Political Crossfire Forums

[joe christian]

Robodoon wrote: joe christian wrote: Religious Activists for Population Increase and Development

RAPID is a rapidly growing grassroots movement for the rapid increase and development of the Jewish, Christian and Islamic population in America.

We therefore denounce all medical doctors and medical organizations who perform abortions on Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and Muslim women without their being fully informed of the doctor's religion, religious affiliation or lack thereof, and their written consent acknowledging the religious identification of both the doctor, and the owners and operators of the abortion facility.

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[spearsy23]

joe christian wrote: The Underground wrote: joe christian wrote: sgtshortness wrote:
Er... a Judeo-Christian's baby can still turn out to be atheistic if that's its predestination.

That's true. The religious nature of the baby is whatever the mother and father say it is. If the mother is Jewish, the baby is Jewish, etc.

My mother is Christian, i'm athiestic blows a hole in that argument doesn't it.
Nope, because sqt and I already agreed on the possibilty of Christian babies becoming atheists when they grow up. Likewise, the babies of athiests sometimes grow up to be exemplary Christians.
But you said, "the religious nature of the baby is whatever the mother and father say it is." so my mother said i'm christian but i'm not. Therefore if i had been aborted it would not have been a christian baby but an athiest baby that was aborted. So we can conclude that my religious nature was not that of what my mother said.

Quote: All babies are created by God, nevertheless.
Proof? relevance?

[joe christian]

The Underground wrote: joe christian wrote: The Underground wrote: joe christian wrote: The religious nature of the baby is whatever the mother and father say it is. If the mother is Jewish, the baby is Jewish, etc.

My mother is Christian, i'm athiestic blows a hole in that argument doesn't it.
Nope, because sqt and I already agreed on the possibilty of Christian babies becoming atheists when they grow up. Likewise, the babies of athiests sometimes grow up to be exemplary Christians.
But you said, "the religious nature of the baby is whatever the mother and father say it is." so my mother said i'm christian but i'm not.
You were born a Christian but obviously have not been born-again.
Quote: Therefore if i had been aborted it would not have been a christian baby but an athiest baby that was aborted.
No, because you were baptized a Christian baby and didn't become an atheist until later in life.
Quote: So we can conclude that my religious nature was not that of what my mother said.
Your religious nature was that of a Christian when you were a baby in your mother's womb. Only later in life did you come to deny the theistic nature of life.

[sgtshortness]

Er... how are you born a Christian?

How does a fetus have religious nature when it doesn't have the capacity to understnad the concept of God?

[joe christian]

sgtshortness wrote: Er... how are you born a Christian?

How does a fetus have religious nature when it doesn't have the capacity to understnad the concept of God?
Same way a baby or fetus is born as an American even though it wouldn't know the president from the pope.

Christian babies are carried and borne by Christian mothers just as Jewish mothers carry and give birth to Jewish babies.

You are not much of a theologist or psychologist, are you?

[spearsy23]

joe christian wrote:
Same way a baby or fetus is born as an American even though it wouldn't know the president from the pope.
American is a nationality refering to the babies country of birth.

Quote: Christian babies are carried and borne by Christian mothers just as Jewish mothers carry and give birth to Jewish babies.
babies have no religious nature.

Quote: You are not much of a theologist or psychologist, are you?
theology the study of religions? what does this have to do with anything?

Psychologist, again relevance?

[Robodoon]

joe christian wrote: Religious Activists for Population Increase and Development

RAPID is a rapidly growing grassroots movement for the rapid increase and development of the Jewish, Christian and Islamic population in America.

We therefore denounce all medical doctors and medical organizations who perform abortions on Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and Muslim women without their being fully informed of the doctor's religion, religious affiliation or lack thereof, and their written consent acknowledging the religious identification of both the doctor, and the owners and operators of the abortion facility.

God told us to Multiply, the Elites tell us to die.

who should we follow? I think thats an easy one.

Lets follow our Creator, and tell the evil men of the earth to drop dead.

heck Hell is waiting for them, they have reservations...with no air conditioning.

[spearsy23]

Robodoon wrote: joe christian wrote: Religious Activists for Population Increase and Development

RAPID is a rapidly growing grassroots movement for the rapid increase and development of the Jewish, Christian and Islamic population in America.

We therefore denounce all medical doctors and medical organizations who perform abortions on Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and Muslim women without their being fully informed of the doctor's religion, religious affiliation or lack thereof, and their written consent acknowledging the religious identification of both the doctor, and the owners and operators of the abortion facility.

God told us to Multiply, the Elites tell us to die.

who should we follow? I think thats an easy one.

Lets follow our Creator, and tell the evil men of the earth to drop dead.

heck Hell is waiting for them, they have reservations...with no air conditioning.
I know what you mean brother, i'm so glad Zoot informed me of the invisible unicorns otherwise i might have been burning in thell with all the christians.

[Robodoon]

The Underground wrote: Robodoon wrote: joe christian wrote: Religious Activists for Population Increase and Development

RAPID is a rapidly growing grassroots movement for the rapid increase and development of the Jewish, Christian and Islamic population in America.

We therefore denounce all medical doctors and medical organizations who perform abortions on Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and Muslim women without their being fully informed of the doctor's religion, religious affiliation or lack thereof, and their written consent acknowledging the religious identification of both the doctor, and the owners and operators of the abortion facility.

God told us to Multiply, the Elites tell us to die.

who should we follow? I think thats an easy one.

Lets follow our Creator, and tell the evil men of the earth to drop dead.

heck Hell is waiting for them, they have reservations...with no air conditioning.
I know what you mean brother, i'm so glad Zoot informed me of the invisible unicorns otherwise i might have been burning in thell with all the christians.

Unicorns are Satanic, they are a mimic of the Phoenix

Both professing the same thing, “rebirth” “reincarnation” … the One they Mock is Jesus Christ.

God’s Son….who gives hope to the whole world

[mcmlv]

joe christian wrote: Religious Activists for Population Increase and Development

RAPID is a rapidly growing grassroots movement for the rapid increase and development of the Jewish, Christian and Islamic population in America.

We therefore denounce all medical doctors and medical organizations who perform abortions on Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and Muslim women without their being fully informed of the doctor's religion, religious affiliation or lack thereof, and their written consent acknowledging the religious identification of both the doctor, and the owners and operators of the abortion facility.

Although you ARE entitles to pursue and believe anything you want, it just seems to me that what you are putting forth is a total waste. I do not want to call it misguided, but it sure looks so. Abortion is undeniably a BAD thing, but splitting hairs about the faith of the performer and forms of consent is hardly accomplishing anything.
Women do not get dragged into clinics. The possibility does exist that they may not fully grasp what they are undertaking but that IS their failure just as much as the unwanted pregnancy. Yes the "father" should be also responsible, but I ask you where does that buck stop?
If you want to pursue the abortion issue along the lines of baby killing lines, I submit to you that the aborted fetus, baby, is just as dead when the abortion is performed by any variety of practitioner of any faith or lack of. Specific consent along lines of faith will hardly have any effect.
Now if you indeed would like to have a positive impact on the issue, regardless of your faith, why don't you focus your effort to prevent unwanted pregnancies, be that by promoting abstinence, birth control any any combination. It is clearly a win win situation.

[joe christian]

The Underground wrote: joe christian wrote:
Same way a baby or fetus is born as an American even though it wouldn't know the president from the pope.
American is a nationality refering to the babies country of birth.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam denote the religion of both the mother and her new-born child, since Christ was only born a Jew because his mother was.

You don't think that American homos were born queer, do you?

Quote: babies have no religious nature.
According to Nature's God in our Declaration of Independence, and our Judeo-Christian Congress in the USA, everything and everyone on earth has a religious nature. Even atheists like you who are born in the image and likeness of God have a religious nature, since atheism is a recognized religion in the US.

[joe christian]

Robodoon wrote: God told us to Multiply, the Elites tell us to die.

who should we follow? I think thats an easy one.

Lets follow our Creator, and tell the evil men of the earth to drop dead.

heck Hell is waiting for them, they have reservations...with no air conditioning.
Nicely phrased and to the point, Robodoon. Welcome to our Judeo-Christian Congress in the USA.

[joe christian]

mcmlv wrote: Abortion is undeniably a BAD thing, but splitting hairs about the faith of the performer and forms of consent is hardly accomplishing anything.
It points out the fact that abortion is a pagan enterprise imposed on a Judeo-Christian nation by an atheistic and secular SCOTUS, and practiced only by medical doctors who follow in the best tradition of Nazi doctors and medical butchers.
Quote: Women do not get dragged into clinics.
No, but the yet-to-be-born children of millions of Judeo-Christian American men are, while Judeo-Christian laws against abortion are suppressed at the same time.

Quote: The possibility does exist that they may not fully grasp what they are undertaking but that IS their failure just as much as the unwanted pregnancy.
You are blaming the Judeo-Christian victims of abortion rather than their secular oppressors who advocate the Devil's choice, unwittingly.

Quote: Yes the "father" should be also responsible, but I ask you where does that buck stop?
The buck stops by imposing Judeo-Christian laws against abortion on all Judeo-Christians in the country. Let secular men and women be bound by secular abortion laws, not Judeo-Christians without their informed consent.

Quote: If you want to pursue the abortion issue along the lines of baby killing lines, I submit to you that the aborted fetus, baby, is just as dead when the abortion is performed by any variety of practitioner of any faith or lack of.
No practitioner of Judeo-Christianity is performing medical abortions on Judeo-Christian women though. Only atheistic, feminist and secular abortionists are killing Judeo-Christian babies in their mother's wombs.

Quote: Specific consent along lines of faith will hardly have any effect.
Specific consent is the underlying principle of good government. Without the specific and written consent of Judeo-Christian fathers and mothers in the US, the secular government will collapse just like the Twin Towers did.

Quote: Now if you indeed would like to have a positive impact on the issue, regardless of your faith, why don't you focus your effort to prevent unwanted pregnancies, be that by promoting abstinence, birth control any any combination. It is clearly a win win situation.

Why don't you focus on that secular "win win situation," while we Judeo-Christians in the US re-establish Judeo-Christian Laws against atheists and secularists butchering and slaughering Judeo-Christian babies without their parent's consent.

[spearsy23]

Robodoon wrote: The Underground wrote: Robodoon wrote: joe christian wrote: Religious Activists for Population Increase and Development

RAPID is a rapidly growing grassroots movement for the rapid increase and development of the Jewish, Christian and Islamic population in America.

We therefore denounce all medical doctors and medical organizations who perform abortions on Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and Muslim women without their being fully informed of the doctor's religion, religious affiliation or lack thereof, and their written consent acknowledging the religious identification of both the doctor, and the owners and operators of the abortion facility.

God told us to Multiply, the Elites tell us to die.

who should we follow? I think thats an easy one.

Lets follow our Creator, and tell the evil men of the earth to drop dead.

heck Hell is waiting for them, they have reservations...with no air conditioning.
I know what you mean brother, i'm so glad Zoot informed me of the invisible unicorns otherwise i might have been burning in thell with all the christians.

Unicorns are Satanic, they are a mimic of the Phoenix

Both professing the same thing, “rebirth” “reincarnation” … the One they Mock is Jesus Christ.

God’s Son….who gives hope to the whole world
*GASP* You are so going to hell for that, you should watch your blaspheming mouth.

[spearsy23]

joe christian wrote: The Underground wrote: joe christian wrote:
Same way a baby or fetus is born as an American even though it wouldn't know the president from the pope.
American is a nationality refering to the babies country of birth.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam denote the religion of both the mother and her new-born child, since Christ was only born a Jew because his mother was.
you saying it doesn't make it any more true.

Quote: You don't think that American homos were born queer, do you?
totally irrelevant but while we're at it, you don't think bigots were born stupid do you?

Quote: babies have no religious nature.
According to Nature's God in our Declaration of Independence, and our Judeo-Christian Congress in the USA, everything and everyone on earth has a religious nature. Even atheists like you who are born in the image and likeness of God have a religious nature, since atheism is a recognized religion in the US.[/quote]

I reject atheism as a religion because religion denotes a belief in a supernatural power. I was born in the image and likeness of my parents, yes amazingly enough when two humans pro-create they have children that shockingly enough look like them.

[mcmlv]

joe christian wrote: mcmlv wrote: Abortion is undeniably a BAD thing, but splitting hairs about the faith of the performer and forms of consent is hardly accomplishing anything.
It points out the fact that abortion is a pagan enterprise imposed on a Judeo-Christian nation by an atheistic and secular SCOTUS, and practiced only by medical doctors who follow in the best tradition of Nazi doctors and medical butchers.
Quote: Women do not get dragged into clinics.
No, but the yet-to-be-born children of millions of Judeo-Christian American men are, while Judeo-Christian laws against abortion are suppressed at the same time.

Quote: The possibility does exist that they may not fully grasp what they are undertaking but that IS their failure just as much as the unwanted pregnancy.
You are blaming the Judeo-Christian victims of abortion rather than their secular oppressors who advocate the Devil's choice, unwittingly.

Quote: Yes the "father" should be also responsible, but I ask you where does that buck stop?
The buck stops by imposing Judeo-Christian laws against abortion on all Judeo-Christians in the country. Let secular men and women be bound by secular abortion laws, not Judeo-Christians without their informed consent.

Quote: If you want to pursue the abortion issue along the lines of baby killing lines, I submit to you that the aborted fetus, baby, is just as dead when the abortion is performed by any variety of practitioner of any faith or lack of.
No practitioner of Judeo-Christianity is performing medical abortions on Judeo-Christian women though. Only atheistic, feminist and secular abortionists are killing Judeo-Christian babies in their mother's wombs.

Quote: Specific consent along lines of faith will hardly have any effect.
Specific consent is the underlying principle of good government. Without the specific and written consent of Judeo-Christian fathers and mothers in the US, the secular government will collapse just like the Twin Towers did.

Quote: Now if you indeed would like to have a positive impact on the issue, regardless of your faith, why don't you focus your effort to prevent unwanted pregnancies, be that by promoting abstinence, birth control any any combination. It is clearly a win win situation.

Why don't you focus on that secular "win win situation," while we Judeo-Christians in the US re-establish Judeo-Christian Laws against atheists and secularists butchering and slaughering Judeo-Christian babies without their parent's consent.

All I can say is that it is painfully obvious that you are either choosing to be ignorant of the realities of life, or just prefer to argue pointless one sided propaganda. I would like to point out to you tho, that just because you think or believe something, it does not make it reality, on the contrary, it will lead you to disappointment, and the necessity to invent new arguments to support your unrealistic agenda.

[joe christian]

mcmlv wrote: All I can say is that it is painfully obvious that you are either choosing to be ignorant of the realities of life, or just prefer to argue pointless one sided propaganda.
If I chose to ignore the realities of life, I wouldn't be posting on this forum. Having rebutted your first point, your second point above is also refuted.

Quote: I would like to point out to you tho, that just because you think or believe something, it does not make it reality, on the contrary, it will lead you to disappointment, and the necessity to invent new arguments to support your unrealistic agenda.
Since the concept of reality is based upon what you think and believe about your perceptions and interpretations of it, arguments like yours fail to take into account the role which your own thoughts and beliefs play in creating your own personal and limited sense of reality.

Since one's concept of reality is fundamentally a religious belief, imposing your personal sense of reality on me is no different than my imposing my religious presuppositions and beliefs on you.

[joe christian]

The Underground wrote: I reject atheism as a religion because religion denotes a belief in a supernatural power.
If you reject all belief in the supernatural, you are rejecting your own supernatural powers of thought, reason, knowledge and belief.

Quote: I was born in the image and likeness of my parents, yes amazingly enough when two humans pro-create they have children that shockingly enough look like them.
By asserting that humans reproduce children in their own image and likeness, you are affirming the fact that humans are created in the same image and likeness of God which Adam and Eve were.

[spearsy23]

joe christian wrote: The Underground wrote: I reject atheism as a religion because religion denotes a belief in a supernatural power.
If you reject all belief in the supernatural, you are rejecting your own supernatural powers of thought, reason, knowledge and belief.
Let me rephrase, i reject religion because religion denotes a belief in a supernatural entity.

Quote: By asserting that humans reproduce children in their own image and likeness, you are affirming the fact that humans are created in the same image and likeness of God which Adam and Eve were.

In that case everyone would look the same.

[mcmlv]

joe christian wrote: mcmlv wrote: All I can say is that it is painfully obvious that you are either choosing to be ignorant of the realities of life, or just prefer to argue pointless one sided propaganda.
If I chose to ignore the realities of life, I wouldn't be posting on this forum. Having rebutted your first point, your second point above is also refuted.

Quote: I would like to point out to you tho, that just because you think or believe something, it does not make it reality, on the contrary, it will lead you to disappointment, and the necessity to invent new arguments to support your unrealistic agenda.
Since the concept of reality is based upon what you think and believe about your perceptions and interpretations of it, arguments like yours fail to take into account the role which your own thoughts and beliefs play in creating your own personal and limited sense of reality.

Since one's concept of reality is fundamentally a religious belief, imposing your personal sense of reality on me is no different than my imposing my religious presuppositions and beliefs on you.

I stand by what I said in the previous post.
By posting here or anywhere or by merely expressing your beliefs or views, you DO NOT support or deny your acceptance of reality. However some of your points clearly do. As such your counterargument is not valid.
It is you who puts forth that abortions are performed by atheists and so forth, but offer no support for the claim, thus making it totally baseless.

It is you who wants to impose your values and laws on society, a society clearly not just a Judeo-Christian society, by advocating strict Judeo-Christian laws.

So to sum it up it is you who choses to ignore the realities of life, it is you who choses to spew one sided propaganda instead of taking steps that will alleviate an existing problem, and it is you who tries to impose his view on others. I merely suggested a way to actually have a positive impact. Not the only way mind you but one way.