significant that the majority of abortion practitioners are all/mostly atheists, humjanists, feminists, or secularists.[/quote]
The majority of abortion practitioners and receivers in the US are Christian.

But I think that joe christian's opposition to them is that all abortion practitioners are actually voodoo witchdoctors, who prey on unsuspecting pregnant women who come to abortion clinics of their own free will. Then the doctors use their magical amulets to force those women into aborting fetuses, who somehow have have a religious belief system, despite only having possessed sensory perception for more than a few weeks, and even then only in the case of D and E abortions. Then the abortionists adorn themselves with pig's blood, dance around a fire and sing praise to their pagan ancestors. While smoking marijuana. And listening to Kenny G.

How much more evil can you get?

The Central Scrutinizer · Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:36 pm Post subject:

Prole wrote: How much more evil can you get?

joe christian · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 282

Prole wrote: Name one abortion center that affiliates themselves with atheism, joe christian. ONE.
Since none are affiliated or associated with any Jewish or Christian medical centers they are all atheistic and secular businesses which violate the 10th Commandment. That's why reputable medical doctors regard commercial abortionists as the scum of the medical profession.

joe christian · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 282

The Central Scrutinizer wrote: joe christian wrote: What you say is nonsense and not shocking at all since it is the general atheistic and secular propaganda of the day and reflects your own mis-education in atheistic and secular public schools.

Why is it nonsense? If anything the "atheistic and secular public schools" teach kids quite the opposite. Don't do drugs, don't have sex, don't hurt others, don't wear short skirts, pledge allegience to the flag: never once in my public education was I told, "people have the right to do what they want with their own bodies." I came to that conclusion on my own. It was is my moral and philosophical belief.
Obviously, your atheistic and secular education did you no good then.

Quote: Can you give me a reason why people should not own their own bodies?
Sure. Human beings are not property and cannot sell their bodies.

Quote: Women make their own choice to get an abortion. Abortionists don't force themselves on anyone.
Abortionists intrude into the private lives of married people and their families just like adulterers, rapists and other house-breaking thieves do.

Quote: Roe v. Wade does not call for mandatory abortions. Pro-choice politicians do not track down pregnant women and forcibly abort them. Women go to the doctor of their own choice, ask for an abortion of their own choice, and abort their child of their own choice.
Doctor's don't have the right to kill the offspring of married men and woman without the fully informed consent of both parents. Doctors who do are called national secular (nazi) abortionists, and the justices who allow it are called national secular (nazi) judges.

Quote: The SCOTUS is not responsible.
Of course it is, just like it was responsible for black slavery before the Civil War, and was also responsible for segregation until the Civil Rights Act. The blood of 45 million aborted American babies is on their heads.

Quote: Politicians are not responsible.
Of course the atheistic and secular politicians who win elections by championing abortion rights for women are responsible. The blood of 45 million aborted American babies is on their heads.

Quote: The women who went to the doctors to get those abortions are responsible.
No they are not. They are just like sheep led to the slaughter by politicians in sheep's clothing and humanist judges in black robes. Why blame millions of women for the American Abortion Holocaust when less than 750 abortion chambers are still in operation and the SCOTUS is still functioning.

Quote: I know it's hard to believe that people are responsible for their own actions, but I like to believe that they are.
You don't blame women for getting raped, do you? I don't blame women for being victimized by atheistic and secular abortion pushers.

Quote: Secondly, what's with your obsession with exonerating the "white Judeo-Christian American" male of all guilt? What about non-white Judeo-Christian American men?
I didn't say anything about "white" JC American men since black and Hispanic JC Americans are also fighting for JC in Iraq and the 10 Commandments apply to all men equally.

Quote: Or immigrants? Are they as culpable for abortion as the ones you blame specifically?
Nope. Can't blame the immigrants for the American Abortion Holocaust.

Quote: And what makes you think that the man plays no part in a woman choosing to have an abortion?
He has no legal right to. You know what they say. "The only man who has a choice in abortion is the male abortionist." He can quit in disgust anytime, like Bernard Nathanson did.

Quote: I would bet my bottom dollar that somewhere in this country, today, a white Judeo-Christian American man is telling his sweetheart that he's not ready to be a daddy.
Rather cynical of you if a dollar is all you are willing to bet.

Quote: The only laws that actually stop you from doing anything are the laws of physics. All other laws are punitive.
The laws of physics can be rather punitive also especially if one wants to jump off the roof.

Quote: No law, physical, natural, social, political, or religious, forced a woman to get an abortion.
Most women get abortions because of the laws of economics, career concerns plus social and marital status.

Quote: Ultimately, the choice was her own to terminate the pregnancy.
The choice was the commercial abortionists also.

Quote: It doesn't matter who is performing the abortions, period.
It doesn't matter to you, period. It matters to me, since I don't want only atheists and secularists blamed for the American Abortion Holocaust, but would like to see some religious folk implicated, if you are able to prove that there are any Christian abortionists. I know of three Jewish abortionists who killed Christian babies and of whom only one repented.

Quote: Yes, they are culpable for what they have done because they choose to provide abortions.
Just like the nazis chose to provide gas chambers for Jews.

Quote: However, without women choosing to come to them to get abortions, they would never have provided a single one.
Without the SS choosing to round up the Jews, and IG Farben choosing to manufacture the gas, the nazis might never have gassed Jews in the concentration camps.

Quote: Do you see why your question is so pointless?
The question is not pointless at all since some people say that some of the nazis were Christians. I want to know if some of the abortionists are also. What's wrong with someone being identified according to their religion? The US Army does it all the time when they bury servicemen.

Quote: Even if all abortionists were vehemently anti-Christian atheists, every nominally Christian woman that walks through their doors did so of her own free will.
That's not the point since it is the husband's will and the abortionists religion which RAPID is concerned with.

joe christian wrote: You may ask whatever questions you choose. I ask those I choose. Are you pro-choice or not? It seems you are rather bigoted and sexist in terms of who you grant choice to.
Quote: Bigoted and sexist? Explain yourself.
You don't seem to want to give American men any choice whether the US Abortion Holocaust shall continue as it is or not. All you go on harping about is the woman's right to choose whether to get her husband's kid aborted whether he likes it or not.

That's a sexist and bigoted POV.

joe christian · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 282

sgtshortness wrote: I still don't get why it is significant that the majority of abortion practitioners are all/mostly atheists, humjanists, feminists, or secularists.
It is important to identify those in society who are mainly responsible for the American Abortion Holocaust so that when reparations are demanded from those responsible for the savage butchery and slaughter of innocent Judeo-Christian babies in the US, we know precisely what religious or socio-political groups they were associated with.

We know that the Planned Parenthood Federation and NARAL are atheistic and feminist non-profit secular corporations, and that most, if not all abortion chambers are operated on an atheistic and secular basis with no identifiable religious affiliation other than a few liberal clerics who have been identified as attending prayer meetings with the above corporations.

We also know that most pro-abortionists who vote are members of the same Democratic Party which fought to uphold slavery during the Civil War.

joe christian · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 282

Prole wrote: [quote"sgtshortness"]I still don't get why it is significant that the majority of abortion practitioners are all/mostly atheists, humjanists, feminists, or secularists.
Quote: The majority of abortion practitioners and receivers in the US are Christian.
That's an obvious half-lie since no abortion provider has ever been identified as a practicing member of any Christian sect. Only atheistists and secularists perform abortions on Christian women, and only without the fully informed consent of the father and mother.

But I think that joe christian's opposition to them is that all abortion practitioners are actually voodoo witchdoctors, who prey on unsuspecting pregnant women who come to abortion clinics of their own free will. Then the doctors use their magical amulets to force those women into aborting fetuses, who somehow have have a religious belief system, despite only having possessed sensory perception for more than a few weeks, and even then only in the case of D and E abortions. Then the abortionists adorn themselves with pig's blood, dance around a fire and sing praise to their pagan ancestors. While smoking marijuana. And listening to Kenny G.

How much more evil can you get?[/quote]

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/malachi.jpg

sgtshortness · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 82

Uh... gruesome images do not make an argument? Because butchering cows might be gross, should we stop killing cows? And that's a third-trimester abortion. It's twenty inches; the average for a newborn child is twenty inches. Unless it was going to harm the mother's health, the abortion was illegal anyways.

Quote: It is important to identify those in society who are mainly responsible for the American Abortion Holocaust so that when reparations are demanded from those responsible for the savage butchery and slaughter of innocent Judeo-Christian babies in the US, we know precisely what religious or socio-political groups they were associated with.

Ah, I see... but aren't the women that get abortions responsible too? So shouldn't you also be targeting Christian women who get abortions?

Quote: We also know that most pro-abortionists who vote are members of the same Democratic Party which fought to uphold slavery during the Civil War.

The democratic party's (and also the republican party) view today is not the same as during the Civil War. The Civil War was nearly a hundred and fifty years ago.... of course their views changed.

It's like saying the Germans should be demonized because of what their grandparents/great-grandparents did in WWI/WWII.

By the way, it'd be nice if you didn't triple post.

Quote: Quote: Why is it nonsense? If anything the "atheistic and secular public schools" teach kids quite the opposite. Don't do drugs, don't have sex, don't hurt others, don't wear short skirts, pledge allegience to the flag: never once in my public education was I told, "people have the right to do what they want with their own bodies." I came to that conclusion on my own. It was is my moral and philosophical belief.

Obviously, your atheistic and secular education did you no good then.

I came to my pro-life view by myself. I guess it didn't do me any good.

Quote: Since none are affiliated or associated with any Jewish or Christian medical centers they are all atheistic and secular businesses which violate the 10th Commandment. That's why reputable medical doctors regard commercial abortionists as the scum of the medical profession.

Maybe I totally missed the evidence on this one or something, but could you please post a link or something to back this statement up?

Quote: Quote: omen make their own choice to get an abortion. Abortionists don't force themselves on anyone.

Abortionists intrude into the private lives of married people and their families just like adulterers, rapists and other house-breaking thieves do.

Well, adulterers, rapists, and house-breaking theives do not have any consent (well maybe adulterers) from the woman. Abortion practitioners do.

Quote: Quote: Roe v. Wade does not call for mandatory abortions. Pro-choice politicians do not track down pregnant women and forcibly abort them. Women go to the doctor of their own choice, ask for an abortion of their own choice, and abort their child of their own choice.

Doctor's don't have the right to kill the offspring of married men and woman without the fully informed consent of both parents.

Yes they do. If you mean they shouldn't have the right, than say so.

Quote: Doctors who do are called national secular (nazi) abortionists, and the justices who allow it are called national secular (nazi) judges.

So? Argumentum ad Hominem.

Quote: Quote: The women who went to the doctors to get those abortions are responsible.

No they are not. They are just like sheep led to the slaughter by politicians in sheep's clothing and humanist judges in black robes. Why blame millions of women for the American Abortion Holocaust when less than 750 abortion chambers are still in operation and the SCOTUS is still functioning.

Wait... so a woman goes to an abortion doctor, ASKS to get an abortion, and somehow she is.... not responsible for her actions? I guess she went without her own consent or will? ... what? Wrong. The woman getting the abortion is very responsible... for asking for it in the first place.

Unless you want to say that women are fools and don't know any better?

Quote: You don't blame women for getting raped, do you? I don't blame women for being victimized by atheistic and secular abortion pushers.

I don't blame women for getting raped because someone physically forced her. Abortion? Nope.

Quote: Quote: The only laws that actually stop you from doing anything are the laws of physics. All other laws are punitive.

The laws of physics can be rather punitive also especially if one wants to jump off the roof.

It's still your choice to jump off the roof.

Quote: Quote:
No law, physical, natural, social, political, or religious, forced a woman to get an abortion.

Most women get abortions because of the laws of economics, career concerns plus social and marital status.

They still could have chose not to?

Quote: Quote: Ultimately, the choice was her own to terminate the pregnancy.

The choice was the commercial abortionists also.

Exactly! It was both. Meaning both are responsible. I'm still not understanding why you seem only to attack the abortion practitioners and not the women, too.

Quote: Quote: It doesn't matter who is performing the abortions, period.

It doesn't matter to you, period. It matters to me, since I don't want only atheists and secularists blamed for the American Abortion Holocaust, but would like to see some religious folk implicated, if you are able to prove that there are any Christian abortionists. I know of three Jewish abortionists who killed Christian babies and of whom only one repented.

Uh... have you proved that there were only atheistic/secular/etc abortioners in practice? And wow... three Jewish abortionists! Such a large sample that accurately represents the rest of the abortion doctors.

Quote: Quote: Yes, they are culpable for what they have done because they choose to provide abortions.

Just like the nazis chose to provide gas chambers for Jews.

The Jews didn't knowingly enter the gas chambers with free will. They didn't know they were gas chambers. If they did, then it's the Jews' fault too for knowlingly entering a gas chamber. On the other hand, a woman knowingly goes into a doctor's office and knowingly gets an abortion and has the right to stop it at any time. Unlike the Jews did.

Quote: Quote: However, without women choosing to come to them to get abortions, they would never have provided a single one.

Without the SS choosing to round up the Jews, and IG Farben choosing to manufacture the gas, the nazis might never have gassed Jews in the concentration camps.

Well, in the SS choosing to round up the Jews, the Jews had pretty much no say in it. THe woman has a say in this. The Jews didn't go up to the Nazis and say, "hey, round me up and stick me in a gas chamber!" No, the Jews could not protect themselves from gassing to the extent that women can choose not to have abortions.

Quote: You don't seem to want to give American men any choice whether the US Abortion Holocaust shall continue as it is or not. All you go on harping about is the woman's right to choose whether to get her husband's kid aborted whether he likes it or not.

That's a sexist and bigoted POV.

Well, it's actually a little correct here when you remove all the insults. I have to agree with you here that a woman probaly shouldn't have total control over an abortion. However, giving a male control also give him pretty much total control if the woman wants an abortion. Until we can reach a compromise between these two extremes, I think the woman's right is greater (the lesser of two evils imo) because she bears the physical and usually the career-related consequences.

Prole · Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 2259 Location: Edinburgh

joe christian wrote: Prole wrote: Name one abortion center that affiliates themselves with atheism, joe christian. ONE.
Since none are affiliated or associated with any Jewish or Christian medical centers they are all atheistic and secular businesses...
Merely because one does not associate themselves with a particular religion does not mean they are atheistic; it means they are areligious. Furthermore, atheism itself is a religion, so saying that a corporation is atheistic despite not having any religious views is logical fallacy. Being secular and areligious is not synonymous with being atheistic.

Do you think America is atheistic? Do you think that the Miami Heat, an NBA basketball team, is atheistic? Do you think that Microsoft is atheistic? None of these have an official religious affiliation, but I'd safely guess that most people involved with these things are. Or is America an atheistic country?

joe christian wrote: ...which violate the 10th Commandment.
What exactly did they covet?

joe christian wrote: That's why reputable medical doctors regard commercial abortionists as the scum of the medical profession.
Is that why the majority of doctors are pro-choice?

sgtshortness wrote: The democratic party's (and also the republican party) view today is not the same as during the Civil War. The Civil War was nearly a hundred and fifty years ago.... of course their views changed.
Actually, sgtshortness, democrats are all evil half men, half bats who eat the souls of dead fetuses to allow them to live until 180. So yeah, they are still the exact same party. Sheesh. :roll:

Edited to fix quotes

The Central Scrutinizer · Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:46 am Post subject:

joe christian wrote: Prole wrote: Name one abortion center that affiliates themselves with atheism, joe christian. ONE.
Since none are affiliated or associated with any Jewish or Christian medical centers they are all atheistic and secular businesses which violate the 10th Commandment. That's why reputable medical doctors regard commercial abortionists as the scum of the medical profession.

I know for a fact that St. Luke's and Methodist Hospital in the Medical Center in Houston, Texas, staff a doctor who performs abortions. I think his name is Rosenfeld. I don't remember his name precisely, but if you want a link I'm sure I can find him.

Most hospitals have a doctor that performs abortions. Christian or not. Sorry.

The Central Scrutinizer · Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject:

joe christian wrote: The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Why is it nonsense? If anything the "atheistic and secular public schools" teach kids quite the opposite. Don't do drugs, don't have sex, don't hurt others, don't wear short skirts, pledge allegience to the flag: never once in my public education was I told, "people have the right to do what they want with their own bodies." I came to that conclusion on my own. It was is my moral and philosophical belief.
Obviously, your atheistic and secular education did you no good then.

So maybe my atheistic and secular education should have worked? You're a crack-up, buddy. :lol:

Quote: Quote: Can you give me a reason why people should not own their own bodies?
Sure. Human beings are not property and cannot sell their bodies.

This is a philosophical question and we won't get anywhere. You don't believe that people should have the right to do with their bodies as they choose. I do.

Quote:
Abortionists intrude into the private lives of married people and their families just like adulterers, rapists and other house-breaking thieves do.
Quote: Doctor's don't have the right to kill the offspring of married men and woman without the fully informed consent of both parents. Doctors who do are called national secular (nazi) abortionists, and the justices who allow it are called national secular (nazi) judges.
Quote: Of course it [the SCOTUS] is, just like it was responsible for black slavery before the Civil War, and was also responsible for segregation until the Civil Rights Act. The blood of 45 million aborted American babies is on their heads.
Quote: Of course the atheistic and secular politicians who win elections by championing abortion rights for women are responsible. The blood of 45 million aborted American babies is on their heads.
Quote: No they [the women] are not. They are just like sheep led to the slaughter by politicians in sheep's clothing and humanist judges in black robes. Why blame millions of women for the American Abortion Holocaust when less than 750 abortion chambers are still in operation and the SCOTUS is still functioning.
Quote: You don't blame women for getting raped, do you? I don't blame women for being victimized by atheistic and secular abortion pushers.

When a kid offers another kid a cigarette, and he takes it, who is responsible for the second kid smoking? The kid who smoked? The kid who pushed the cigarette on the other? RJR Nabisco? Congress, for taking tobacco bribes for decades? When someone drives drunk, is it the responsibility of the person who chose to drive, or is it the fault of Bacardi for making rum? Or Ford for making cars? When someone shoplifts a pair of jeans, is it the fault of the person who stole them? Or the fault of the store for stocking them in a place where they could be easily stolen? Or of the company for advertising the jeans, making them a national trend, and then charging outrageous prices? Now when a woman has an abortion, is it the fault of the woman for driving herself to the clinic, seeking the procedure, and signing off on it? Or the clinic for providing it? Or the condom companies, for making a product that is only 80% effective with normal use?

The kid decided to smoke, the drunk decided to drive, the thief decided to steal. The kid could have refused the cigarette. The drunk could have stayed at home, or not consumed alcohol at all. The thief could have not stolen the jeans. The woman could have kept her baby. Yes, the opportunity was provided by outside forces in all of these situations--peer pressure, availability, societal pressure--but the ultimate choice was up to the individual kid, drunk, thief, or woman.

Quote: I didn't say anything about "white" JC American men since black and Hispanic JC Americans are also fighting for JC in Iraq and the 10 Commandments apply to all men equally.

What does this matter? Truly?

Quote: Quote: I would bet my bottom dollar that somewhere in this country, today, a white Judeo-Christian American man is telling his sweetheart that he's not ready to be a daddy.
Rather cynical of you if a dollar is all you are willing to bet.

Heh. That's an expression common in english, meaning, "I would bet everything I have, down to my last dollar."

Quote: Quote: Yes, they are culpable for what they have done because they choose to provide abortions.
Just like the nazis chose to provide gas chambers for Jews.

I had to step away from my computer for five minutes after this little gem. You may be beyond reason. This is without a doubt, the most absolutely stupid thing I have ever heard in my entire life. You are at the top of a prestigious and hard-to-crack list, my friend. Congratulate yourself.

Women know what they are getting into. They choose to go to abortionists. Jews were forced to go to concentration camps. They did not know that they were going to shower in nerve gas, and if they did, few of them would have chosen to die in the gas chambers. We don't round up pregnant women and send them to "health spas" where we tell them they will get a full body massage and instead abort their fetuses.

Quote:
Without the SS choosing to round up the Jews, and IG Farben choosing to manufacture the gas, the nazis might never have gassed Jews in the concentration camps.

Then they would have shot them. What's your point? You're stretching this Nazi analogy past credulity.

Quote: You don't seem to want to give American men any choice whether the US Abortion Holocaust shall continue as it is or not. All you go on harping about is the woman's right to choose whether to get her husband's kid aborted whether he likes it or not.

That's a sexist and bigoted POV.

Husbands should be involved. But the fetus isn't in the man's body. Women, the ones who actually bear the children, must make the ultimate choice. Their men have input, but they cannot make the choice themselves.

joe christian · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 282

The Central Scrutinizer wrote: joe christian wrote: Prole wrote: Name one abortion center that affiliates themselves with atheism, joe christian. ONE.
Since none are affiliated or associated with any Jewish or Christian medical centers they are all atheistic and secular businesses which violate the 10th Commandment. That's why reputable medical doctors regard commercial abortionists as the scum of the medical profession.

I know for a fact that St. Luke's and Methodist Hospital in the Medical Center in Houston, Texas, staff a doctor who performs abortions. I think his name is Rosenfeld. I don't remember his name precisely, but if you want a link I'm sure I can find him.

Most hospitals have a doctor that performs abortions. Christian or not. Sorry.
Medical doctors may perform abortions in hospitals when they are medically necessary to save the woman's life. That is what hospitals and doctors are for. They do not perform abortions on demand if they are not medically necessary to save the patient from injury or death as a result of the pregancy.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

The Central Scrutinizer wrote: Quote: Quote: Yes, they are culpable for what they have done because they choose to provide abortions.
Just like the nazis chose to provide gas chambers for Jews.

I had to step away from my computer for five minutes after this little gem. You may be beyond reason. This is without a doubt, the most absolutely stupid thing I have ever heard in my entire life. You are at the top of a prestigious and hard-to-crack list, my friend. Congratulate yourself. It is the demonstration of Godwin's Law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

"There is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made the thread in which the comment was posted is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress."

spearsy23 · Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 5624 Location: Fulton, Ks

joe christian wrote: Prole wrote: sgtshortness wrote: I still don't get why it is significant that the majority of abortion practitioners are all/mostly atheists, humjanists, feminists, or secularists.
Quote: The majority of abortion practitioners and receivers in the US are Christian.
That's an obvious half-lie since no abortion provider has ever been identified as a practicing member of any Christian sect. Only atheistists and secularists perform abortions on Christian women, and only without the fully informed consent of the father and mother.

But I think that joe christian's opposition to them is that all abortion practitioners are actually voodoo witchdoctors, who prey on unsuspecting pregnant women who come to abortion clinics of their own free will. Then the doctors use their magical amulets to force those women into aborting fetuses, who somehow have have a religious belief system, despite only having possessed sensory perception for more than a few weeks, and even then only in the case of D and E abortions. Then the abortionists adorn themselves with pig's blood, dance around a fire and sing praise to their pagan ancestors. While smoking marijuana. And listening to Kenny G.

How much more evil can you get?

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/malachi.jpg

Trying to appeal to emotions? what an aborted fetus looks like is of no bearing to the discussion.
uh-oh open heart surgery better not be preformed anymore.

spearsy23 · Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 5624 Location: Fulton, Ks

joe christian wrote: The Central Scrutinizer wrote: joe christian wrote: Prole wrote: Name one abortion center that affiliates themselves with atheism, joe christian. ONE.
Since none are affiliated or associated with any Jewish or Christian medical centers they are all atheistic and secular businesses which violate the 10th Commandment. That's why reputable medical doctors regard commercial abortionists as the scum of the medical profession.

I know for a fact that St. Luke's and Methodist Hospital in the Medical Center in Houston, Texas, staff a doctor who performs abortions. I think his name is Rosenfeld. I don't remember his name precisely, but if you want a link I'm sure I can find him.

Most hospitals have a doctor that performs abortions. Christian or not. Sorry.
Medical doctors may perform abortions in hospitals when they are medically necessary to save the woman's life. That is what hospitals and doctors are for. They do not perform abortions on demand if they are not medically necessary to save the patient from injury or death as a result of the pregancy.

Sure they do, insurance companies just don't pay for it.

EDIT: the tenth commandment is "thall shall not covet what is thy neighbors" What do athiestic hospitals have to do with this?